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    Dec 26, 2005 10:46:05 PM

    tkids
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    tkids
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    Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    I am ordering a C4 and have the option of sticking with the Standard Suspension or paying for the PASM. I am really on the "Bubble" with my decision with all the different opinions from posts I have viewed and the few articles that addressed the PASM.

    If you had the choice would you take it or leave it. Looking for all you "S" owners input and any people out there with the Standard Suspension(do you wish you had it?).

    Will be driving in 4 season weather.
    Going with the 18 inch wheels.

    I have driven both with 19s. Noticed PASM took out little bumps better than the Standard Suspension, but never got to really drive it in any sporty manner like I needed.

    I need some some help.

    Dec 27, 2005 12:07:46 AM

    doc2s
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    Reply to: tkids

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    go with pasm its benefits overweighs its drawbacks.

    Dec 27, 2005 12:31:46 AM

    bstew
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    Reply to: doc2s

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    I would go with pasm if the cost is not a major issue.

    Dec 27, 2005 12:35:38 AM

    bluelines
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    Reply to: bstew

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    That is a nice little poem:

    Holy Cow!
    ...PASM or not?!
    With all the posts,
    ...I don't know?

    Dec 27, 2005 12:39:26 AM

    Flashman
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    Flashman
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    Reply to: tkids

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    Shame you cant get the -20mm option instead! Get the PASM if in doubt. It certainly "smooths" out the ride when your not in the mood to hammer along.

    Dec 27, 2005 1:02:31 AM

    U Boat Commander
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    Reply to: Flashman

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    If I were a younger guy that didn't mind the bumps all over the place, I would say forget the PASM. But as an older guy, I kind of like the fact that the comfort mode is available when I don't want a bumpy ride (which it turns out is most of the time), with the caveat that the sport mode is a compromise and not all it's cracked up to be. I don't see how one can drive in sport mode all the time since the front end hop can be too severe. In short, for me, the benefits of PASM outweigh the negatives. But you gotta drive both and see what you think for you.

    Dec 27, 2005 1:07:30 AM

    U Boat Commander
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    Reply to: U Boat Commander

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    One question, why go with 18" wheels? The 19"s are great and look great as well to help fill out the wheel wells. I think you will ultimately be disappointed with the 18"s. Seems like an inexpensive no-brainer.

    Dec 27, 2005 1:19:47 AM

    tkids
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    Reply to: U Boat Commander

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    Quote:
    [ But you gotta drive both and see what you think for you.



    I have driven both, but it is really hard to tell with the sales rep sitting next to you watching the Tach (stay under 4000rpm) with their little "Test Drive" loop.

    Dec 27, 2005 1:23:25 AM

    tkids
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    Reply to: U Boat Commander

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    Quote:
    U Boat Commander said:
    One question, why go with 18" wheels? The 19"s are great and look great as well to help fill out the wheel wells. I think you will ultimately be disappointed with the 18"s. Seems like an inexpensive no-brainer.



    I decided to go with the 18s due to the rough roads up in Lake Tahoe. I do certainly like the look of the 19s, they look great in everyway, but roads are certainly just plain bad

    Dec 27, 2005 1:52:04 AM

    U Boat Commander
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    Reply to: tkids

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    Ah, you're in Tahoe! I know the roads up there well. Now the 18" C4 setup makes sense. Definately go with the PASM up there. No doubt about it.

    Dec 27, 2005 1:58:30 AM

    JMShrink
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    Reply to: tkids

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    I chose to stick with the base suspension on my recent order for a 997 C2 with 19s. I figured with the PASM, I'd probably just leave it in the comfort mode and not even bother with the sport mode(don't plan on going to a racetrack). I really don't think the base suspension with the 19s is harsh, but I'm sure others will disagree. I think the base suspension has a good blend of comfort/sportiness for me.

    Dec 27, 2005 2:25:58 AM

    tkids
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    tkids
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    Reply to: JMShrink

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    That is exactly my logic when thinking to stay with the standard suspension. I don't see myself using the "Sport" mode too often, however when I test drove both, I did notice that PASM took out some "Washboard" ripples in the road that standard setup did not.

    I am now starting to think PASM might just help out more than standard suspension on snow covered roads.

    Quote:
    JMShrink said:
    I chose to stick with the base suspension on my recent order for a 997 C2 with 19s. I figured with the PASM, I'd probably just leave it in the comfort mode and not even bother with the sport mode(don't plan on going to a racetrack). I really don't think the base suspension with the 19s is harsh, but I'm sure others will disagree. I think the base suspension has a good blend of comfort/sportiness for me.

