Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT - Page3

Dec 22, 2005 8:13:28 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: Nick_Athens

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Aisxos, this is the problem with Porsche charging extra for being able to access the brief periods of overboost.

1. Its designed into the powerplant and its controls in the first place. So its no extra cost for Porsche to include it anyway. And they will use the overboost performance numbers to market the cars power output and accelleration times.

2. It would be like BMW saying that their new 500hp M5 costs
79,000 dollars. But unless you give them more money they will not give you the full power it has in it already.

Its the principle of it all.

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Dec 22, 2005 8:24:35 PM

OCEAN: Expert; Loc: US; Posts: 1334, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 28, 2004; Reply to: Nick_Athens

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Aisxos if you will have a 430 Spider on April 06 I would not loose any sleep over how the 997TT will end up .

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Dec 22, 2005 8:36:36 PM

Nick_Athens: Senior; Loc: Greece , Greece; Posts: 710, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2004; Reply to: OCEAN

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Quote:
OCEAN said:
Aisxos if you will have a 430 Spider on April 06 I would not loose any sleep over how the 997TT will end up .

you are right Ocean but this will be my first Ferrari.. Porsche was all these years my passion. I dont know yet if 430 will let me drive as aggreesive as i have learnt all these years with different models of porsche. For this reason i am planning to buy both cars..

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Dec 22, 2005 8:50:39 PM

OCEAN: Expert; Loc: US; Posts: 1334, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 28, 2004; Reply to: Nick_Athens

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Aisxos have you driven a 430 ? Should be great having both they are really two completely different cars . If you can keep both I imagine you will but if it comes down to only keeping one I bet you will choose the 430 no matter what the 997TT HP is .

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Dec 22, 2005 9:09:41 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Its disgustingly greedy, arrogant and very revealing about the mindset of Porsche management for them to charge customers additional money for that.

Jim, it is almost funny watching you get apoplectic about the greed of Porsche's management based on your interpretation of a very sketchy rumor. That Nick should join in to add credibility

to your rant is only to be expected.

Will you have another rant about their unreliability and duplicity if the rumor proves to be unfounded somewhere down the road, or are you just counting on no-one remembering this thread?

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Dec 22, 2005 9:13:14 PM

amjf088: Co-Pilot; Loc: Toronto, Canada , Canada; Posts: 256, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 6, 2005; Reply to: OCEAN

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Well, it's up to Porsche to offer what they want and price "options" as they see fit. No one's holding a gun to your head. If you don't like it, don't buy it!

Hate to say it, but differentiated pricing (or price discrimination, what this actually is) is a valid economic tool. If you want it, buy it, but don't cry about it, Porsche does not "owe" it to us. Our power as consumers is our choice to buy or not buy. If you feel the offering is not worth the dollars, then don't spend...

It's like charging all those ridiculous dollars for painted interior trim. Yes, it is outrageous, but it is entirely our choice.

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Dec 22, 2005 9:21:35 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: amjf088

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Ok. Sorry for the rant, view it as entertainment!

But......the idea of the Turbo being turned into a options platform for gimmicky gadget marketing just turns my stomach. The car is just too classy to have Nissan like options.

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Dec 22, 2005 9:23:06 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: amjf088

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Quote:
amjf088 said:
Well, it's up to Porsche to offer what they want and price "options" as they see fit. No one's holding a gun to your head. If you don't like it, don't buy it!

Hate to say it, but differentiated pricing (or price discrimination, what this actually is) is a valid economic tool. If you want it, buy it, but don't cry about it, Porsche does not "owe" it to us. Our power as consumers is our choice to buy or not buy. If you feel the offering is not worth the dollars, then don't spend...

It's like charging all those ridiculous dollars for painted interior trim. Yes, it is outrageous, but it is entirely our choice.

I'm sure there's a point in there somewhere

, but please, let's be serious. I have to pay Porsche to provide the overboost feature? A 20.000 Euro Ford Focus has it, but I have to pay extra to get it? Let me be clear. The 911 Turbo is supposed to be the ULTIMATE Porsche has to offer, with the possibility of the Turbo S coming in a few years' time, but it seems (if the rumor is true) what Porsche has done is they took the Turbo, stripped it bare and now the base Turbo is going to be some kind of entry level car, on which you'll have to pay extra for a simple ECU feature and pay through the nose to get to the Turbo S, which will be the true performer. Now, I've been looking at the TTS from the beginning, but it's the principle of it all that bothers me. I am absolutely convinced that our "base" $130.000+ 997TT will be destroyed by the $65.000 C6 Z06. Why couldn't they just launch the car they've dubbed the Turbo S as the base Turbo and the powerkit TTS as the Turbo S? I'm not expecting them to be economic morons, but the company is basing its image on heritage, which involves us enthusiasts, not some Wall street broker who is willing to pay through the nose just to get the newest and hottest on the market.

