Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Ringtime of the F430 - Page1

Dec 17, 2005 8:11:16 PM

ha: Expert; Loc: Riyadh , Saudi Arabia; Posts: 1695, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: Ringtime of the F430

Quote:
nberry said:
Ha, the Z06 did the Ring in 7:42. Yes, it was set up for the Ring but aren't all Porsche's designed for the Ring?

The Radical is designed for the Ring and it will leave your CGT so far behind that it would not bother finishing.

My point is there are so many variables involving high performance sport cars which have a dramatic impact on times. To use this as the sole criteria is foolish UNLESS someone is desparately seeking a reason to find advantage or fault.

I suspect even on this pro Porsche board, if they were handed two sets of keys one to the 430 and another to the 997 TT and they could keep one, the majority would pick the 430. Case closed!

LOL... Nick, why don't you stick to crusing down the streets showing off your Ferrari to SoCal babes and leave track discussions to real drivers.

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Dec 17, 2005 8:29:05 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: ha

Re: Ringtime of the F430

Sorry Ha, I forgot your a "real driver". How stupid of me.

Carlos, do you deny the Radial will beat the CGT by at least 10 seconds around the Ring assuming that Surma is not the driver of the Radical?

RC and the rest of you Porsche lovers are you claiming that GM deliberately misrepresented the Ring numbers for the Z06? Because if you are then you do not understand the Ameican legal system. You may argue that the car was set up for the Ring and not fairly representative of a factory Z06 but you cannot deny the time.

I find it astounshing that on the one hand Porsche can set up all its car for Ring times and that is considered acceptable whereas other manufacturers if they try to set up their cars for the Ring its viewed as cheating.

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Dec 17, 2005 8:34:36 PM

ha: Expert; Loc: Riyadh , Saudi Arabia; Posts: 1695, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: Ringtime of the F430

Quote:
nberry said:
Sorry Ha, I forgot your a "real driver". How stupid of me.

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Dec 17, 2005 8:41:31 PM

ha: Expert; Loc: Riyadh , Saudi Arabia; Posts: 1695, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: Ringtime of the F430

Quote:
nberry said:
..Because if you are then you do not understand the Ameican legal system..

Its a very simple system. All you need to do is watch the OJ Simpson and the Michael Jackson trials.

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Dec 17, 2005 8:53:02 PM

Ziggy: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1600, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 27, 2004; Reply to: ha

Re: Ringtime of the F430

Quote:
ha said:
Quote:
nberry said:
..Because if you are then you do not understand the Ameican legal system..

Its a very simple system. All you need to do is watch the OJ Simpson and the Michael Jackson trials.

Big LOL

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Dec 17, 2005 9:17:38 PM

elysium: Senior; Loc: Oslo; Posts: 553, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 26, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: Ringtime of the F430

Quote:
nberry said:
RC and the rest of you Porsche lovers are you claiming that GM deliberately misrepresented the Ring numbers for the Z06? Because if you are then you do not understand the Ameican legal system. You may argue that the car was set up for the Ring and not fairly representative of a factory Z06 but you cannot deny the time.

OK Nick, show me the official press release from GM and I'll reconsider my view on it. Deal?

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Dec 17, 2005 10:13:10 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: vinnie

Re: Ringtime of the F430

Quote:
vinnie said:
Porsche is all about marketing, they are all mass produced boring looking cars that only appeal because of their prestige badge at an affordable price not performance. A Porsche Boxter S was tested on a racetrack against a Subaru STI WRX. The Porsche had more power and acceration and weighed 180kg less than the Subaru. The test for both cars was done on the same day by the same professional test driver. The Porsche was around a second slower per lap and keep in mind that the Subaru was less than half the price than the Porsche. How can you say that Porsche is a performance car after that???

http://www.italiaspeed.com/2005/motorsport/sportscars/british_gt/mondello/report.html

If you want to compare Ferrari and Porsche on the track properly it's called motor racing!!

