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    Dec 26, 2005 4:53:40 PM

    OCEAN
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    Used prices coming down



    Many used low milage 997's with asking prices under 70k and I guess some of these will go for as low as 65k if the person needs to sell fast . These people must be losing 15 to 20K in very little time . For people who are looking at new Boxsters and Caymans seems like to get a low milage 997 used would be a much better deal as the original owner has taken the big hit and now they can scoop up a much better car for the same or less money .

    Dec 26, 2005 5:28:42 PM

    JakeGt2
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    Reply to: OCEAN

    Re: Used prices coming down

    yes sir.....I would think you are crazy to get a new Gayman oops I mean Cayman over one like this

    Dec 26, 2005 5:59:16 PM

    OCEAN
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    Reply to: JakeGt2

    Re: Used prices coming down

    Porsche in the money hungry mode they are now may have made a mistake trying to put a model in between the Boster and the 997 . I can not imagine a person buying the Cayman with so little difference in the price of the basic 997 and if that is to much there are going to be a huge 997 used market in the next 6 months to a year , and the price of one of those will be less than the Cayman . They better keep the used 997's on a different lot from the Caymans or they may have some problems .

    Dec 26, 2005 7:10:10 PM

    connoisseur
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    Reply to: OCEAN

    Re: Used prices coming down

    Remember it is all in what you want. When the 997 was introduced all US dealers were shipped seal grey with black interiors. You can find those literally by the dozen as well as silver with black interiors. But if you want something more personalized with specific colors and options then you have no choice but to order. And those individuals who have ordered exactly what they want will likely keep the vehicle for several years.

    Dec 26, 2005 7:31:38 PM

    maoun
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    maoun
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    Reply to: connoisseur

    Re: Used prices coming down

    i live in los angeles. where are you guys finding these used C2S's at good prices. a seal grey with black interior would be great.

    thanks

    Dec 26, 2005 7:55:07 PM

    greggr107
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    Reply to: maoun

    Re: Used prices coming down

    Exactly... a nicely optioned Cayman and you are in a 997.. was talking to my dealer at length about it, and although he agrees the Cayman is a good car, tighter than the Boxster, there's no question what car he would choose. So I'm still wondering who the market is going to be.. I saw a Cayman S, and honestly thought it was a Boxster at first glance sitting on the showroom floor. Now the Panamera, that's another story... I think I will be drooling for one of those for my family..

    Dec 26, 2005 8:39:00 PM

    OCEAN
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    Reply to: greggr107

    Re: Used prices coming down

    I feel sorry for the guy who is fooled into paying 65 - 75 for the Cayman ( and that is what it will be with the right options out the door ) at 50 it was the right car for the right price but Porsche blew it with the pricing here ... By the time it is out in full swing used 997's will be in the low 60's and they will be all over the place .

    Here are 3 more all well optioned cars some with next to no miles and they could all be had for well under 70K and again by the time the Cayman is really out and avalable the same kinds of 997's will be under 65K with very little miles if you look around .

    http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?rd...ist=1195#vdptop

    http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ca...amp;cardist=622

    http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ca...mp;cardist=1214

    You should look at the Cayman everything is an option on top of the 60K even little things like Automatic Climate Control

    Dec 26, 2005 9:20:20 PM

    964C2
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    Reply to: OCEAN

    Re: Used prices coming down

    Don't overlook the fact that there are buyers who are not attracted to the "uniqueness" of a 911 and would prefer a mid-engined sportscar that is a coupe. Think of the Cayman as the German "NSX".