Nick, it seems as you might actually be proven right.

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Dec 22, 2005 9:24:38 PM

Nick_Athens: Senior; Loc: Greece , Greece; Posts: 710, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2004; Reply to: OCEAN

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Quote:
OCEAN said:
Aisxos have you driven a 430 ? Should be great having both they are really two completely different cars . If you can keep both I imagine you will but if it comes down to only keeping one I bet you will choose the 430 no matter what the 997TT HP is .

No i have only driven Modenas. which i liked but not much.
i am planning to have both cars in my garage. I was ready to buy a Gt2 MK1 instead of the new 997tt but a friend stopped me and told me that i will do the dumbest thing.
he may be right.

now i am planning to buy the 997tt and make it as fast i can with racing seats PCCB sport suspension and roll bar.
When i receive my F430 i will tell you exactly if you are right or not..

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Dec 22, 2005 9:25:15 PM

CF: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Florida , United States; Posts: 1113, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 30, 2003; Reply to: OCEAN

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

I don't think there's something wrong with this feature, many of us would gladly pay extra for a 997 Turbo S.
Extracting more power for the 997 Turbo S is nothing more than an ECU Mod and maybe some cosmetic exhaust pipes.
And for that most of you are willing to pay.

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Dec 22, 2005 9:27:04 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: fritz

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Its disgustingly greedy, arrogant and very revealing about the mindset of Porsche management for them to charge customers additional money for that.

Jim, it is almost funny watching you get apoplectic about the greed of Porsche's management based on your interpretation of a very sketchy rumor. That Nick should join in to add credibility to your rant is only to be expected.

Will you have another rant about their unreliability and duplicity if the rumor proves to be unfounded somewhere down the road, or are you just counting on no-one remembering this thread?

fritz, his rant, while perhaps over the top, is valid. If the rumor proves to be true, it just shows that Porsche are not Porsche as we knew it anymore.

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Dec 22, 2005 9:28:28 PM

OCEAN: Expert; Loc: US; Posts: 1334, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 28, 2004; Reply to: CF

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Quote:
I don't think there's something wrong with this feature, many of us would gladly pay extra for a 997 Turbo S.
Extracting more power for the 997 Turbo S is nothing more than an ECU Mod and maybe some cosmetic exhaust pipes.
And for that most of you are willing to pay.

yea no problem ..... but make it an option the day the 997TT comes out not 6 months or a year later where you must sell the TT you just got and loose all that $$ in depreciation .

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Dec 22, 2005 9:31:36 PM

Nick_Athens: Senior; Loc: Greece , Greece; Posts: 710, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2004; Reply to: CF

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Quote:
CF said:
I don't think there's something wrong with this feature, many of us would gladly pay extra for a 997 Turbo S.
Extracting more power for the 997 Turbo S is nothing more than an ECU Mod and maybe some cosmetic exhaust pipes.
And for that most of you are

I totaly agree.. sorry guys but you are going to give about 150.000euros to buy the new 997turbo. all this conversation is for the 1000 euros more??!?! which these 1000 euros includes and the very nice chrono clock ?!

SO WHAT?

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Dec 22, 2005 9:34:15 PM

Nick_Athens: Senior; Loc: Greece , Greece; Posts: 710, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2004; Reply to: OCEAN

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Quote:
OCEAN said:

Quote:
I don't think there's something wrong with this feature, many of us would gladly pay extra for a 997 Turbo S.
Extracting more power for the 997 Turbo S is nothing more than an ECU Mod and maybe some cosmetic exhaust pipes.
And for that most of you are willing to pay.

yea no problem ..... but make it an option the day the 997TT comes out not 6 months or a year later where you must sell the TT you just got and loose all that $$ in depreciation .

THIS IS AN OTHER PROBLEM WHICH I TOTALY AGREE TOO. Am i an [censored] which i cant order this car or this package from now ?! IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME WITH THE DSG (if they dont place it from the begining)

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Dec 22, 2005 9:57:01 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: Crash

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Quote:
Crash said:
fritz, his rant, while perhaps over the top, is valid. If the rumor proves to be true, it just shows that Porsche are not Porsche as we knew it anymore.

Crash, the point of my post was that Jim's rant would only be valid IF the rumor proved to be true, and as yet it is not even really a RUMOR, because - from what i remember - the wording of "the Stuttgarter's" post was not exactly clear on this point.
And now we already have somebody apparently putting a price of 1000 Euro on this option in this thread, based on this vague rumor. As I said, this is almost funny.