If you look at this you will see that in the British Championship the team that's leading in a Ferrari 360 GTC has an 'unassailable' lead with 3 races still remaining.
If you look at the bottom of the page you will see that the car the 2 Ferraris beat was the Porsche GT2 which is far more powerful than the Ferrari 360 GTC, It just goes to show that when you talk about track cars it's more about balance and not power.

Come on man, not again!

Nick, GM has produced nothing which would make us believe that the time is legit. No videos of the run, hardly any pictures, so they essentially have nothing. I'd like an independent test performed at AMS, the driver used can be the same as o GM's "official" run and then you can talk all the smack you want. If it's warranted, I don't mind. Anyway, regarding your F430 vs. 997TT question, I would, without ANY doubt WHATSOEVER choose the Porsche between the two of them. And then I'd buy an ugly Cayenne S to boot (at least I'd have decided it was ugly before I bought it and then realized Porsche was not elite enough for my tastes

)

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Dec 17, 2005 10:42:21 PM

svtrader1: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 821, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Ringtime of the F430

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
svtrader1 said:
Sport Auto is a joke. Horse von Saurma is a Porsche puppet. With him behind the wheels of 997tt it would clock a 'Ring time of 7:45 sec. And the Z06 would see 7:57sec. Ring time is nonsense and meaning less.

Well, you seem to know him well, right?!
I think Horst v. Saurma is one of the last respected car magazine test drivers worldwide. You should read the whole article before judging by the numbers only. The F430 is a great car, no doubt. But it seems that it is more comfort oriented than most people thought at the beginning.
Which brings me to the upcoming F430 Challenge. It has to be "better" than the F430, otherwise it wouldn't be worth another 20000 Euro or so, right?!

Ring time is nonsense? Ring time means a lot. It shows how good the overall setup of a car is. Power, chassis, tires, everything.

And finally, why are you surprised? I don't know about the US but over here in Germany, in the past, Ferraristi avoided Porsche drivers at driver ed events like the devil the holy water. Because during such events, they stood chance. One reason why the "Ferrari only" events became that popular. Believe it or not, not my job to make you a believer.

Like I said in older posts: it matters how much money and development time you invest in actual CAR development, not RACE CAR development. While Ferrari is probably testing five testmules of a specific model, Porsche tests fifty.
Just a dumb comparison but the best example is actually Lamborghini: their cars never were really competitive, performance and especially handling-wise, not to speak about reliability. Now look at the Gallardo and Muricielago, since Audi took over, Lamborghini has improved tremendously. Unbelievable.

But what are you complaining? You're still getting one of the most beautiful cars in the world with the F430. Isn't that enough? According to Nick, it should be.

I should be more clear and specific. I think Sport Auto and Von Saurma are meaningless with regards to 'Ring time.

If you think Sport Auto at the 'Ring is the end-all be-all of track testing then that's your right.

But, I think there ought to be more test done by other publications.

For example: When Sport Auto tested the Murci, they clocked a lap of 7:50 sec. Compare that to Autocars time of 7:43 sec. And you have to ask yourself why such a difference?

This to me raises some eyebrows. Who's to say which is the more accurate time of what the car is really capable of? So, I'm going to take what Sport Auto says with a grain of salt.

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Dec 17, 2005 11:00:02 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: elysium

Re: Ringtime of the F430

Quote:
elysium said:
Quote:
nberry said:
RC and the rest of you Porsche lovers are you claiming that GM deliberately misrepresented the Ring numbers for the Z06? Because if you are then you do not understand the Ameican legal system. You may argue that the car was set up for the Ring and not fairly representative of a factory Z06 but you cannot deny the time.

Dave Hill the lead engineer has been quoted along with the driver confirming the time in every publication that has reviewed the Z06. If you want an "official" announcement from GM that would be like asking Porsche for an official announcement for all the its cars on the Ring. It does not exist.

