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Dec 23, 2005 11:19:49 AM
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Nick_Athens
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- Loc: Greece , Greece
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- Reply to: willial
Dec 23, 2005 11:46:38 AM
- willial
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- Loc: London , United Kingdom
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- Reply to: Nick_Athens
Re: Paddle shift on 997TT
Well, I'm finding that an automatic suits the roads better in the UK now as there's so much traffic ! But seriously, the car journalists say that DSG is better than even the best manual because of the speed of the change and controllability. I must try one so that I know what I'm talking about !
Dec 23, 2005 3:06:15 PM
- 69bossnine
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- Reply to: AS
Re: Paddle shift on 997TT
Quote:
AS said:
most members of this board are prob aware of the pros & cons of manuals/semi-autos. simply put, i think all will agree that manuals are more engaging but slightly slower; semi-autos on the other hand, are faster but more clinical.
those living in crowded cities will obviously hv diff requirements fm those w/twisty roads at their doorstep (you won't be doing much heel/toeing in NYC grid + traffic). likewise, those who only use their cars for competitive racing will prob lean towards whatever performs best. each to his/her own... no point polarizing this topic.
as for 'bad analogies' - does power steering not assist steering in the same manner semi-autos assist gear changes (you'd still hv to hit up/downshift btns b/f anything happens)? does ABS not assist braking? you could try to replicate that w/yr foot of course. & don't forget PSM... the biggest nanny of all... attempts to keep the entire car fm doing what it wants to do. how are these analogies bad or irrelvant?!
At the risk of again, getting lost in semantics, I say "bullsh**" to the notion that semi-autos simply "assist" in gear changes. NO NO NO, they don't "assist", they accomplish the entire task once you push a button.
A vacuum cleaner assists you in cleaning the floor easier and better than a broom
A maid cleans the floor FOR you, at your prompting, whenever you request it to be cleaned.
The vacuum still requires that you do the work. The maid only requires that you make the request (and pay her of course).
Power steering is like a vacuum, technology making a job easier, but if you don't still take the helm and go through the chore, it will just lay there motionless.
Semi-autos are like a maid, technology doing ALL the work, at your bequest, with you sitting in your comfy chair with your control-panel, dinging the bells and barking the orders.. "Oh Jeeves, ding-ding-ding, serve me up a silky rev-matched downshift, will you? Good man..Jolly, jolly good...."
If you still had to push the clutch, but the pressure plate was power-assisted (there are power-hydraulic clutch-release systems), THEN, you'd have yourself an analogy with power steering. But I'm throwing up the BS flag on the assertion that F1 trannies are just an "assistance" similar to ABS or power steering. If it makes you FEEL better believing otherwise, then, whatever.. I'm just asking for some honesty, some testimony, a confession..
"Lord, I like my car to shift for me. I LIKE IT!!"
It's o.k. guys, you can say it. Come clean, you'll feel better...
"Hello, my name is 69bossnine, and I'm a shift-aholic..."
And man oh man, is it a sad day when we're on a Porsche forum, supposedly a bunch of driving fanatics from all different walks of life, wondering how we didn't kill ourselves before the advent of ABS...LOL!!!! How did our parents do it??? Modulating brakes manually from high speeds?? That's just CRAZY!!
Geez, some of you fellas have been driving this top-notch equipment for too long, you really need to come see me, and have some fun getting crude and prehistoric in some lowly and unworthy American-made dinosaurs!!. We'll go for a ride in a 1950's land barge that weighs 6,000 pounds, with 4-wheel drum brakes, and skinny bias-ply tires to haul it down to a stop!! Any sports car with strong 4-wheel disc brakes and good tires is a BREEZE to haul down from speed, ABS or not. It's all in your perspective. And good lord, some of the early ABS cars were over-compensating death-traps, in my humble opinion.
Anyhow, old-schoolers like Sterling Moss and Hurley Haywood would be rolling on the floor laughing....or maybe crying...
Dec 23, 2005 5:02:05 PM
- AS
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- Reply to: 69bossnine
Re: Paddle shift on 997TT
sorry 69bossnine, i hv no idea what you're going on abt (maids & all). my pt is - you turn the steering wheel, the electronics turn the wheel for you. same goes for e-gas - step on the throttle, well... you're not really stepping on the throttle. so you change gears on a semi-auto, but you're not really doing it. same difference if you catch my drift?!
so you don't like semi-autos, i've no problem with that. fact is, i like manuals too (as i've mentioned b/f), so what exactly are you trying to get at??
so you don't like semi-autos, i've no problem with that. fact is, i like manuals too (as i've mentioned b/f), so what exactly are you trying to get at??
Dec 23, 2005 5:42:49 PM
- zoltan
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- Reply to: 69bossnine
Re: Paddle shift on 997TT
Quote:
AS said:
sorry 69bossnine, i hv no idea what you're going on abt (maids & all). my pt is - you turn the steering wheel, the electronics turn the wheel for you. same goes for e-gas - step on the throttle, well... you're not really stepping on the throttle. so you change gears on a semi-auto, but you're not really doing it. same difference if you catch my drift?!
so you don't like semi-autos, i've no problem with that. fact is, i like manuals too (as i've mentioned b/f), so what exactly are you trying to get at??