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Dec 22, 2005 10:05:28 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Ok. Sorry for the rant, view it as entertainment!

But......the idea of the Turbo being turned into a options platform for gimmicky gadget marketing just turns my stomach. The car is just too classy to have Nissan like options.

I don't agree. I love gadgets. I always loved gadgets. And my house is full of gadgets. So why shouldn't I have these toys in my car?

If you're looking for the old classic 911...time has moved on. Chrono Sport was just the beginning, PASM an even more extreme option in my opinion.
This is the way it works: you can't turn back the time and to be honest, I actually don't want it.

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Dec 22, 2005 10:08:47 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: fritz

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
Crash said:
fritz, his rant, while perhaps over the top, is valid. If the rumor proves to be true, it just shows that Porsche are not Porsche as we knew it anymore.

Crash, the point of my post was that Jim's rant would only be valid IF the rumor proved to be true, and as yet it is not even really a RUMOR, because - from what i remember - the wording of "the Stuttgarter's" post was not exactly clear on this point.
And now we already have somebody apparently putting a price of 1000 Euro on this option in this thread, based on this vague rumor. As I said, this is almost funny.

Fritz just about 80% of all forum sites exist on rumor and conjecture. If we were restricted to discussing only factual matters, the board would have little if any participation.

Loosen your tie and unbutton your suit jacket and get with the flow. Being high strung makes life very dull. Though you may love Porsche cars, do not turn into one if your not one already.

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Dec 22, 2005 10:10:08 PM

amjf088: Co-Pilot; Loc: Toronto, Canada , Canada; Posts: 256, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 6, 2005; Reply to: fritz

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Fritz,

You're bang on. It doesn't take much to get some people equating Porsche to greedy pirates. It's like there's a bunch of folk just waiting to jump on this stuff.

They (Porsche) will introduce a car. It will have certain performance capabilities in stock trim, with possible available enhancements. Everyone should just compare the car to whatever competition they are considering (Z06, F430 etc.) and then decide if it's worth it. If, after paying all the rip-off money for the options one wants, the car still looks like a reasonable deal, then great. Otherwise, buy the competition. Its so easy.

But let's wait until we actually know how the car really is!

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Dec 22, 2005 10:10:16 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: fritz

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Quote:
fritz said:
Crash, the point of my post was that Jim's rant would only be valid IF the rumor proved to be true, and as yet it is not even really a RUMOR, because - from what i remember - the wording of "the Stuttgarter's" post was not exactly clear on this point.
And now we already have somebody apparently putting a price of 1000 Euro on this option in this thread, based on this vague rumor. As I said, this is almost funny.

fritz, we try hard to post rumors as rumors but no matter what I or the other mods are saying, no matter if we're using the word rumor twice or even more times in a single post, people seem to take those rumors for a fact and start to discuss them.

All this rumor crap would stop if Porsche would actually throw us a bone or two to have something to hold on and brag about it.

Fact is: Porsche exaggerates the secrecy a little bit too much. I understand that they don't want to pass on REAL secrets but if they do that regarding a product which is expected very soon, this is completely illogical.

They should give us something, a simple HP figure, maybe one or two new options, a picture or two with some more details. The suspense is killing us and the rumors already started to boil. Not our fault.

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Dec 22, 2005 10:25:29 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

RC, gadgets are fun. Hopefully it is not more than a rumor.

But to use gadgetry as a ruse to charge customers extra to access the power the car already has, is what? Deceitful is an apt description of that practice.

If Porsche wants to tacky up themselves with gimmicks to bait customers into paying extra for whats already really there, thats their choice. It shows where some of their minds are at.

And if Porsche next wants to charge customers for a "Volume
Control" option so they can listen to their standard equipment radio, I suppose that would be a nice gadget to offer also. Right?

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Dec 22, 2005 10:32:21 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: amjf088

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Quote:
amjf088 said:
Fritz,

You're bang on. It doesn't take much to get some people equating Porsche to greedy pirates. It's like there's a bunch of folk just waiting to jump on this stuff.

Not so much "a bunch of folk" as always the same "usual suspects".

And even when I've loosened my tie, unbuttoned my jacket, kicked off my shoes and stretched out in an easy chair to relax, my bullshxt meter still stays switched on and frequently goes to end of its scale.

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Dec 22, 2005 10:34:18 PM

throt: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 6078, Gallery; Registered on: May 9, 2005; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

I know where Jims coming from , its a principle thing..

Stick with what you believe is right..

throt..