However, at least the head engineer of the Z06 has confirmed the Ring time. Show me one Porsche employee other the "I could do better" driver W. Rorhl confirming ANY Porsche times at the Ring.

OK Nick, show me the official press release from GM and I'll reconsider my view on it. Deal?

Dave Hill the lead engineer has been quoted (along with the driver)confirming the time in every publication that has reviewed the Z06. If you want an "official" announcement from GM that would be like asking Porsche for an official announcement for all its cars on the Ring. It does not exist.

However, at least the head engineer of the Z06 has confirmed the Ring time. Show me one Porsche employee other than possibly "I could do better" driver W. Rohrl confirming ANY Porsche times at the Ring.

Crash your response regarding the selection of the TT only confirmed what I thought I knew about you.

Ha, Obviously Kuwait must agree with our system. Isn't Jackson moving into your neighborhood?

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Dec 17, 2005 11:40:21 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: Ringtime of the F430

Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
elysium said:
Quote:
nberry said:
RC and the rest of you Porsche lovers are you claiming that GM deliberately misrepresented the Ring numbers for the Z06? Because if you are then you do not understand the Ameican legal system. You may argue that the car was set up for the Ring and not fairly representative of a factory Z06 but you cannot deny the time.

Dave Hill the lead engineer has been quoted along with the driver confirming the time in every publication that has reviewed the Z06. If you want an "official" announcement from GM that would be like asking Porsche for an official announcement for all the its cars on the Ring. It does not exist.

However, at least the head engineer of the Z06 has confirmed the Ring time. Show me one Porsche employee other the "I could do better" driver W. Rorhl confirming ANY Porsche times at the Ring.

OK Nick, show me the official press release from GM and I'll reconsider my view on it. Deal?

Dave Hill the lead engineer has been quoted (along with the driver)confirming the time in every publication that has reviewed the Z06. If you want an "official" announcement from GM that would be like asking Porsche for an official announcement for all its cars on the Ring. It does not exist.

However, at least the head engineer of the Z06 has confirmed the Ring time. Show me one Porsche employee other than possibly "I could do better" driver W. Rohrl confirming ANY Porsche times at the Ring.

Crash your response regarding the selection of the TT only confirmed what I thought I knew about you.

Ha, Obviously Kuwait must agree with our system. Isn't Jackson moving into your neighborhood?

So, Nick, what do you know about me? That I really like Ferraris, particularly the F430, but would still choose a 997TT over it (I'd take the F430 over a 997S, though)? Wow, I must be a real evil doer

. When will you realize, Nick, that just because someone doesn't share your taste in cars (and the "taste" of elitists trying to get the most expensive car just to show off), that doesn't make that person wrong? I respect your choices, I think it's great that you're enjoying the car you want, but please, Porsche bashing is getting really old. True, there are too many of them, they depreciate like rocks in the US and they don't have the "cool" factor of a Ferrari among the West Coast megalopolis gold diggers, but at the end of the day I like the look of the 997TT a lot, the performance obviously isn't going to be anything to laugh about (the TTS will probably be about as fast as a Ruf 550 car), the cars are virtually bullet-proof, are safer than Ferraris (in my subjective opinion) and most of all, they don't yell out "LOOK AT ME"! Heck, if I wanted people to look at my car I would've gone out and bought a used Murcielago. But hey, that's just me.

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Dec 17, 2005 11:55:38 PM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: Crash

Re: Ringtime of the F430

nick... you are a vital element to rennteam!!! and if i had to pick a lawyer i would definetly pick you , whatever the cost!! cheers to cedars land

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Dec 18, 2005 12:15:32 AM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Crash

Re: Ringtime of the F430

Crash quote " True, there are too many of them, they depreciate like rocks in the US and they don't have the cool as a Ferrari". Counselor, I appreciate your candor and you have identified exactly why I am amazed a person of your intellect would choose an ugly Porsche.

