Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: 997 Turbo HP-Nm - Page1

Dec 13, 2005 8:48:53 PM

CF: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Florida , United States; Posts: 1113, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 30, 2003

997 Turbo HP-Nm

480-490 HP seems to be the final number.

But what about the torque?
To me this is even more interesting than high HP numbers.
With the new technology at hand I believe around 710-740 Nm should be possible.

1400 RPM-640 Nm
1900 RPM-5700 RPM - 710-740 Nm

Fuel consumtion 10% lower than previous model 996 Turbo.

Would this satisfy your needs?

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Dec 13, 2005 9:12:22 PM

Ron (Houston): Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Houston, TX , United States; Posts: 8812, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 10, 2002; Reply to: CF

Re: 997 Turbo HP-Nm

Good enough for me CF

.

Now, any new technologies besides VTG? DI? DSG?

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Dec 13, 2005 9:20:35 PM

CF: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Florida , United States; Posts: 1113, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 30, 2003; Reply to: Ron (Houston)

Re: 997 Turbo HP-Nm

I will be very surprised if Direct Injection is introduced in the Boxster and Cayman before the 997 Turbo, which would be the logical model to introduce such an important technology.

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Dec 13, 2005 9:31:18 PM

Ron (Houston): Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Houston, TX , United States; Posts: 8812, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 10, 2002; Reply to: CF

Re: 997 Turbo HP-Nm

So Boxster and Cayman won't have it then

thanks CF

.

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Dec 13, 2005 9:35:08 PM

Turbo Al: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Rochester, New York , United States; Posts: 2531, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: CF

Re: 997 Turbo HP-Nm

Quote:
CF said:
480-490 HP seems to be the final number.

But what about the torque?
To me this is even more interesting than high HP numbers.
With the new technology at hand I believe around 710-740 Nm should be possible.

1400 RPM-640 Nm
1900 RPM-5700 RPM - 710-740 Nm

Fuel consumtion 10% lower than previous model 996 Turbo.

Would this satisfy your needs?

Depends on kerb weight (and thus power-to-weight ratio

), actual torque curve, plus gearing, plus VTG characteristics-peak boost pressure, spooling time, recovery-all expected to be efficient, which of course influences HP and torque. But 710Nm at as low as 1,900rpm's = 524ft-lb: Sounds potent.

10% lower fuel consumption-per pound or per mile/km at same acceleration/velocity-assuming latter (and assuming fuel tank of equal capacity vs. 996TT), that would mean going 10% farther before having to refuel!

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Dec 14, 2005 1:36:54 AM

BjoernB: Rennteam Master; Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 4100, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 19, 2004; Reply to: CF

Re: 997 Turbo HP-Nm

That is exactly of what I am hoping for. Forget the endless discussions about HP and will it be faster than a 430 , Gallardo etc. The answer is YES ! And since NM is what impresses me already with the 996TT it will feel probably like a 7 Liter "normal" engine - just better with less fuel consumption (later pit-stop....hehehe)

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Dec 14, 2005 4:11:28 AM

Turbo Al: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Rochester, New York , United States; Posts: 2531, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: CF

Re: 997 Turbo HP-Nm

Quote:
CF said:
480-490 HP seems to be the final number.

But what about the torque?
To me this is even more interesting than high HP numbers.
With the new technology at hand I believe around 710-740 Nm should be possible.

1400 RPM-640 Nm
1900 RPM-5700 RPM - 710-740 Nm

Fuel consumtion 10% lower than previous model 996 Turbo.

Would this satisfy your needs?

Here is another way of looking at the 911 torque numbers, from the 996TTS to the 997NAC2, to the 997NAC2S, then to CF's putative #'s for the 997TT torque (converted to lb-ft) at 1,900rpm and max. at listed lowest rpm:

996TTS:
310@1,900
457@3,500

997NAC2:
220@1,900
273@4,250

997NAC2S:
235@1,900
295@4,600

997TT based on CF's torque #'s in NM (converted to lb-ft based on the formula: 1 lb-ft = 1.355818 Nm or 1 Nm = 0.73756):
710(524)@1,900
740(546)@<3,500

Notice the 997TT putatuve torque #'s extrapolated from CF's #'s are much greater than the 996TTS figures (at 1,900rpm's and peak at listed lowest rpm's):
310 to 457(3,500) for 996TTS
524 to 546(?<3,500) for 997TT.

