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Dec 14, 2005 2:54:22 PM
- 69bossnine
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Re: 997TT - New pics??
So in 22 pages, and 210+ posts, we've basically concluded that the fog lamps blow serious chunks, and the rest of the car is decent, although will take some getting used to for some. Not bad.
Think about it, the best music takes a few listens before it hooks you.
The best art takes awhile to soak in to really appreciate
The best food, is often very polarizing.
Sometimes when something appears in front of you, and doesn't immediately smack you across the face as being beautiful, it's because it's challenging your ingrained PERCEPTIONS.
Some folks are able to shift gears quickly, absorbing new things and digesting them rapidly.
Others are slow to adjust, and puke things back up rather than digesting it through.
I've always found that it takes time to really soak in new cars. As such, I'll voice concerns, but I wait on passing judgement. If the design was good, but too much of a shock out of the gate, it will endear itself to me with time. If a design is bad, it will never sink its claws into me.
Example of very good design that I thought might be very bad at first blush, as it challenged my preconceived notions? Nissan 350Z
Example of very bad design, that after years of being out, still looks damn bad? Chevy C5 Corvette. And the C6 ain't much better. The relational proportions are flat wrong, no matter what outfit you put on her.
So, don't bitch because the new 997 Turbo doesn't immediately feel familiar like a bag of chips. It'll have more staying power, and more PRESENCE, if it pushes your preconceptions a bit.
Think about it, the best music takes a few listens before it hooks you.
The best art takes awhile to soak in to really appreciate
The best food, is often very polarizing.
Sometimes when something appears in front of you, and doesn't immediately smack you across the face as being beautiful, it's because it's challenging your ingrained PERCEPTIONS.
Some folks are able to shift gears quickly, absorbing new things and digesting them rapidly.
Others are slow to adjust, and puke things back up rather than digesting it through.
I've always found that it takes time to really soak in new cars. As such, I'll voice concerns, but I wait on passing judgement. If the design was good, but too much of a shock out of the gate, it will endear itself to me with time. If a design is bad, it will never sink its claws into me.
Example of very good design that I thought might be very bad at first blush, as it challenged my preconceived notions? Nissan 350Z
Example of very bad design, that after years of being out, still looks damn bad? Chevy C5 Corvette. And the C6 ain't much better. The relational proportions are flat wrong, no matter what outfit you put on her.
So, don't bitch because the new 997 Turbo doesn't immediately feel familiar like a bag of chips. It'll have more staying power, and more PRESENCE, if it pushes your preconceptions a bit.
Dec 14, 2005 3:49:34 PM
- GreggT
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Re: 997TT - New pics??
Quote:
69bossnine said:
So in 22 pages, and 210+ posts, we've basically concluded that the fog lamps blow serious chunks, and the rest of the car is decent, although will take some getting used to for some. Not bad.
Think about it, the best music takes a few listens before it hooks you.
The best art takes awhile to soak in to really appreciate
The best food, is often very polarizing.
Nope.......not me.
We're all different.
Some people look both ways 4 times before they pull out.....(like the 1st three times may have been misinformation).
I trust my instincts (at least on cars and a few other things).
.....I can not think of one car that failed in the 'first impression' department for me.....that I was eventually able to get used to, warm-up to, feel comfortable with, talk myself into, etc, etc.........sorry.
Dec 14, 2005 3:59:20 PM
- Grant
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Re: 997TT - New pics??
Quote:
69bossnine said:Think about it, the best music takes a few listens before it hooks you.
The best art takes awhile to soak in to really appreciate
The best food, is often very polarizing.
Sometimes when something appears in front of you, and doesn't immediately smack you across the face as being beautiful, it's because it's challenging your ingrained PERCEPTIONS.
So, I guess I'll need to wait a bit longer, just as I'm waiting for the brilliant Bangle BMW designs to soak in
Actually, I think it's far better than what's happening at BMW, but I think the design is far from elegant. Turbo weren't always awkward (for the sake of mean and aggressive) looking. This is how they looked 30 years ago...
Dec 14, 2005 4:27:45 PM
- 69bossnine
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Re: 997TT - New pics??
