Crown

P14 info

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-geneva-motor-show/mclaren-p14-monocage-ii-revealed-ahead-geneva-debut

Wow, sweet. Looks like it will have the 570 GT storage space behind the seats too.

Wow 

Wonder what the torsional rigidity figures are like.. bet they're amazing too.

2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1

Best part of the 720S is that they finally got rid of the ugly joker face.........................

Whoopsy:

Best part of the 720S is that they finally got rid of the ugly joker face.........................

Yeah, didn't care for the old headlights either

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

I have a feeling this car is going to be really, really successful. Interior should be awesome too if what I've seen/heard is right.

The price point of the 720S should be right around F12, Aventador area. 

Compared to both, it's missing a V12. 

It will have a bigger trunk than the Lambo, but far short of the F12 in trunk space.

It should handle better than both and quicker too, but how fast can one go on the street?

F12 replacement is on the horizon, Ferrari already sent out invites to preview on Feb 13th.

Available of the car will be much better than Ferrari, basically there will be no wait like the Aventador, if someone wants one they can basically drive to the dealer and drive one out. 

It will have the same outrageous looks like a Aventador, those doors will be the selling feature.

But the elephant in the room will be once again will McLaren screw the owners. Their track record indicate that they have absolutely no problem screwing buyers on the resale value. McLaren's plan of releasing 15 'new' models between now and 2020 means they are pushing new facelifts very rapidly. It hasn't been announced yet, but one knows the spyder version will be coming once the orders start flowing in for the 720S coupe. A 'face lift' in 6 months' time? 

The 675 at least was a limited model, well until they sold out the 500 then push out another 500 spyder versions. The 720S will not be a limited production model, they will make as much as they can like they did with the 12C/650S.

Do you think the 720S will have any hybrid elements?

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Nope, no hybrid for 720S. All motor, well plus turbo. should be 4.0L V8.

Whoopsy:

Nope, no hybrid for 720S. All motor, well plus turbo. should be 4.0L V8.

Sounds good - any other big developments since the 675?

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

720s price will be nowhere near Aventador. Expect low 300s for a nice spec 720s, not low 400s.

Whoopsy:.

But the elephant in the room will be once again will McLaren screw the owners. Their track record indicate that they have absolutely no problem screwing buyers on the resale value. McLaren's plan of releasing 15 'new' models between now and 2020 means they are pushing new facelifts very rapidly. It hasn't been announced yet, but one knows the spyder version will be coming once the orders start flowing in for the 720S coupe. A 'face lift' in 6 months' time? 

 

I fully agree - this is a stupid anouncement for them to make... Their inflated model range will get even bigger in even bigger steps, it seems. At the same time the market is already flooded with 650s models and others. Very problemeatical. I would only consider a lease that leaves the substantial residue value risk with them...

Why do you guys keep saying that? They only did one early facelift. One! 12C -> 650S. That's all. Why do you guys act like they refresh their design every 6 months? It happened one time in the last 5 years and hasn't happened since.

Their 15 model range is no different than anyone else. Here, let me show you Lamborghini's model range from 2015 - 2020:

Huracan, Aventador SV, Aventador SV Roadster, Huracan Spyder, Huracan 580-2, Huracan 580-2 Spyder, Huracan SL, Huracan SL Spyder, Aventador S, Aventador S Roadster, Aventador S SV, Aventador S SV Roadster

That's 12 models by probably 2020 and with only 2 cars. Go one year back and you can add the LP720-4 special edition as well, and the roadster version of it.

Here is McLaren's:

570S, 540C, 570 GT, 570S Spider, 570 LT, 570LT Spider, maybe 570 GT LT, 720S, 720S Spider, 720S LT, 720S LT Spyder, and then probably some other model that hasn't been revealed yet, followed by the P1 replacement.

That is a totally normal model line up as far as exotics go. Coupe, convertible, GT3, GT3 convertible. 15 "versions" over 4-5 years for a manufacturer with 2-3 models is totally normal.

BTW, 570/540/GT residuals have been solid. The market isn't flooded with them and the prices are good. Most 1-year old cars are 20-30K under MSRP unless they had absurdly high MSRPs. The 12C/650S story is finished. It's pretty much out of production.

MKSGR:

Whoopsy:.

But the elephant in the room will be once again will McLaren screw the owners. Their track record indicate that they have absolutely no problem screwing buyers on the resale value. McLaren's plan of releasing 15 'new' models between now and 2020 means they are pushing new facelifts very rapidly. It hasn't been announced yet, but one knows the spyder version will be coming once the orders start flowing in for the 720S coupe. A 'face lift' in 6 months' time? 