    Dec 27, 2005 2:37:34 AM

    JMShrink
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    Reply to: tkids

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    I'm debating about using my 911 during the winter, leaning toward it though. If so, I plan to have a set of winter tires with 18" wheels(which should help with comfort some)for the winter and use the 19s the rest of the year.

    Dec 27, 2005 3:02:41 AM

    tkids
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    Reply to: JMShrink

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    Winter set for sure!

    Dec 27, 2005 3:36:53 AM

    MMD
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    Reply to: U Boat Commander

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't kno

    Now, the excitement is a bit lower with my 997S, as far as PASM is concerned all I got was a button which makes the roads I travel on much rougher. Q: Who buys wheels and tires for looks? A: People who have perfect roads. Everybody else is a slave to fashion.

    Dec 27, 2005 4:41:12 AM

    DavidSF
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    Reply to: tkids

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    I've heard of an "issue" with the 2005 997S with PASM. apparently the car can "lurch" unexpectedly mid-turn. According to the latest Excellence magazine this may have been fixed in the 2006 997S.

    Dec 27, 2005 4:55:25 AM

    U Boat Commander
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    Reply to: tkids

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    Quote:

    That is exactly my logic when thinking to stay with the standard suspension. I don't see myself using the "Sport" mode too often, however when I test drove both, I did notice that PASM took out some "Washboard" ripples in the road that standard setup did not.

    I am now starting to think PASM might just help out more than standard suspension on snow covered roads.





    The PASM will definately smooth out your ride. As to helping the ride on snow, I have no idea.

    Dec 27, 2005 8:29:08 AM

    dhayek Offline
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    Reply to: U Boat Commander

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    too expensive for what it is ,forget it IMO

    Dec 27, 2005 8:58:40 AM

    easy_rider911
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    Reply to: dhayek

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    For a 997 C4, I wouldn't get PASM. As far as my understanding goes, the best suspension set up is the -20mm sports suspension which is unfortunately not available in the USA. After that, I believe the next best set up is the standard suspension set up on the 997 C2 and 997 C4. I think PASM comes last.

    Why do I think this? Well, I think PASM in normal mode is just too soft. Good for bumpy roads but not relatively speaking as good for precise, sporty driving. Chris Harris wrote an excellent article in GT Purely Porsche some months back saying the same thing.

    PASM in sport mode is just way too stiff for ordinary use. The standard set up and the -20mm are in the middle with the -20mm consistently stiffer than the standard one.

    I've attached a graph to explain it...

    Dec 27, 2005 9:56:03 AM

    RCA
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    Reply to: tkids

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    Why not upgrade to the C4S, which would also include PASM? Otherwise, PASM is definetely worth it. With one exception though: if you're planning to seriously track race your car, the standard suspension may be better because it would be easier to get a decent coilover kit for your car without PASM.

    Dec 27, 2005 10:09:55 AM

    dhayek Offline
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    christian , tkids is asking wether it worth spending 2000usd or no ,you came up with a nice solution of 20,000usd...

    Dec 27, 2005 2:46:14 PM

    Trundle_GT3
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    Reply to: dhayek

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    In the US when buying an "S" you do not have a suspension option.
    PASM is standard!

    Dec 27, 2005 6:35:03 PM

    excmag
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    Reply to: JMShrink

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    As noted above, U.S. 997S buyers don't get a choice.

    For U.S. 997 3.6s, then:

    PASM
    PROS: Lower ride height (better looks), better comfort in Normal, more sportiness for track days in Sport.
    CONS: The "movement" WE have experienced in early PASM 997s (may now be gone), Sport is too stiff for most situations, but does seem to mellow if you leave it that mode for a while on a rough road. Or maybe YOU get used to IT?

    Non-PASM (standard suspension):
    PROS: More clearance for driveways, etc. Strikes a VERY nice balance between sport and comfort - might be best standard 911 chassis of all time. It's a great chassis, one that I prefer for backroad driving pleasure over PASM hands down. And, for track guys, no-brainer replacement with coil-overs.
    CONS: Not as comfortable over the road as PASM in Normal, high ride height and -- for those who care -- not as good looking.

    It's a HARD choice. How you drive and your thresholds for clearance and comfort -- as well as future plans for the car -- should be your guide....

    pete

    Dec 27, 2005 6:36:42 PM

    tkids
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    tkids
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    Thanks so much for the info. By chance do you have a copy or link to Chris Harris' article?