Quote:
GreggT said:Quote:
69bossnine said:
So in 22 pages, and 210+ posts, we've basically concluded that the fog lamps blow serious chunks, and the rest of the car is decent, although will take some getting used to for some. Not bad.
Think about it, the best music takes a few listens before it hooks you.
The best art takes awhile to soak in to really appreciate
The best food, is often very polarizing.
Nope.......not me.
We're all different.
Some people look both ways 4 times before they pull out.....(like the 1st three times may have been misinformation).
I trust my instincts (at least on cars and a few other things).
.....I can not think of one car that failed in the 'first impression' department for me.....that I was eventually able to get used to, warm-up to, feel comfortable with, talk myself into, etc, etc.........sorry.
There's a big difference in trusting one's instincts, and having blind faith in one's instincts. I trust my instincts too, but I'm honest enough to admit my mistakes once I've seen something long enough to become more comfortable around it.
Are your instincts always right? Every time? I've rarely met a coffee or tea or beer drinker that swooned over their first sip. Every kid bites into their 1st grapefruit assuming it'll taste like an orange. Are you saying that you've got no ability to get past those first, wrong, impressions, stubbornly sticking to your initial knee-jerk opinion??
Ahhh, I'm being too hard on you I guess, I just don't like close-mindedness in automotive styling.
The original 356 Speedster was an EXTREMELY pioneering and hard-to-swallow design when it came out, and was considered absolutely hideous by most automotive standards and norms of the time.... Today, it's revered as a work of art.
Some of the most beautiful cars in our collection, I didn't think anything of when I was a kid, especially the cars from the 50's that I couldn't "relate" to. I had to develop an appreciation, since I didn't grow up with them. It would be rather unfortunate for me to just say, "didn't like it when I first saw it, and that's that".
All of the major advances in automotive design required a measure of risk. And no matter how strong the design, there's always somebody in the crowd who can't stand it, and will buy one of the left-over previous-year models. You can't please everybody, unless you're designing white tube socks.
Dec 14, 2005 4:45:45 PM
- MKW
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Dec 14, 2005 5:28:43 PM
- GreggT
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Re: 997TT - New pics??
Quote:
69bossnine said:
Are you saying that you've got no ability to get past those first, wrong, impressions, stubbornly sticking to your initial knee-jerk opinion??
Ahhh, I'm being too hard on you I guess, I just don't like close-mindedness in automotive styling.
No problem......I understand your point......but note I said "on cars and a few other things".
I do not trust my 1st impressions or 'instincts' implicitly (on all things), and actually there are only about 3 things I'm half-way good at.
I've always thought the 356 was a thing of beauty........and fricken incredible compared to what the rest of the planet was doing at the time
.
Re: 997TT - New pics??
Here are a couple of observations:
- Car number 4 (the black car) has those stupid bumpers and yellow side indicators, so they appear to be the American versions.
- Car number 5 in the background is a Turbo cabriolet with hardtop, unless they stuck the new Turbo wheels on a regular 997.
- The silver car number 3 has yellow calipers, indicating PCCB. While the black car number 4 appears to have red brake calipers, indicating standard brakes.
So I guess PCCB will still be (a very expensive) option and not standard equipment.
I'm reposting my photoshop of the black number 4 car since I forgot to give the side indicators their proper color
This is my millenium post btw
- Car number 4 (the black car) has those stupid bumpers and yellow side indicators, so they appear to be the American versions.
- Car number 5 in the background is a Turbo cabriolet with hardtop, unless they stuck the new Turbo wheels on a regular 997.
- The silver car number 3 has yellow calipers, indicating PCCB. While the black car number 4 appears to have red brake calipers, indicating standard brakes.
So I guess PCCB will still be (a very expensive) option and not standard equipment.
I'm reposting my photoshop of the black number 4 car since I forgot to give the side indicators their proper color
This is my millenium post btw
Re: 997TT - New pics??
Quote:
temm said:
Here are a couple of observations:
- Car number 4 (the black car) has those stupid bumpers and yellow side indicators, so they appear to be the American versions.