 

I fully agree - this is a stupid anouncement for them to make... Their inflated model range will get even bigger in even bigger steps, it seems. At the same time the market is already flooded with 650s models and others. Very problemeatical. I would only consider a lease that leaves the substantial residue value risk with them...

Not all of those have to be "open" cars. Some could be limited like the BP23 or 688HS MSO.

noone1:

Why do you guys keep saying that? They only did one early facelift. One! 12C -> 650S. That's all. Why do you guys act like they refresh their design every 6 months? It happened one time in the last 5 years and hasn't happened since.

Their 15 model range is no different than anyone else. Here, let me show you Lamborghini's model range from 2015 - 2020:

Huracan, Aventador SV, Aventador SV Roadster, Huracan Spyder, Huracan 580-2, Huracan 580-2 Spyder, Huracan SL, Huracan SL Spyder, Aventador S, Aventador S Roadster, Aventador S SV, Aventador S SV Roadster

That's 12 models by probably 2020 and with only 2 cars. Go one year back and you can add the LP720-4 special edition as well, and the roadster version of it.

Here is McLaren's:

570S, 540C, 570 GT, 570S Spider, 570 LT, 570LT Spider, maybe 570 GT LT, 720S, 720S Spider, 720S LT, 720S LT Spyder, and then probably some other model that hasn't been revealed yet, followed by the P1 replacement.

That is a totally normal model line up as far as exotics go. Coupe, convertible, GT3, GT3 convertible. 15 "versions" over 4-5 years for a manufacturer with 2-3 models is totally normal.

BTW, 570/540/GT residuals have been solid. The market isn't flooded with them and the prices are good. Most 1-year old cars are 20-30K under MSRP unless they had absurdly high MSRPs. The 12C/650S story is finished. It's pretty much out of production.

should I even begin a few page of Porsche's line up just for 991/991.2.......  Lets all be fair here, Car maker are there to create product lines which makes them profitable.  That doesn't mean they are producing bad cars....  their target market is the world, so different demands required different product lines for its interest.  I must say all super series price drop fairy similar out of these car makers, and for such a new young company that is already doing very well should give some  .   but again if you had driven the 650S and 488 u would notice the difference is not the power, its the weight for 488, otherwise they would take the lead easily

One cannot compare the McLaren products with the 911s. They occupy a very different price point.

The 911 and variants start off low enough price wise and doesn't quite climb that high, the volume in that segment is very much bigger than the price segment McLaren is going for. At McLaren's price point, there aren't a lot of volume.

Look at Ferrari, even the 488 has only 2 versions, yet. California, one. F12, one. Basically 4 cars in that segment.

Lamborghini has a bit more, 3 versions of the Huracan and 2 for the upcoming Aventador S. 

One thing in common is that both Ferrari and Lamborghini don't call the variants 'new models'. They are just that, variants.

McLaren on the other hand call those models. the 540/570 series should be all played out already, you can only cut a mid engine car so many ways for entry level model and not crowding the upper models.

650 will be gone. In it's place will be the 720S. How can one split the P14 series 15 ways? Or perhaps 14, as one of those new models will be the 3 seater.

Where will the new sales come from? Ferrari people are mostly diehards, they wanted to stay in the brand to build up the relationship soothes get a shot at whatever limited models. So those couple thousand F12 sales a year are very safe. The 488 also, that's another few thousand locked in. Perhaps some might come from California owners but those buyers are newbie Ferrari owners anyway. Stealing from Lamborghini? Perhaps a few hundred, but people goes for the Lamborghini for the NA engines and the AWD, something McLaren cannot offer. That means at least another couple thousand buyers are sticking with Lamborghini. 

I was an McLaren owner, and I have a deposit on the the P14, but I simply cannot understand why McLaren fanboys are so sensitive to criticisms? It's almost like their only goal in life is to see McLaren come out on top no matter what. See Mycroft.

Do I defend Porsche blindly? No, I trash them if something is wrong, you guys all know about my 918 adventure. Do I blindly worship Ferrari? Nope, I trashed them too. McLaren got the same treatment from me, I will praise whatever is good and also pint out the short comings without reserve. As for Lamborghini, it is not without fault either, I believed I had mentioned about the non-existent head room in the Spyder with the top on. But the car itself is so far so good.

noone1:

570S, 540C, 570 GT, 570S Spider, 570 LT, 570LT Spider, maybe 570 GT LT, 720S, 720S Spider, 720S LT, 720S LT Spyder, and then probably some other model that hasn't been revealed yet, followed by the P1 replacement.
 

That is just 11 new cars though, even under the 570LT assumption....

I just pointed it out to you, so I'm not sure what you don't understand. You can easily create 15 models from 2-3 cars. Lamborghini will have 12-15 with just the Huracan and Aventador. I don't know why you make such a big deal out of semantics. 15 models means 15 versions means 15 trims means 15 whatever you want. From 2016 - 2021.