    Dec 27, 2005 6:40:02 PM

    tkids
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    tkids
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    Reply to: excmag

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    Thanks alot Pete. Like the Pros and Cons. It is the way I am thinking and it is nice to see someone else write it down.

    Dec 27, 2005 7:06:06 PM

    KiwiCanuck
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    Reply to: DavidSF

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    Hello DavidSF,

    You said: "I've heard of an "issue" with the 2005 997S with PASM. apparently the car can "lurch" unexpectedly mid-turn. According to the latest Excellence magazine this may have been fixed in the 2006 997S."

    There is thread near here starting "Rear bushings ----PASM----', filled with comments on this, including memos from Pete of EXCELLENCE. Suggest you read that ---also an older thread, starting "Characteristics ----- PASM-----" on the previors page, filled with comments on PASM behaviour ---also suggested reading ---please!

    Buy the 18in with PASM --- your conditions are like mine.
    Cheers

    KiwiCannuck

    Dec 27, 2005 7:25:34 PM

    KiwiCanuck
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    Reply to: U Boat Commander

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    Hello U Boat Coammander,

    You said:"19in look great as well to help fill out the wheel wells. I think you will ultimately be disappointed with the 18"s. Seems like an inexpensive no-brainer."

    Now------ I have heard these words often ----"fill-out the wheel wells" How? The overall diameter of the 18 with higher profile tires(more compliant and feedback-rich) is almost identical to the 19in with low profile rubber bands, They have to be as they are optionals on the Carerra. That car rides a little high (+10mm) compared to the S, and the wells are not 'filled' by 18 or 19in. Another minor advantage of the PASM (-10mm).

    While the 19in has track-day advantages, otherwise the choice provides harsher rides (all the testers and I agree), and modest visual evidence of a larger 'wheel' only.

    More important than size is the design of the wheel. Last night I cleaned and polished my summer wheels for spring --- crazy, but the days ARE getiing longer as of dec 22nd or so. I had the 997 18in fronts *classic* (standard whatevers), sitting beside the same size tires (yes!)from my Acura TL (summer sports, 18in, Enkei). The latter design looked MUCH larger, as the spokes run right to the rim, whereas the Porsche design ends early into a larger/broader rim section. I also have a set of 18in BBS GT-RS for the Carrera, for my summer tires (I like that design, which is like some other Porsche wheels (GT-3) , but that only come in 19s), and they ALSO look larger than the standard Classic design.

    The Carerra with the BBS look great ---

    But anyway ------- 18in, providing the ride height is good (PASM height is fine), and the design is good (actually the standard Classics are great, but the BBS greater), are a great size of TIRE! So much for "filling the wheel well"----

    Cheers


    KiwiCannuck

    Dec 28, 2005 2:32:12 AM

    U Boat Commander
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    Reply to: KiwiCanuck

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    KiwiCanuck: I haven't measured the diameter of the 19s vs. the 18s with higher profile tires. But I can see that they are bigger without measuring. If I am wrong, then I have chosen the wrong "rubber bands". Personally, I don't find the ride with my 19s to be hard at all on PASM comfort mode. Of course it's hard on sport mode but I don't think having 18s would remedy that in any meaningful way. In the end, I think it's just personal preference. I like the look of the 19s (and so does everyone else who's seen my 997S) and I don't find the ride harsh.

    Dec 28, 2005 7:23:10 PM

    stork
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    I live in the US so 20 mm not even an option. There are only 3 options in the US: non-PASM only on non-S, PASM option on C2 or C4, and PASM stansrd on S. In addition, the Cab PASM setting are softer than coupe PASM settings. There are some after market options also available. When someone presents a graph and say that the regular PASM setting is to soft for precise driving and only good for bumpy roads. Furthermore, he said the Sport setting on PASM is to hard for "regular driving." Yes, exactly!!! I thought that is why they have the two setting in a SPORTS CAR!!! Regular for bumpy and uneven roads and sports for sports car driving. It is a sports car and sometimes the bumpy roads are so bad that the sports setting makes the ride unstable . There is even some automatic correction in these settings. I went for C4s (it has PASM) for real world driving in the US.

    Dec 28, 2005 9:19:13 PM

    philippe911
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    Reply to: U Boat Commander

    Re: Holy Cow! PASM or not?! With all the posts, I don't know?

    no doubt pasm is the better in confort and sport for a road use the -20 mm sport suspesion is only for track fanatic and with 18 in is a oposition.

    philippe911
    997S tiptronic
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