- Car number 5 in the background is a Turbo cabriolet with hardtop, unless they stuck the new Turbo wheels on a regular 997.
- The silver car number 3 has yellow calipers, indicating PCCB. While the black car number 4 appears to have red brake calipers, indicating standard brakes.
So I guess PCCB will still be (a very expensive) option and not standard equipment.
I'm reposting my photoshop of the black number 4 car since I forgot to give the side indicators their proper color
Also notice that the pictures of the car number4's back show it has the base seats, so the sport/adaptative seats may be an option as well, which would be more surprising.
Re: 997TT - New pics??
Have a look at the wheels on the dark colored Turbo and then look at the wheels on the Cayenne parked behind it. Reminds me of what Honda did with their Acura logo. Let's see if we angle the top of the H just a bit to resemble an A.... Bingo !!
The wheels are okay, I just like the Turbo Twisties a whole lot better.
The first pics on this thread weren't flattering at all. I was already saying to myself so which car should I buy instead, DB9 Volante ? The next set look a lot better imo. Especially love the way the rear fender bulge looks. I so want to love the car but I'm honestly not crazy about the overall look. The different design lines of the ROUND fogs, the RECTANGULAR front intakes, the ANGULAR front signals, the ZIG ZAG cut outs in the rear around the exhaust. There's too many conflicting scructure lines and shapes. Like pieces put together from different cars. There's not that cohesive, common element that makes many of the great looking cars so beautiful / aggressive. But will wait and see how it looks in person. I do think it's a shame the design isn't something that looks incredible right off. I mean Aston, Ferrari even Mercedes can build new cars that just look fantastic from the minute you see them for the first time why can't Porsche do that anymore ? You shouldn't have to wait to get used to a car in order to like it. For approx $150k I'm dissapointed it's not something that gets you to go WOW but I'm not surprised because the camoed pictures we've been seeing all along basically showed a lot of how the car would look.
I definately wont yank my deposit but I will probably also start looking at alternatives just in case it doesn't grab me as a gotta have it , when I see it live.
ps: Thanks for the phots guys.
The wheels are okay, I just like the Turbo Twisties a whole lot better.
The first pics on this thread weren't flattering at all. I was already saying to myself so which car should I buy instead, DB9 Volante ? The next set look a lot better imo. Especially love the way the rear fender bulge looks. I so want to love the car but I'm honestly not crazy about the overall look. The different design lines of the ROUND fogs, the RECTANGULAR front intakes, the ANGULAR front signals, the ZIG ZAG cut outs in the rear around the exhaust. There's too many conflicting scructure lines and shapes. Like pieces put together from different cars. There's not that cohesive, common element that makes many of the great looking cars so beautiful / aggressive. But will wait and see how it looks in person. I do think it's a shame the design isn't something that looks incredible right off. I mean Aston, Ferrari even Mercedes can build new cars that just look fantastic from the minute you see them for the first time why can't Porsche do that anymore ? You shouldn't have to wait to get used to a car in order to like it. For approx $150k I'm dissapointed it's not something that gets you to go WOW but I'm not surprised because the camoed pictures we've been seeing all along basically showed a lot of how the car would look.
I definately wont yank my deposit but I will probably also start looking at alternatives just in case it doesn't grab me as a gotta have it , when I see it live.
ps: Thanks for the phots guys.
Re: 997TT - New pics??
Strad, man,
I wondered where you had disappeared to, what with all the 997TT "noise" going on here on rennteam-I thought perhaps you gave up on the 997TT thing. . . .As for most folks (myself included), the proof is in the performance pudding, not so much final peak HP (or torque) #'s, but if the car drives staggeringly fast. I am attracted to the basic 911 shape, so aesthetically, I'm easy to please (things like the shapes of the air intakes, foglights, even an extra slat on the side intakes aren't "fatal," I could even accept the wheels-but I agree I prefer the old turbo twisties-but these are minor quibbles). BUT I am demanding performance-wise (as are others here
), so I am on pins-and-needles for that reason. 