Quote:
"Oh Jeeves, ding-ding-ding, serve me up a silky rev-matched downshift, will you? Good man..Jolly, jolly good...."
I don't see where he wasn't clear enough about this. Look at it this way: when you're turning the steering wheel with power steering, you're doing exactly the same thing as with a non-assisted steering rack, except that the hydraulics help you take some of the load off (physically easier). When you press the brakes, you're still doing the same thing, ABS or not - you're pressing a pedal to stop the car. The only difference is, that the system will help you unlock the wheels, should you overdo it. Now the sequential gearbox... Where should I begin? Tell me, WITHOUT going into the technological differences... How's shifting with the steering wheel handles on the F1 Ferrari 430 any different than using the steering wheel buttons on a Tiptronic 911 Turbo? You press a button and the car does it for you. So are you telling me that the Tip is an assisted manual?
Dec 23, 2005 6:11:53 PM
- 69bossnine
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- Reply to: Crash
Re: Paddle shift on 997TT
I'm still proudest of my trained goat in the lap scenario.... 
Hey, if you want to extrapolate on this notion that F1 is almost like manual shifting, I guess that as long as there are clutches still disengaging and engaging, and gears being switched by something, and fuel and air being supplied and modulated by something, and the wheels being turned by something, and pistons still churning.....
That you can run the car with a remote control from your front porch, and you can call it "driving".
Anyhow, enough arguing for me, I am hereby signing off for Christmas! Happy Holidays to all!!!!
Hey, if you want to extrapolate on this notion that F1 is almost like manual shifting, I guess that as long as there are clutches still disengaging and engaging, and gears being switched by something, and fuel and air being supplied and modulated by something, and the wheels being turned by something, and pistons still churning.....
That you can run the car with a remote control from your front porch, and you can call it "driving".
Anyhow, enough arguing for me, I am hereby signing off for Christmas! Happy Holidays to all!!!!
Dec 23, 2005 10:12:54 PM
- fritz
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- Reply to: 69bossnine
Re: Paddle shift on 997TT
Quote:
69bossnine said:
"Hello, my name is 69bossnine, and I'm a shift-aholic..."
Hmmm, that gave me an idea. We could start our own rennteam branch of Shift-aholics Anonymous. We should have plenty of members, none of whom want to be cured.
Quote:
69bossnine said:
And man oh man, is it a sad day when we're on a Porsche forum, supposedly a bunch of driving fanatics from all different walks of life, wondering how we didn't kill ourselves before the advent of ABS...LOL!!!! How did our parents do it??? Modulating brakes manually from high speeds?? That's just CRAZY!!
ABS! My first car was one year younger than I was. I was glad if the brakes worked at all.
Taught me a lot about anticipating problems while driving, instead of relying on technology to get me out of any problems I might cause myself!
Re: Paddle shift on 997TT
Quote:
Crash said:
How's shifting with the steering wheel handles on the F1 Ferrari 430 any different than using the steering wheel buttons on a Tiptronic 911 Turbo? You press a button and the car does it for you. So are you telling me that the Tip is an assisted manual?
tip's obsolete technology (as far as sports cars go). compared to manual &/or semi-autos, they're slower, less involving, imprecise & thus less predictable b/c of the torque converter. so to yr pt., the mechanics are different so not really comparable.
they're smoother of course / makes a good sedan tranny.
Re: Paddle shift on 997TT
Quote:
AS said:Quote:
Crash said:
How's shifting with the steering wheel handles on the F1 Ferrari 430 any different than using the steering wheel buttons on a Tiptronic 911 Turbo? You press a button and the car does it for you. So are you telling me that the Tip is an assisted manual?
tip's obsolete technology (as far as sports cars go). compared to manual &/or semi-autos, they're slower, less involving, imprecise & thus less predictable b/c of the torque converter. so to yr pt., the mechanics are different so not really comparable.
they're smoother of course / makes a good sedan tranny.
I said, technology differences notwithstanding. In the end you still perform the same action, whether it be with a Tip or an SMG/F1.
Merry Christmas to all!!!
Re: Paddle shift on 997TT
Quote:
CF said:
PDK will be an absolute must have option for all you guys once you've tried it.
I have no doubts about it. But for the time being I still like my manual (perhaps you're right and DSG will truly impress me) transmission. Why not just add an optional clutch pedal for the times you want to drive manually to the DSG?
Re: Paddle shift on 997TT
Quote:
CF said:
PDK will be an absolute must have option for all you guys once you've tried it.
Of course the big question is when will the Porsche Doppel Kupplung tranny come out? At launch next spring, as an option on the baseTT by 2007, or with the TTS release-assuming that comes out in 2007 or 2008? I'm already leaning towards holding onto my 996TSCab with its 6-speed manual, and adding the 997TT, and if a PDK is superior to a manual on the 997TT, then, well, will I swallow hard and go with the PDK? I wonder if the 997TT could be my gadget car-every option in the Porsche directory requested?
Re: Paddle shift on 997TT
Quote:
AS said:
PDK/DSG actually pre-selects the next gear (to allow it to shift quickly). but b/c of this, not sure if engineers would be able to allow a manual clutch override. really would be the best scenario if possible though...
Yeah. If they could do something like that, the manual 6-speed would be as good as gone.
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