1. 570S
2. 540C
3. 570GT
4. 570S Spider
5. 540C Spider
6. 570LT
7. 570LT Spider
8. 720S
9. 720S Spider
10. 720S LT
11. 720S LT Spider
12. Limited 3-seater
13. P15
14. P15 Spider
15. P15 LT

Where will sales come from? They'll come from Ferrari. Lamborghini, Porsche, and R8 owners. For some reason you're making a weird assumption that exotic cars to buyers must be 1:1 and own that one car for 5 years. That's not the case at all. Crayphile buys a new car every 6 months. So do you. There are enough exotic buyers changing cars often enough to fill the demand. 

Your logic is bizarre. 

MKSGR:

noone1:

570S, 540C, 570 GT, 570S Spider, 570 LT, 570LT Spider, maybe 570 GT LT, 720S, 720S Spider, 720S LT, 720S LT Spyder, and then probably some other model that hasn't been revealed yet, followed by the P1 replacement.
 

That is just 11 new cars though, even under the 570LT assumption....

So add in the limited 3 seater, maybe some limited HS models, and the 570S replacement coupe. Now you have 15 new models by around 2020/2021, which is about 5 years from when they said that.

Versions and trims doesn't not equal models. Far from it. 

Porsche has 4 current models, Cayenne, Panamera, 911, 718.

Within each model they have variants/trims, like Cayenne S, Cayenne Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, etc.

noone1:

I just pointed it out to you, so I'm not sure what you don't understand. You can easily create 15 models from 2-3 cars. Lamborghini will have 12-15 with just the Huracan and Aventador. I don't know why you make such a big deal out of semantics. 15 models means 15 versions means 15 trims means 15 whatever you want. From 2016 - 2021.

1. 570S
2. 540C
3. 570GT
4. 570S Spider
5. 540C Spider
6. 570LT
7. 570LT Spider
8. 720S
9. 720S Spider
10. 720S LT
11. 720S LT Spider
12. Limited 3-seater
13. P15
14. P15 Spider
15. P15 LT

Where will sales come from? They'll come from Ferrari. Lamborghini, Porsche, and R8 owners. For some reason you're making a weird assumption that exotic cars to buyers must be 1:1. That's not the case at all. Crayphile buys a new car every 6 months. So do you. There are enough exotic buyers changing cars often enough to fill the demand. 

Your logic is bizarre. 

Looking at your list, don't you feel it is bizarre to have so many cars from a very small new producer with a limited customer base and market? I certainly feel so. This will get very risky for McLaren - the next down-cycle is already ahead...

Whoopsy:

Versions and trims doesn't not equal models. Far from it. 

Porsche has 4 current models, Cayenne, Panamera, 911, 718.

Within each model they have variants/trims, like Cayenne S, Cayenne Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, etc.

 

 

Again, who gives a shit? A car is a car is a car.

So for McLaren, the 540/570 will be one model, the 720S will be another. the 3 seater is another.

noone1:

Whoopsy:

Versions and trims doesn't not equal models. Far from it. 

Porsche has 4 current models, Cayenne, Panamera, 911, 718.

Within each model they have variants/trims, like Cayenne S, Cayenne Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, etc.

 

 

Again, who gives a shit? A car is a car is a car.

Everyone gives a shit except you and other McLaren fanboys.

Maybe McLaren likes to call their variants 'models' but that's not how the whole industry and the rest of the world outside of McLaren do it.

MKSGR:

noone1:

I just pointed it out to you, so I'm not sure what you don't understand. You can easily create 15 models from 2-3 cars. Lamborghini will have 12-15 with just the Huracan and Aventador. I don't know why you make such a big deal out of semantics. 15 models means 15 versions means 15 trims means 15 whatever you want. From 2016 - 2021.

1. 570S
2. 540C
3. 570GT
4. 570S Spider
5. 540C Spider
6. 570LT
7. 570LT Spider
8. 720S
9. 720S Spider
10. 720S LT
11. 720S LT Spider
12. Limited 3-seater
13. P15
14. P15 Spider
15. P15 LT

Where will sales come from? They'll come from Ferrari. Lamborghini, Porsche, and R8 owners. For some reason you're making a weird assumption that exotic cars to buyers must be 1:1. That's not the case at all. Crayphile buys a new car every 6 months. So do you. There are enough exotic buyers changing cars often enough to fill the demand. 

Your logic is bizarre. 

Looking at your list, don't you feel it is bizarre to have so many cars from a very small new producer with a limited customer base and market? I certainly feel so. This will get very risky for McLaren - the next down-cycle is already ahead...