Speaking of the DB9, I'll be in Florida next month to look at some Aston's (the dealer is supposed to have an AMV8 to test), but I've heard good things about the DB9's V12, even its auto tranny-some say better than Audi's DSG and Ferrari's F1-even though I am a manual tranny guy for sports cars, but this car would serve a different purpose. Have you seen/driven the DB9, manual or auto? Coupe or Volante?
I wondered where you had disappeared to, what with all the 997TT "noise" going on here on rennteam-I thought perhaps you gave up on the 997TT thing. . . .As for most folks (myself included), the proof is in the performance pudding, not so much final peak HP (or torque) #'s, but if the car drives staggeringly fast. I am attracted to the basic 911 shape, so aesthetically, I'm easy to please (things like the shapes of the air intakes, foglights, even an extra slat on the side intakes aren't "fatal," I could even accept the wheels-but I agree I prefer the old turbo twisties-but these are minor quibbles). BUT I am demanding performance-wise (as are others here
), so I am on pins-and-needles for that reason. Speaking of the DB9, I'll be in Florida next month to look at some Aston's (the dealer is supposed to have an AMV8 to test), but I've heard good things about the DB9's V12, even its auto tranny-some say better than Audi's DSG and Ferrari's F1-even though I am a manual tranny guy for sports cars, but this car would serve a different purpose. Have you seen/driven the DB9, manual or auto? Coupe or Volante?
Re: 997TT - New pics??
Yeah, I've been more busy work wise that normal so I haven't been able to visit. Thanks for asking.
There's no reason to be on pins and needles. Expect the car to perform #'s wise just like the 430. Probably beating it slightly in some areas and close in others. There's not going to be any great surprises one way or the other if that's what you're thinking. I'm not concerned about performance. I still don't think the car will have over 460-480 hp and would be SHOCKED to see 500hp but there's no doubt in my mind that the car will be a balls out performer heads above my 996TT, I'm not really worried about that.
RE: DB9 - A good friend of mine has the paddle coupe which I've driven. I've seen quite a few of them, coupe and volante. Styling wise our new TT doesn't compare to the below imo.
There's no reason to be on pins and needles. Expect the car to perform #'s wise just like the 430. Probably beating it slightly in some areas and close in others. There's not going to be any great surprises one way or the other if that's what you're thinking. I'm not concerned about performance. I still don't think the car will have over 460-480 hp and would be SHOCKED to see 500hp but there's no doubt in my mind that the car will be a balls out performer heads above my 996TT, I'm not really worried about that.
RE: DB9 - A good friend of mine has the paddle coupe which I've driven. I've seen quite a few of them, coupe and volante. Styling wise our new TT doesn't compare to the below imo.
Re: 997TT - New pics??
Hey STRADALE,
long time since we heard of you, where have you been? I guess fighting through this thread...
You're busy at the moment, I know.
As mostly, I fully agree with you. 997tt is not bad and will surely blow your mind perfomance-wise, but to me it's a step back to the standard 997, concerning design and looks (not the case with the 993/993tt).
BTW, I guess next week will be THE week, know what I mean?
long time since we heard of you, where have you been? I guess fighting through this thread...
You're busy at the moment, I know.
As mostly, I fully agree with you. 997tt is not bad and will surely blow your mind perfomance-wise, but to me it's a step back to the standard 997, concerning design and looks (not the case with the 993/993tt).
BTW, I guess next week will be THE week, know what I mean?
Re: 997TT - New pics??
Quote:
STRADALE said:
Yeah, I've been more busy work wise that normal so I haven't been able to visit. Thanks for asking.
There's no reason to be on pins and needles. Expect the car to perform #'s wise just like the 430. Probably beating it slightly in some areas and close in others. There's not going to be any great surprises one way or the other if that's what you're thinking. I'm not concerned about performance. I still don't think the car will have over 460-480 hp and would be SHOCKED to see 500hp but there's no doubt in my mind that the car will be a balls out performer heads above my 996TT, I'm not really worried about that.
RE: DB9 - A good friend of mine has the paddle coupe which I've driven. I've seen quite a few of them, coupe and volante. Styling wise our new TT doesn't compare to the below imo.
Stradale, I would be interested in hearing your comments re. the driving experience of the DB9
Re: 997TT - New pics??