    Dec 26, 2005 9:28:58 PM

    greggr107
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    Reply to: OCEAN

    Re: Used prices coming down

    Quote:
    OCEAN said:
    You should look at the Cayman everything is an option on top of the 60K even little things like Automatic Climate Control



    True, a new take on the term 'corporate greed'... other than the 'S' package, every little option (most of which should be standard on a $100K car) is extra.. even on Chevy Tahoes and other vehicles, they offer several 'multi' packages, where you pay a few thousand and get sought after options, for a somewhat reasonable price. Porsche's philosophy is annoying, they are so deft at digging into our pockets

    Dec 26, 2005 9:36:46 PM

    964C2
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    Reply to: greggr107

    Re: Used prices coming down

    Quote:
    greggr107 said:
    Quote:
    OCEAN said:
    You should look at the Cayman everything is an option on top of the 60K even little things like Automatic Climate Control



    True, a new take on the term 'corporate greed'... other than the 'S' package, every little option (most of which should be standard on a $100K car) is extra.. even on Chevy Tahoes and other vehicles, they offer several 'multi' packages, where you pay a few thousand and get sought after options, for a somewhat reasonable price. Porsche's philosophy is annoying, they are so deft at digging into our pockets


    But which car do you want, a 911 or a Tahoe.....?

    Dec 26, 2005 9:39:11 PM

    cwb
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    Reply to: greggr107

    Re: Used prices coming down

    With all the used 997s now and coming next year, I would expect discounts to start increasing on the new ones.

    Dec 26, 2005 9:58:49 PM

    greggr107
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    Reply to: 964C2

    Re: Used prices coming down

    Quote:
    964C2 said:
    Quote:
    greggr107 said:
    Quote:
    OCEAN said:
    You should look at the Cayman everything is an option on top of the 60K even little things like Automatic Climate Control



    True, a new take on the term 'corporate greed'... other than the 'S' package, every little option (most of which should be standard on a $100K car) is extra.. even on Chevy Tahoes and other vehicles, they offer several 'multi' packages, where you pay a few thousand and get sought after options, for a somewhat reasonable price. Porsche's philosophy is annoying, they are so deft at digging into our pockets


    But which car do you want, a 911 or a Tahoe.....?


    Haha I've got both.. I was pointing out that the philosophy is different, there are a handful of major packages (i.e, LT trim, interior entertainment, etc), which are bundled, not sold individually.. if you look at the cost of a Tahoe relative to the cost of a 997, of course you would expect the 997 options to be more $$.. it's funny how Porsche does.. 'door finishers in leather', 'leather wrapped steering column', and 'interior light leather wrapped'! They have us right where they want us..

    Dec 26, 2005 10:14:08 PM

    bstew
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    Reply to: OCEAN

    Re: Used prices coming down

    Quote:
    OCEAN said:
    [Many used low milage 997's with asking prices under 70k and I guess some of these will go for as low as 65k if the person needs to sell fast . These people must be losing 15 to 20K in very little time . For people who are looking at new Boxsters and Caymans seems like to get a low milage 997 used would be a much better deal as the original owner has taken the big hit and now they can scoop up a much better car for the same or less money .



    This isn't just Porsche. All cars lose money in the first year or two. You can go on any lot and buy a 1 or 2 year old car and save thousands. Go on Ebay and look at 1 year old BMWs, MB, Corvettes, Porsche, etc. This is where the deals are.

    Dec 26, 2005 10:15:22 PM

    moto Offline
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    Reply to: greggr107

    Re: Used prices coming down

    70K USD!!?
    A similar specimen would cost about 70k GBP over here in the UK (from an OPC)!!!
    NO FAIR!!!

    Dec 27, 2005 12:53:34 AM

    Flashman
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    Reply to: OCEAN

    Re: Used prices coming down

    Bit of a bargain if you ask me compared to anything else for that kind of money. Cayman looks nice, but its get a little close to a used 997 - no brainer decision then.

    All cars are going to take a hit in the first few years, and Porsche are better than most at the higher end of the motoring scale. Anyone who buys a car like the 997, if they have some common sense, will factor in the used value when they come to sell and look at the difference as cost of ownership. Ive always done well with every car that Ive owned, especially the porsches - my 1994 993 lost only 5k after Id owned it from new for a year and then traded it in (I wanted to buy a car for the track which was more race-car raw than the 993).