And note down at 1,400rpm, torque from 996TTS to 997TT goes from 185 to 472(

)lb-ft with also a big jump at 1,900 from 310 to 524. Talk about minimal turbo lag!

Assuming only a 100pound weight gain from 996TTS to 997TT, for weights of 3,075/3,131/3,505/3,605 for 997C2/997C2S/996TTS/997TT, then here are some torque-to-weight ratios expressed as weight in lb versus torque in lb-ft at 1,900rpm/and at max. torque:

996TTS: 11.3/7.7
997C2: 14.0/11.3
997C2S: 13.3/10.6
997TT: 6.7/6.6

For these weight-to-torque ratios, the lower the #, the relatively more power for torque. Note that the #'s for the 997TT are lower than all others by a factor of half or more (only the 996TTS peak torque approaches that for the 997TT), so if the VTG's can produce progdigious HP and subsequent torque for rotating the transaxle, especially at lower rpm's as dramatically displayed above, then the 997TT should be a performance beast.

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Dec 14, 2005 4:31:06 AM

BjoernB: Rennteam Master; Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 4100, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 19, 2004; Reply to: Turbo Al

Re: 997 Turbo HP-Nm

I would be very much interested in the 3rd gear 4th gear acceleration compared to a 430/Gallardo/etc - let's say from 62mph or 100km/h onwards - I bet with that torque it will create some smiles...

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Dec 14, 2005 8:58:54 AM

WBH: Expert; Loc: CA; Posts: 1963, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2004; Reply to: Turbo Al

Re: 997 Turbo HP-Nm

Quote:
Al Pettee said:
Quote:
CF said:
480-490 HP seems to be the final number.

But what about the torque?
To me this is even more interesting than high HP numbers.
With the new technology at hand I believe around 710-740 Nm should be possible.

1400 RPM-640 Nm
1900 RPM-5700 RPM - 710-740 Nm

Fuel consumtion 10% lower than previous model 996 Turbo.

Would this satisfy your needs?

Here is another way of looking at the 911 torque numbers, from the 996TTS to the 997NAC2, to the 997NAC2S, then to CF's putative #'s for the 997TT torque (converted to lb-ft) at 1,900rpm and max. at listed lowest rpm:

996TTS:
[Email]310@1[/Email],900
[Email]457@3[/Email],500

997NAC2:
[Email]220@1[/Email],900
[Email]273@4[/Email],250

997NAC2S:
[Email]235@1[/Email],900
[Email]295@4[/Email],600

997TT based on CF's torque #'s in NM (converted to lb-ft based on the formula: 1 lb-ft = 1.355818 Nm or 1 Nm = 0.73756):
710(524)@1,900
740(546)@<3,500

Notice the 997TT putatuve torque #'s extrapolated from CF's #'s are much greater than the 996TTS figures (at 1,900rpm's and peak at listed lowest rpm's):
310 to 457(3,500) for 996TTS
524 to 546(?<3,500) for 997TT.

And note down at 1,400rpm, torque from 996TTS to 997TT goes from 185 to 472( )lb-ft with also a big jump at 1,900 from 310 to 524. Talk about minimal turbo lag!

Assuming only a 100pound weight gain from 996TTS to 997TT, for weights of 3,075/3,131/3,505/3,605 for 997C2/997C2S/996TTS/997TT, then here are some torque-to-weight ratios expressed as weight in lb versus torque in lb-ft at 1,900rpm/and at max. torque:

996TTS: 11.3/7.7
997C2: 14.0/11.3
997C2S: 13.3/10.6
997TT: 6.7/6.6

For these weight-to-torque ratios, the lower the #, the relatively more power for torque. Note that the #'s for the 997TT are lower than all others by a factor of half or more (only the 996TTS peak torque approaches that for the 997TT), so if the VTG's can produce progdigious HP and subsequent torque for rotating the transaxle, especially at lower rpm's as dramatically displayed above, then the 997TT should be a performance beast.

Very helpful summary, Al

If rumored specs are realized, sounds like 997TT will have no turbo lag and have broader, deeper torque band than SL55, in a package that's 800lbs lighter w/AWD trac and P's legendary steering feel, chassis balance and brake pedal feel and fade-resistance...