I like the car a lot, it looks very mean and agressive, especially in the back! But the most important thing for Porsche always has been PERFORMANCE, and that is the way it has to be!!! I have a question to ask you guys, I like the front of the car, it's not bad at all, but don't you think it still has little camo on it, which means that the front could be a little different in the final version of the car!? Any opinions, any help!? RC, what do you think!? Thanks in advance!!! 
Any opinions, any help!? RC, what do you think!? Thanks in advance!!!
Re: 997TT - New pics??
Yup. Work!work!work!
It's an excellent thread. I read every post. It especially hit home when guys posted pics of the 993TT and that older gold 911 Turbo from above. The older 911's were so much more aggressive partly because the rear and middle of the car was so much narrower than the shape now. The rear might be wider now by measurement but the older cars were much more coke bottle shaped.
re: What you said - I agree not the case with the 993TT but also think not the case with the 996TT. When I saw the 996TT on the road and then drove the car I immediately went out and bought one, a new 2002. I thought it was the nicest looking 996 by far.
I know zactly what you mean. That's awesome !!!!! Don't forget to let me know. k ? 
Gotta run. Take it easy.
It's an excellent thread. I read every post. It especially hit home when guys posted pics of the 993TT and that older gold 911 Turbo from above. The older 911's were so much more aggressive partly because the rear and middle of the car was so much narrower than the shape now. The rear might be wider now by measurement but the older cars were much more coke bottle shaped.
re: What you said - I agree not the case with the 993TT but also think not the case with the 996TT. When I saw the 996TT on the road and then drove the car I immediately went out and bought one, a new 2002. I thought it was the nicest looking 996 by far.
I know zactly what you mean. That's awesome !!!!! Don't forget to let me know. k ?
Gotta run. Take it easy.
Re: 997TT - New pics??
Quote:
STRADALE said:
Yeah, I've been more busy work wise that normal so I haven't been able to visit. Thanks for asking.
There's no reason to be on pins and needles. Expect the car to perform #'s wise just like the 430. Probably beating it slightly in some areas and close in others. There's not going to be any great surprises one way or the other if that's what you're thinking. I'm not concerned about performance. I still don't think the car will have over 460-480 hp and would be SHOCKED to see 500hp but there's no doubt in my mind that the car will be a balls out performer heads above my 996TT, I'm not really worried about that.
RE: DB9 - A good friend of mine has the paddle coupe which I've driven. I've seen quite a few of them, coupe and volante. Styling wise our new TT doesn't compare to the below imo.
Yes, and the Volante looks good, as well. I still wonder if (and when) Bez will supercharge it (and the AMV8).
Dec 14, 2005 11:42:18 PM
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Ron (Houston)
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Dec 15, 2005 12:32:34 AM
- MKW
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Reply to:
Ron (Houston)
Re: 997TT - New pics??
Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
Side by side, Hands down 997TT is the winner. Next to each other, I know it's just a picture, but 996TT looks very dated.
I see shrouded , flattened "upside down" 996 Turbo exhaust tips and one fewer strake in the intercooler exit vents !
Dec 15, 2005 12:50:03 AM
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Ron (Houston)
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Re: 997TT - New pics??
Quote:
brunner said:
I'm actually starting to get used to the front. i guess i'll love it in a couple of days
The side/back is brilliant, imho:
Here's a better comparison:
Nice pix to compare
.The front didn't bother me at all but I was kind of hesitant about the back and now when I compared the 996TT with 997TT I can't wait to see it in person. The lines and curves are so coherent and flow so beautifully in the 997TT.
I like the back too now and can't wait to see the real specs, VGT, Di,....
Dec 15, 2005 12:50:28 AM
- luko
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Dec 15, 2005 1:03:43 AM
- amjf088
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Reply to:
Ron (Houston)
Re: 997TT - New pics??
I REALLY like the new wing. It compliments the tailights well. The indicator strikes on the front end are also very elegant. The foglights (the most controversial item it seems) are an interesting, somewhat retro touch to my eye and I can't put my finger on which late 50's/early 60's competition coupe this reminds me of, but maybe it will come back to me.
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