No. Lamborghini sells 3000-3500 cars a year. McLaren is already selling probably 2500-3000 now that the 570S is out. There are more than enough customers to satisfy all brands because people often buy multiple cars and hop to whatever is the flavor of the week. Just a run-down of Lamborghini, btw.

1. Aventador
2. Aventador Roadster
3. Aventador 720-4
4. Aventador 720-4 Roadster
5. Aventador $4M car
6. Huracan
7. Aventador SV
8. Avenatdor SV Roadtser
9. Huracan Spyder
10. Huracan 580-2
11. Huracan 580-2 Spyder
12. Centario
13. Aventador S
14. Huracan SL
15. Aventador S Roadster
16. Huracan SL Spyder

Whoopsy:

noone1:

Whoopsy:

Versions and trims doesn't not equal models. Far from it. 

Porsche has 4 current models, Cayenne, Panamera, 911, 718.

Within each model they have variants/trims, like Cayenne S, Cayenne Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, etc.

 

 

Again, who gives a shit? A car is a car is a car.

 

Everyone gives a shit except you and other McLaren fanboys.

Maybe McLaren likes to call their variants 'models' but that's not how the whole industry and the rest of the world outside of McLaren do it.

How about we take a poll whether or not it matters what you call your cars? We'll see if Rennteam cares if Porsche calls their GT3.2 a variant, a model, or a trim. I'm pretty sure no one ordering a GT3.2 gives a shit what anyone calls it other than a 911 GT3.

noone1:

Whoopsy:

noone1:

Whoopsy:

Versions and trims doesn't not equal models. Far from it. 

Porsche has 4 current models, Cayenne, Panamera, 911, 718.

Within each model they have variants/trims, like Cayenne S, Cayenne Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, etc.

 

 

Again, who gives a shit? A car is a car is a car.

 

Everyone gives a shit except you and other McLaren fanboys.

Maybe McLaren likes to call their variants 'models' but that's not how the whole industry and the rest of the world outside of McLaren do it.

How about we take a poll whether or not it matters what you call your cars? We'll see if Rennteam cares if Porsche calls their GT3.2 a variant, a model, or a trim. I'm pretty sure no one ordering a GT3.2 gives a shit what anyone calls it other than a 911 GT3.

Sure, let's agree on that and you go ahead and start the poll, I don't mind. I basically know who will vote what. Everyone knows GT3 is a variant of the 911 model range.

A dog is a dog, calling a dog a horse doesn't means it magically turns into a horse. Nor put it on a pedestal tomato it taller. People can still see it's a dog. Well perhaps not all, the blinds probably can't see the lie and babies probably can't tell the difference. 

Almost seems to me you are turning into a Mycroft. 

--

Please explain to the forum why it matters what they call their different cars. Are trims lower performance than models? Are models slower than variants? It's a car. You either want one or you don't. That's all there is to it.

If we started calling tomatoes dog shit, would you think it's gross to eat a tomato all of a sudden? Would you not have bought your Huracan Spyder if they called it the Huracan convertible?

noone1:

Please explain to the forum why it matters what they call their different cars. Are trims lower performance than models? Are models slower than variants? It's a car. You either want one or you don't. That's all there is to it.

If we started calling tomatoes dog shit, would you think it's gross to eat a tomato all of a sudden? Would you not have bought your Huracan Spyder if they called it the Huracan convertible?

God help you if you can't tell the difference between models and variants.

A 911 is a model. Within that model range there is  C2, C2S, C2 convertible, Turbo, etc. 

McLaren name it a bit differently. Their 'models' consists of the sports series, the super series and the ultimate series.

Within the sports series, there is the 540, 570 variants with coupe and spyders and GT.

Within the super series, the 720S will first come in coupe form then later on spyder. 

How the hell can McLaren have 15 'models' coming by 2020?

They gonna have the kitchen series, the living room series, the toilet series, the doghouse series, etc???

Plus,strictly speaking, McLaren ever only had one 'model', everything is based off the 12C platform and can be considered variants. They all have the same engine layout and wheelbase.

Porsche's 911 is also a 'platform' strictly speaking. It ranged from the C2 all the way to GT2RS. The body in white could be different, especially in width and fender openings, with roof or without, but the wheelbase stayed the same and so is the engine location. 

And btw, yes I will not eat tomato anyway, I think it tasted like shit.

As for the Huracan, I wanted to by the open top variant, and whatever they called the variant doesn't matter, it's the topless variant. Not a different model. Giving it different name doesn't make it a different model, it's still a variant.

The biggest difference, of course, is that there are many thousand 911 customers (new and used) whereas you have  to fight hard to find a buyer for a McLaren (new or used). This might change over the next decade of course but will require time. Today the McLaren is still a niche product.