If performance is what your looking for, save yourself $75,000 Euro's and get a Z06. it will be as good if not better than the 997 TT. I will not charge for this sage advice.

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Dec 18, 2005 12:27:46 AM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: Ringtime of the F430

Quote:
nberry said:
Crash quote " True, there are too many of them, they depreciate like rocks in the US and they don't have the cool as a Ferrari". Counselor, I appreciate your candor and you have identified exactly why I am amazed a person of your intellect would choose an ugly Porsche.

If performance is what your looking for, save yourself $75,000 Euro's and get a Z06. it will be as good if not better than the 997 TT. I will not charge for this sage advice.

Spoken like an honest lawyer

Regarding depreciation of Porsches, it's not as bad in Europe and since I don't intend on babying the car (say 5000 miles annually), a Ferrari would also be out of the question, although if I could afford two cars I would get an F430. I think it's an amazing machine (and if I lived in the US I'd be inclined to think even more so after flipping it for a handsome $50.000 profit

). The C6Z is definitely a good buy, but ever since I was 5 years old I wanted a Porsche and as luck would have it, I can now finally actually afford one. I think the 997TTS and I will be getting along just fine

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Dec 18, 2005 12:32:01 AM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: Ringtime of the F430

Quote:
nberry said:
Carlos, do you deny the Radial will beat the CGT by at least 10 seconds around the Ring assuming that Surma is not the driver of the Radical?

That is not what you said, don't back track, you disappoint me Nick

.
This is what you said:

Quote:
nberry said:
The Radical is designed for the Ring and it will leave your CGT so far behind that it would not bother finishing.

The Radical is not designed for the ring. In fact they only set on the ring to do a fast lap and set the record with the SR3 Turbo, and now with the SR8. The Radical is made for competion in normal tracks, and weekend track days. Its not made for real world roads nor Ring.
The Radical is so much racecar and so little streetcar than you would believe. And to compare it to a streetcar is simply naive to say the least.

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Dec 18, 2005 12:38:19 AM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: svtrader1

Re: Ringtime of the F430

Quote:
svtrader1 said:
For example: When Sport Auto tested the Murci, they clocked a lap of 7:50 sec. Compare that to Autocars time of 7:43 sec. And you have to ask yourself why such a difference?

I suppose you pulled that one out of an anonimous list you stumbled upon and you don't know the driver, the tires or even the legnth of the Ring used (yes, there are different legnths depending on the day, event, or use) for that lap time, right?

That goes to show you that information can't be a dangerous tool if not complete or not handled appropiately.

Saurma's lap times are done on the exact same lenght, tires used are listed, enviromental conditions, same driver, etc, etc, etc. Its the BEST reference of Ring performance for the varoius cars wethere you like it or not. Like I said, don't kill the messenger all of a sudden, kill the Ferrari engineers if you don't like the result.

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Dec 18, 2005 12:48:59 AM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Crash

Re: Ringtime of the F430

Crash I did not realize you have not owned a Porsche. Certainly in your position I would do the same. My first high performance sport car was a Porsche. I tracked it (never told Porsche) and enjoyed it. As i got older, I began to view performance cars a little differently and sought vehicle virtues that recently Porsche decided not to provide.

Carlos, what I meant was the radical is made for the track including the Ring. Its sole purpose is speed on a sanctioned venue. I also understand that the Radical is not very friendly on public streets but nor is the CGT at least in my opinion.

Hayek, thank you for your kind words. A friendly comment now and then is appreciated.

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Dec 18, 2005 2:11:07 AM

svtrader1: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 821, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2003; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Ringtime of the F430

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Quote:
svtrader1 said:
For example: When Sport Auto tested the Murci, they clocked a lap of 7:50 sec. Compare that to Autocars time of 7:43 sec. And you have to ask yourself why such a difference?

I suppose you pulled that one out of an anonimous list you stumbled upon and you don't know the driver, the tires or even the legnth of the Ring used (yes, there are different legnths depending on the day, event, or use) for that lap time, right?

