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    Dec 14, 2005 9:38:29 PM

    beltar
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    beltar
    Loc: belgium , Belgium
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    Registered on: Mar 15, 2005

    Mystery laptimes in Abbeville

    Since not many rennteampeople read french magazines, i presume, i want to inform you about an odd experience the testers of the (very good) french magazine(flat6) encountered.

    It concerns the laptimes of different 997 on their testtrack at Abbeville.

    For the second time aroud they made better laptimes with the cab than the coupe.

    I'll give the respective laptimes of 6 cars:
    996 4s: 1'22"9
    997 3.6 car 2: 1'22"5 (without PASM and PCCB)
    997S : 1'21"6 (with PASM without PCCB)
    997s cab: 1'21"0 (with PASM and PCCB)
    997 4S : 1'20"9 (with PASM and PCCB)
    And here it comes: 997 4S cab: 1'20"0 (with PASM but without PCCB)

    Weird don't you find, the cabriolets are each time faster than their coupe opponents.

    The acceleration times of the normal 997S cab from 80 to 150 and from 100 to 200km/h are also the fastest of them all.

    The times that a cab was not appropriate to be driven around a circuit are far gone, don't you think?

    Dec 14, 2005 9:53:10 PM

    edz
    Rennteam Pro
    edz
    Loc: South Orange County
    Posts: 2022, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 11, 2005
    Reply to: beltar

    Re: Mystery laptimes in Abbeville

    Better drivers!

    Dec 14, 2005 9:57:27 PM

    Grant
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    Grant
    Loc: Denver, CO , United States
    Posts: 12586, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 21, 2002
    Reply to: edz

    Re: Mystery laptimes in Abbeville

    Quote:
    edz61 said:
    Better drivers!


    More likely: Different tires...

    I assume this mag would use the same driver, but the cars get delivered with several brands of tires...

    Dec 14, 2005 9:59:42 PM

    Grant
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    Grant
    Loc: Denver, CO , United States
    Posts: 12586, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 21, 2002
    Reply to: beltar

    Re: Mystery laptimes in Abbeville

    Quote:
    beltar said:
    The times that a cab was not appropriate to be driven around a circuit are far gone, dan(t you think.


    I you ever find yourself upside down (rollover), you'll be safer with a coupe...

    Dec 14, 2005 10:12:34 PM

    Ziggy
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    Ziggy
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    Reply to: beltar

    Re: Mystery laptimes in Abbeville

    Beltar, is it the French mag "Flat-6" you are talking about? Because if it is then don't believe it, their test report (Marc Joly?) is full of cr*p (Ask Fanch). They for instance tested the -20mm sport suspension and stated it was so stiff it actually was dangerous.

    Dec 14, 2005 11:04:25 PM

    Ziggy
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    Ziggy
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    Reply to: beltar

    Re: Mystery laptimes in Abbeville

    Times posted by RC on the Ferrari Board (Hockenheim):

    1:14.3 --- Porsche 997 Carrera S, 355 PS/1461 kg (sport auto 05/05)

    1:16.8 --- Porsche 997 Carrera S convertible, 355 PS/1561 kg (sport auto 10/05)

    These laptimes make more sense.

    Dec 15, 2005 8:41:21 AM

    FutchM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Futch
    Loc: EU , United Kingdom
    Posts: 4759, Gallery
    Registered on: May 14, 2002
    Reply to: beltar

    Re: Mystery laptimes in Abbeville

    Beltar,
    You can't be serious right?
    I think you know this is all nonsence because of the title of your post which includes the word Mystery.
    I wonder what Flat 6 mag, or Mr Joly for that matter, explained those times.
    I wouldn't mind talking to him again, the guy is a quite nice, but overwhelmed by the amount of work he has to put in to produce his mag on a montly basis, which I agree Beltar, used to be excellent (I was subscribed) but has over the years become pretty bad.