    Dec 27, 2005 2:02:17 AM

    U Boat Commander
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    Reply to: Flashman

    Re: Used prices coming down

    I've seen the Cayman at my dealer but haven't actually seen one on the road here in Los Angeles, where we have more Porsches per capita than probably any other city in the world (I'm guessing on this but it would be interesting to know as a side note). Has anybody actually seen a Cayman on the road in their town?

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Cayman is destined to be the next (overpriced) 968 -- only 5,000 made in four years and then discontinued.

    Dec 27, 2005 7:09:06 AM

    WBH
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    Reply to: U Boat Commander

    Re: Used prices coming down

    Quote:
    U Boat Commander said:
    I've seen the Cayman at my dealer but haven't actually seen one on the road here in Los Angeles, where we have more Porsches per capita than probably any other city in the world (I'm guessing on this but it would be interesting to know as a side note). Has anybody actually seen a Cayman on the road in their town?

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Cayman is destined to be the next (overpriced) 968 -- only 5,000 made in four years and then discontinued.



    Haven't seen Gayman on road in SF...only in dealer showrooms...

    Doubt LA sells most new P's per capita of any region, esp if one focuses on sales of $100K+ P's.....at least in new F's, LA and SF are similar-sized mkts...but LA is 3X population of SF, so LA's a relative dwarf on per capita basis....and there aren't too many googles/yahoos/ebays, etc etc being founded in LA region, so SF will prob eclipse LA mkt in next 2-3 yrs on an absolute size basis as well....

    As one LA Merc dealer once explained it...LA is land where every secretary and wannabe will stretch to drive a used C-Class/3-series/Boxster, but real question is which cities can easily sell large vols of new 55/65/Turbos/F (esp 12 cyls), esp to guys who can casually write a check for a new $150K+ car on a boring Sat afternoon....and maybe buy a Boxster-ish car as a gift for their kids' "excellent" au pair....

    Dec 27, 2005 7:23:04 AM

    bluelines
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    Reply to: WBH

    Re: Used prices coming down

    I've seen a Cayman on the road... next to 3 Carreras. It was shivering with fear.

    Zürich has got it's fair share of Carreras and Cayennes too, just like LA.

    Dec 27, 2005 8:22:11 AM

    dhayek Offline
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    Reply to: bluelines

    Re: Used prices coming down

    even tough i have driven the cayman and liked its drive , i still think its a ripoff , loose the convertible ,pay more than a boxster s for 15hp...am i missing something?

    Dec 27, 2005 9:35:03 AM

    OCEAN
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    Reply to: dhayek

    Re: Used prices coming down

    Can you find one person that is buying one and excited about it .. I can not , Porsche must know they are in trouble with this car .

    Dec 27, 2005 10:13:30 AM

    Fast Fred
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    Reply to: OCEAN

    Re: Used prices coming down

    Quote:
    OCEAN said:
    Can you find one person that is buying one and excited about it .. I can not , Porsche must know they are in trouble with this car .



    I can't believe how persistent you are in critising the Cayman

    What you are talking about is true however. But ! A used Cayman will (off course !) also be a lot cheaper and THEN it'll be a bargain...

    You could also compare a used 996 TT to a new 997 S : some people would say you're a fool in buying the new one in stead of the TT.


    It's all about what you want : if you find your choice in the 997 used cars market : good for you.

    If you prefer a new car which answers your specific desires, but a 997 is out of budget : cayman is an option.


    (by the way : I'm a 996 4S owner)

    Dec 27, 2005 11:39:09 AM

    RCA
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    Reply to: 964C2

    Re: Used prices coming down

    Quote:
    964C2 said:
    Think of the Cayman as the German "NSX".



    Oh boy, Porsche marketing did a great job, Kudos to them.