That goes to show you that information can't be a dangerous tool if not complete or not handled appropiately.

Saurma's lap times are done on the exact same lenght, tires used are listed, enviromental conditions, same driver, etc, etc, etc. Its the BEST reference of Ring performance for the varoius cars wethere you like it or not. Like I said, don't kill the messenger all of a sudden, kill the Ferrari engineers if you don't like the result.

Give me a break! It was the same track length, same car, same tires etc. Just different driver and different magazine. http://www.racingsouthwest.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t16612.html

Another round of Kool Aid?

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Dec 18, 2005 4:07:42 AM

vinnie: Veteran; Loc: Australia , Australia; Posts: 1005, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 25, 2005; Reply to: svtrader1

Re: Ringtime of the F430

Porsche owners have a real complex about ferraris, why talk up Porsche cars on the Ferrari board? Ferrari lovers don't talk up their cars on the Porsche board. The competitor for Ferrari is Lamborghini not Porsche. I know of some people who have owned Porsche cars, Boxters and 911's which they sold after a few months because of not liking their behaviour in everyday conditions. Why get a Porsche as a daily driver when you can get a Mercedes? The only place I have come across people who love Porsche so much is here on Rennteam. Does anyone here realise that the Ring is in Germany and that's the reason that Porsche does so well at this track??? Porsche cars you could say are made for that track. In motor sport Ferrari is more dominant in Gt racing anyway, against the Porsche.

Last time I was watching a Porsche 911 race on television here the whole right headlight assembly just flew off!!!
Great build quality.

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Dec 18, 2005 4:31:26 AM

vinnie: Veteran; Loc: Australia , Australia; Posts: 1005, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 25, 2005; Reply to: vinnie

Re: Ringtime of the F430

I think the ratio of Porsche/ Ferrari enthusiests here is too much the wrong way.

Have you noticed how people "love" Ferraris with a great passion and the other side feel they have to "justify" why they like Porsche so much.

Ferrari is instantly attractive like a gorgeous woman, Porsche is an acquired taste like coffee, you let it grow on you.

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Dec 18, 2005 4:46:12 AM

teflon: Co-Pilot; Loc: US , United States; Posts: 216, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 13, 2003; Reply to: vinnie

Re: Ringtime of the F430

vinnie,

How do you characterize those people who own both a Ferrari and Porsche?

Greg A

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Dec 18, 2005 5:21:53 AM

vinnie: Veteran; Loc: Australia , Australia; Posts: 1005, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 25, 2005; Reply to: teflon

Re: Ringtime of the F430

I characterize people that own both as people that like vareity, a person who can afford to buy a new Ferrari or Porsche usually has more than one type of car anyway. Unless he/she is putting too much of their wealth into one car.
If you have the money there are only so many manufacturers to choose from anyway so invariably most collections include a Porsche.

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Dec 18, 2005 6:36:56 AM

ha: Expert; Loc: Riyadh , Saudi Arabia; Posts: 1695, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: Ringtime of the F430

Quote:
nberry said:
Ha, Obviously Kuwait must agree with our system. Isn't Jackson moving into your neighborhood?

OMG

.. Not only do you need to improve your knowledge in performance cars, but you also need to read more about world geography. I suggest you subscribe to National Geographic along with your subscriptions to Car & Driver, Road & Track, and Ferrari & Small Pen!s.

Btw, Kuwait and Bahrain are two different countries.

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Dec 18, 2005 8:30:59 AM

amir sarmad: Veteran; Loc: dubai, UAE; Posts: 909, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 30, 2005; Reply to: teflon

Re: Ringtime of the F430

Quote:
teflon said:
vinnie,

How do you characterize those people who own both a Ferrari and Porsche?