    To me, Flat 6 now specialises more in older 911, like the 3.2L etc. If you read the mag, it's not very nice to say, but you can tell it's written for a different clientele than us, the kind that dreams about a 997, would you agree?
    There's nothing wrong with that, but it's too much to cover for one journalist and I'm not even talking about his disastrous sense of humour and abysmally bad writing style.
    Even Paul Frere's letter has become boring over the years!

    Now back on those laptimes, I haven't read the mag, and frankly I'm not going to, but I really wonder, cab or not, how a heavier and softer car with the same options (chrono sport of not, PCCB or not, etc.) can be faster than a lighter one, more rigid, with the same driver!!!

    In terms of publication, I suggest you try RS Mag, which isn't great either to be honest but better, it has some pretty good technical driving reviews by Jean-Marc Bachelier at the back of the mag.
    Or better, in my opinion, British publications, EVO is my favorite, GT Purely Porsche is not bad, but from a general standpoint, press specialised in Porsche only tends to be worth for the simple reason that it's often one person behind the articles.

    Dec 15, 2005 9:01:57 AM

    GnilM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Gnil
    Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland
    Posts: 14173, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 11, 2005
    Reply to: FutchM

    Re: Mystery laptimes in Abbeville

    Beltar..... Read ' La chronique de Paul Frère' on page 12 of the december issue. That might give the answer....

    Dec 15, 2005 12:13:06 PM

    FARGO
    Co-Pilot
    FARGO
    Loc: crazyland (B)
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    Registered on: May 25, 2005
    Reply to: GnilM

    Re: Mystery laptimes in Abbeville

    Beltar
    in the spring, i invite you for a few sprints....
    we will check this out

    Dec 15, 2005 1:34:07 PM

    beltar
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    beltar
    Loc: belgium , Belgium
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    Reply to: FARGO

    Re: Mystery laptimes in Abbeville

    Quote:
    FARGO said:
    Beltar
    in the spring, i invite you for a few sprints....
    we will check this out



    Why wait till the spring, tonight i'll have my baby back... let's go for it

    Dec 15, 2005 1:40:15 PM

    beltar
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    beltar
    Loc: belgium , Belgium
    Posts: 1232, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 15, 2005
    Reply to: beltar

    Re: Mystery laptimes in Abbeville

    No kidding, every normalthinking person knows a coupe has to be faster than the heavier cabriolet. Tht's the reason of my post here.
    What can be the reason of those figures?
    Even marc Joly writes, this is not explainable.
    The times of the 4S maybe, can be explained by the better grip out of the short turns in abbeville. (the circuit is small and has no very long straight lines where the power can make a difference in e.g topspeed.).

    On the times of the X51 there Joly asks effectively himself wether he drove a bad beaten in car or a rather tame engine (on this particular car)
    He says he will try to test another x51 later on, because this is not normal;

    Dec 15, 2005 4:12:11 PM

    GnilM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Gnil
    Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland
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    Registered on: Mar 11, 2005
    Reply to: beltar

    Re: Mystery laptimes in Abbeville

    I have read the article..... let's wait and see for some other tests...

    Dec 15, 2005 6:30:06 PM

    cartouche
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    cartouche
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    Reply to: GnilM

    Re: Mystery laptimes in Abbeville

    Quote:
    Gnil said:
    Beltar..... Read ' La chronique de Paul Frère' on page 12 of the december issue. That might give the answer....


    That's it : results are unreliable under the half second !

    Dec 15, 2005 9:38:48 PM

    dg911
    Junior
    dg911
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    Reply to: FutchM

    Re: Mystery laptimes in Abbeville

    Yes, this magazine is not serious. They measure acceleration times with three(!) digits, compare them with two years old results ...and then spend two pages looking for explanations to their supposedly not logical results. They should may be just read what they published on other pages (Paul Frere's article). By the way the article from Paul Frere is valid for all tests published by the various magazines... including the German Sport Auto magazine that a lot of people on this board consider as an absolute reference (NBR times). Even if it is obvious that the SA measurements are done in a much more scientific way, there are still a lot of variables that they cannot control, which at the end could give seconds of difference. So claiming for example that a Carrera S with NBR time of 8:05 is significantly faster than a M6 with a time of 8:09 is quite hazardous.
     
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