    Dec 27, 2005 11:52:11 AM

    easy_rider911
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Used prices coming down

    I've seen plenty of Caymans at my dealer. However, for the first time, I saw a silver one on the road. Driven by a balding guy in his early 40s. I tried so hard not to think this but I just couldn't help it.....all I could think was...so he couldn't afford a 911. I'm sorry. I shouldn't think like that but I just couldn't help it.

    Dec 27, 2005 12:39:46 PM

    Prashan
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: Used prices coming down

    UK prices are holding reasonably well, although I've seen a few C2S with 4k miles for about Pounds62k - Pounds8k below list.
    Prashan

    Dec 27, 2005 1:18:44 PM

    OCEAN
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    Reply to: Prashan

    Re: Used prices coming down

    The difference between the Cayman and 997 is 12k about the amount that a 997 loses when it gets driven off the show room floor and has a few thousand miles on it . Do not think in the history of Porsche they ever had two different models produced at the same time that were so close in price , they were always careful to keep the 911 in a different price range than other models . It seems like a low milage 997 in the states is one of the best car bargains going right now , what car comes close for between 65 -70 K .

    Dec 27, 2005 2:35:07 PM

    Trundle_GT3
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    Reply to: OCEAN

    Re: Used prices coming down

    You will not be seeing a Cayman on the road in the US before the middle of January. The release date for sale is the 14th of January.
    The marketing machine at work to create buzz and not spoil it's North American debut at the LA Auto Show.

    Dec 27, 2005 7:56:11 PM

    bstew
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    Reply to: OCEAN

    Re: Used prices coming down

    Quote:
    OCEAN said:
    Can you find one person that is buying one and excited about it .. I can not , Porsche must know they are in trouble with this car .



    You are joking right?

    Dec 27, 2005 8:00:23 PM

    throt
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    Reply to: bstew

    Re: Used prices coming down

    Quote:
    bstew said:
    Quote:
    OCEAN said:
    Can you find one person that is buying one and excited about it .. I can not , Porsche must know they are in trouble with this car .



    You are joking right?



    Oceans pulling our plonkers , his got one on order...

    throt ..

    Dec 28, 2005 4:21:46 AM

    turbokuo
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    Reply to: WBH

    Re: Used prices coming down

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Quote:
    U Boat Commander said:
    I've seen the Cayman at my dealer but haven't actually seen one on the road here in Los Angeles, where we have more Porsches per capita than probably any other city in the world (I'm guessing on this but it would be interesting to know as a side note). Has anybody actually seen a Cayman on the road in their town?

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Cayman is destined to be the next (overpriced) 968 -- only 5,000 made in four years and then discontinued.



    Haven't seen Gayman on road in SF...only in dealer showrooms...

    Doubt LA sells most new P's per capita of any region, esp if one focuses on sales of $100K+ P's.....at least in new F's, LA and SF are similar-sized mkts...but LA is 3X population of SF, so LA's a relative dwarf on per capita basis....and there aren't too many googles/yahoos/ebays, etc etc being founded in LA region, so SF will prob eclipse LA mkt in next 2-3 yrs on an absolute size basis as well....




    I don't think so. For every techie you have we have 5 actors in syndication.

    Dec 28, 2005 4:34:08 AM

    Deven
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    Reply to: throt

    Re: Used prices coming down

    Actually I do not think that the used prices are really that low. Consider a sticker of 69K (2005). Add maybe 7-8K options, and you are in the 77K range (average). Factor a 4-5% discount (which is a 3-4K off on a new 2006). Therefore you get a new 2006 997 for about 75K (included 2 K for price increase in 2006). That means that the used 997 has been discounted about 10% in one year. For a car in a limited niche that is just amazing that it has held value so well. A real drop in price will mean that the 997 drops 20% in one year (so a good deal will be under 60K for a 1 year old car). I can tell you now, that will never happen.
     
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