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Dec 22, 2005 10:34:51 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
fritz said:
Crash, the point of my post was that Jim's rant would only be valid IF the rumor proved to be true, and as yet it is not even really a RUMOR, because - from what i remember - the wording of "the Stuttgarter's" post was not exactly clear on this point.
And now we already have somebody apparently putting a price of 1000 Euro on this option in this thread, based on this vague rumor. As I said, this is almost funny.

Fact The suspense is killing us and the rumors already started to boil. Not our fault.

Sorry RC I must disagree there is suspense. The Turbo will look like the 997 with a silly tail( to think grown mature men drive with one on the back just boggles my mind

). It will be equipped with a Turbo and have about 460-480hp. They will offer the DSG in a couple of years. It will be introduced in the first half of 2006.

With respect to performance, it will do 0-60 in about 3.8sec. Its Ring time will depend on weather and who is driving. If it is Saurma, he will bring it around 7.50 sec. that is if you wish to believe him.

The car will be priced in the US around $140,000. You can extrapolate Euro pricing from US pricing.

When you think about it, there is not much left to know.

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Dec 22, 2005 10:36:35 PM

throt: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 6078, Gallery; Registered on: May 9, 2005; Reply to: fritz

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
amjf088 said:
Fritz,

You're bang on. It doesn't take much to get some people equating Porsche to greedy pirates. It's like there's a bunch of folk just waiting to jump on this stuff.

Not so much "a bunch of folk" as always the same "usual suspects".

And even when I've loosened my tie, unbuttoned my jacket, kicked off my shoes and stretched out in an easy chair to relax, my bullshxt meter still stays switched on and frequently goes to end of its scale.

Lol , BS along with greed makes the world go round ..

throt..

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Dec 22, 2005 11:14:56 PM

Tim: Pilot; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 458, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 24, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Quote:
The Turbo will look like the 997 with a silly tail( to think grown mature men drive with one on the back just boggles my mind ).

And this from someone who drives a car whose main design inspiration was an alien face... .

Tim

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Dec 22, 2005 11:23:21 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: throt

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Nick, when you see the better pictures of the 997TT, you will see that its better looking than you first thought.

By comparison, a Enzo looks like it was grabbed from a Speed Racer cartoon and a F430's front air intakes look like King Kongs nasal passages.

Lots of aerodynamic tricks done to decrease lift and
maximize downforce end up looking Disney like.

But the CGT is the only Supercar that looks truly purposeful.

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Dec 23, 2005 1:07:05 AM

Ron (Houston): Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Houston, TX , United States; Posts: 8812, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 10, 2002; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
They shouldnt attempt to additionally monetize a feature that is a ordinary feature in turbocharger applications. To do so is completely disreputable and also intentionally misleading customers.Overboost is nothing new, its not a gadget, its not a trick, its not a Porsche discovery!

Jim,

Porsche is not doing this for us that know what the hell is going on technically. They're doing it for the people that buy the car for the word 'Turbo' and 'Porsche' and nothing else.

My dealer told me that a gentleman was wondering why Automatic transmission on Porsche 'tips' have '+ / -' switches on the steering wheel. If it's automatic why do you need to change gears. He opted to buy the Turbo cab tip because it was more expensive than what they had to offer at the time.

These people are the ones that Porsche can sell their options to. We happened to be among the 3% Porsche lovers that have to pay for marketing gimmik stuff like Chrono Package too

.

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Dec 23, 2005 1:18:29 AM

Louis: Pilot; Loc: Toronto , Canada; Posts: 409, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 28, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Quote:
RC said:
Power is still rumored at 480-483 HP, so the "stuttgarter" seems to be right.

For the 997TT? What about the 997TT S?

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Dec 23, 2005 3:17:00 AM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Tim

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Quote:
Tim said:
Quote:
The Turbo will look like the 997 with a silly tail( to think grown mature men drive with one on the back just boggles my mind ).

And this from someone who drives a car whose main design inspiration was an alien face... .

Tim

Tim never enter into a argument when your side is decidely handicapped. Even the most ardent Porschephile will acknowledge the 430 is a much better looking than the 997. Whether you wish to accept it or not, the 997 is a very undistinguished looking automobile. But I do understand some people like that.

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Dec 23, 2005 5:20:01 AM

MKW: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Palo Alto and North Lake Tahoe , United States; Posts: 2491, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 22, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Quote:
nberry said:
They have a captive customer base. Why not lighten their wallets?

Kinda like the Ferrari captives being quoted $16,000 for a $100 tranny control solenoid/pump, right , Nick ?

The Infamous $16,000 Ferrari part thread

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Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

Re: here's the sccop on the 997 TT

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