Greg A

its the equivelant of having a wife and a mistress at the same time. (wife being the porsche)

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Dec 18, 2005 9:15:28 AM

dg911: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 104, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 26, 2004; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Ringtime of the F430

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Quote:
svtrader1 said:

Saurma's lap times are done on the exact same lenght, tires used are listed, enviromental conditions, same driver, etc, etc, etc. Its the BEST reference of Ring performance for the varoius cars wethere you like it or not. Like I said, don't kill the messenger all of a sudden, kill the Ferrari engineers if you don't like the result.

I think that two factors, the tires and the enviromental conditions, are very important for the final laptimes reported by SportAuto. And reading their reports I have some serious doubts about the way they conduct their tests. First regarding the tires you see more and more that they are playing with them but it is not always clear whether these tires are OE or not. An OE tire is developed for a specific car.An OE tire, with exactly the same name, on another car can be quite different.A replacement tire with same name is further different. Their test with the M6 is the proof that what they are doing with the tires is not correct. On the Ring the M6 develops much more understeer with the Pirelli Corsa than with the regular tire, with at the end a poor result.
Secondly the weather conditions are very important and contrarily to what you said they are not reporting any info for the NBR times. I am assuming that in order to publish their article in the next magazine issue they can not always test the cars under the best conditions. Whether they take the same precautions for all the brands is the big question for me. Just to give you my thoughts an example ...I found surprising that he took nearly one year after car introduction to have (the good) 997 S results and just few weeks to have (the not very good) M5 results.

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Dec 18, 2005 10:39:23 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: vinnie

Re: Ringtime of the F430

Quote:
vinnie said:
Porsche is all about marketing, they are all mass produced boring looking cars that only appeal because of their prestige badge at an affordable price not performance. A Porsche Boxter S was tested on a racetrack against a Subaru STI WRX. The Porsche had more power and acceration and weighed 180kg less than the Subaru. The test for both cars was done on the same day by the same professional test driver. The Porsche was around a second slower per lap and keep in mind that the Subaru was less than half the price than the Porsche. How can you say that Porsche is a performance car after that???

http://www.italiaspeed.com/2005/motorsport/sportscars/british_gt/mondello/report.html

If you want to compare Ferrari and Porsche on the track properly it's called motor racing!!

If you look at this you will see that in the British Championship the team that's leading in a Ferrari 360 GTC has an 'unassailable' lead with 3 races still remaining.
If you look at the bottom of the page you will see that the car the 2 Ferraris beat was the Porsche GT2 which is far more powerful than the Ferrari 360 GTC, It just goes to show that when you talk about track cars it's more about balance and not power.

I think you are a bit too negative regarding Porsche.

Let me just quote four figures from the recent issue of sportauto. The numbers represent Hockenheim lap times:

Mitsubishi Lancer Evo IX: 1.16,8
Subaru Imprezza WRX STi: 1.16,1
Porsche Cayman S: 1.15,5
Porsche Carrera S: 1.13,7 (Powerkit but no sport suspension)

All questions answered?

Porsche are expensive, but they are worth it. This applies to comaprisons as the above as well as to comparisons to Ferrari or Lamborghini.

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Dec 18, 2005 10:42:16 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: Ringtime of the F430

Quote:
nberry said:
are you claiming that GM deliberately misrepresented the Ring numbers for the Z06?

Yes!

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Dec 18, 2005 10:48:18 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: Ringtime of the F430

Quote:
nberry said:
Dave Hill the lead engineer has been quoted along with the driver confirming the time in every publication that has reviewed the Z06. If you want an "official" announcement from GM that would be like asking Porsche for an official announcement for all the its cars on the Ring. It does not exist.

However, at least the head engineer of the Z06 has confirmed the Ring time. Show me one Porsche employee other the "I could do better" driver W. Rorhl confirming ANY Porsche times at the Ring.

What I know is that the same GM lead engineer apparently also claimed a C06 time which was 15-20 seconds better than the independant test results of sportauto.

For me that is rather clear evidence. It is all a big cheat.

GM should send a Z06 to sportauto and then we can discuss test results. Not rumours and lies.

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Dec 18, 2005 10:51:44 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: Ringtime of the F430

Quote:
nberry said:
If performance is what your looking for, save yourself $75,000 Euro's and get a Z06. it will be as good if not better than the 997 TT. I will not charge for this sage advice.

Is it your intention to prove that lawyers do not know much about sports cars

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Dec 18, 2005 10:56:19 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: svtrader1

Re: Ringtime of the F430

Quote:
svtrader1 said:

Give me a break! It was the same track length, same car, same tires etc. Just different driver and different magazine.

The last "just" is the important one. It implies that those numbers cannot be compared and that they are pretty useless for a sound discussion.

As Carlos pointed out, the sportauto supertest is the best benchmark for comparing sports cars.

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Dec 18, 2005 11:54:07 AM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: Ringtime of the F430

Quote:
nberry said:I also understand that the Radical is not very friendly on public streets but nor is the CGT at least in my opinion.

The Radical is far beyond the CGT in relation to street friendly (there is no roof, no cabin space, no extras, no ground clearance, no user friendliness, no ride confort, racecar rattles and noices everywere, needs engine rebuilds, and so on. The Radical is a racecar with a licence plate (in GB only). The Radical makes the F40 look like a Bentley

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Porsche	SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)	4/17/24 7:16 AM Gnil	777764	1798
Porsche	Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos)	4/7/24 11:48 AM Boxster Coupe GTS	441905	565
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021)	5/12/23 12:11 PM W8MM	262874	288
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022	3/12/24 8:28 AM DJM48	261096	323
Porsche	The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche	1/30/24 9:18 AM RC	85360	45
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift	3/15/24 1:23 PM CGX car nut	5635	50
Porsche	The moment I've been waiting for...	2/1/24 7:01 PM Pilot	880772	1364
Porsche	992 GT3	7/23/23 7:01 PM Grant	816262	3868
Porsche	Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!	2/10/24 4:43 PM nberry	391047	1526
Porsche	GT4RS	4/21/24 11:50 AM mcdelaug	390183	1454
Others	Tesla 2 the new thread	12/13/23 2:48 PM CGX car nut	372359	2401
Porsche	Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design	7/3/23 12:30 PM Porker	369007	797
Porsche	Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour	4/11/24 12:32 PM Ferdie	289262	668
Porsche	Collected my 997 GTS today	10/19/23 7:06 PM CGX car nut	261390	812
Lambo	Huracán EVO STO	7/30/23 6:59 PM mcdelaug	240251	346
Lotus	Lotus Emira	6/25/23 2:53 PM Enmanuel	230585	101
Others	Corvette C8	10/16/23 3:24 PM Enmanuel	221251	488
Others	Gordon Murray - T.50	11/22/23 10:27 AM mcdelaug	169370	387
Porsche	Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS	6/11/23 5:13 PM CGX car nut	141147	144
BMW M	2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now	12/29/23 9:04 AM RC	117616	303
Motor Sp.	2023 Formula One	12/19/23 5:38 AM Whoopsy	108687	685
Porsche	2022 992 Safari Model	3/7/24 4:22 PM Whoopsy	84227	239
AMG	Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758	2/23/24 10:03 PM blueflame	75116	297
Porsche	992 GT3 RS	3/3/24 7:22 PM Whoopsy	53706	314
Motor Sp.	Porsche 963	3/16/24 9:27 PM Whoopsy	25114	237
Ferrari	Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6)	1/21/24 4:29 PM GT-Boy	21175	103
BMW M	2022 BMW M5 CS	4/8/24 1:43 PM Ferdie	19507	140
AMG	G63 sold out	9/15/23 7:38 PM Nico997	16591	120
AMG	[2022] Mercedes-AMG SL	4/23/24 1:24 PM RC	13750	225
Motor Sp.	24-Hour race Nürburgring 2018	5/25/23 10:42 PM Grant	11258	55

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