BTW, chk out Jan's evo and Top Gear reviews of Gallardo SE.....great ex of 520hp car where Lambo engineers clearly can't refine (even 2 yrs post-G car intro) steering feel, brake pedal feel and fade resistance, and e-gear fluidity to compete w/ultra-refined, balanced cars like 996TTS and 430

Simple hp comparos can be incredibly misleading and naive....most of the 500hp+ cars seem to suffer from probs w/some combo of steering feel, brake pedal feel and fade-resistance, chassis balance in non-smooth twisties, etc etc....P and F clearly lead the field in engineering cars where the steering, chassis and brakes seamlessly match the hp-torque of car to achieve their uniquely outstanding driving "feel", and both 430 and 997TT are mere <500hp cars....

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Dec 14, 2005 12:22:44 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: CF

Re: 997 Turbo HP-Nm

Quote:
CF said:
480-490 HP seems to be the final number.

But what about the torque?
To me this is even more interesting than high HP numbers.
With the new technology at hand I believe around 710-740 Nm should be possible.

1400 RPM-640 Nm
1900 RPM-5700 RPM - 710-740 Nm

Fuel consumtion 10% lower than previous model 996 Turbo.

Would this satisfy your needs?

Thanks, Christian.

Well, add 520 HP to the package and Yes, this would definetely satisfy my needs. For now.

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Dec 14, 2005 12:34:43 PM

Nick_Athens: Senior; Loc: Greece , Greece; Posts: 710, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: 997 Turbo HP-Nm

Well, add 520 HP to the package and Yes, this would definetely satisfy my needs. For now.

Do you know something and you dont tell it to us?!

I will get crazy, i see in my dream when i am sleeping that Porsche has announced the press release. i work in my company and i have near to my desk my laptop and i press the F5(refresh) all the time in the Porsche press release page.

Am I crazy already or something?!?!

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Dec 14, 2005 12:50:18 PM

Turbo Al: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Rochester, New York , United States; Posts: 2531, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: Nick_Athens

Re: 997 Turbo HP-Nm

Quote:
Aisxos said:

I will get crazy, i see in my dream when i am sleeping that Porsche has announced the press release. i work in my company and i have near to my desk my laptop and i press the F5(refresh) all the time in the Porsche press release page.

Am I crazy already or something?!?!

And I thought I was impatient.

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Dec 14, 2005 4:12:55 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Nick_Athens

Re: 997 Turbo HP-Nm

Quote:
Aisxos said:

Am I crazy already or something?!?!

Welcome to the "Club", you're one of us now.

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Dec 14, 2005 5:27:42 PM

CF: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Florida , United States; Posts: 1113, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 30, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: 997 Turbo HP-Nm

Please keep in mind that these are my personal dream numbers.
The last 996 GT2 had 483 HP/640 Nm.

If the new engine has 480-490 HP, what torque numbers could it possibly have then? The same as the GT2!

If I am wrong

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Dec 14, 2005 6:01:42 PM

Turbo Al: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Rochester, New York , United States; Posts: 2531, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: CF

Re: 997 Turbo HP-Nm

Quote:
CF said:
Please keep in mind that these are my personal dream numbers.
The last 996 GT2 had 483 HP/640 Nm.

If the new engine has 480-490 HP, what torque numbers could it possibly have then? The same as the GT2!

If I am wrong

But of course, just pure speculation.

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Dec 15, 2005 8:51:59 PM

CF: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Florida , United States; Posts: 1113, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 30, 2003; Reply to: Turbo Al

Re: 997 Turbo HP-Nm

I am almost sure there won't be any PDK/DSG option from the start.

No info at all regarding HP or Nm from my source.

Usually we should have some reliable info by now.
I guess we have to keep speculating.

Unless some of our more informed members from Ludwigsburg can enlighten us.

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Dec 15, 2005 8:57:41 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: CF

Re: 997 Turbo HP-Nm

Quote:
CF said:
I am almost sure there won't be any PDK/DSG option from the start.

No info at all regarding HP or Nm from my source.

Usually we should have some reliable info by now.
I guess we have to keep speculating.

Unless some of our more informed members from Ludwigsburg can enlighten us.

Good sign or bad sign?

Anything below 480 HP would be "suicide" for Porsche. Anything below 490 HP would be pretty dumb from a marketing point of view.
Anything below 500 HP would not be wise since the 997 Turbo isn't lighter than the 996 Turbo.
Anything between 500 and 520 HP would be just perfect. One reason why I think that we won't get it.

Porsche never liked perfection.

So let me do another guess: I have 482, 483, 490 and 499 on my "new" list. And since I got that stupid phone call, I don't want to think about a 5xx power figure. But it would be nice.

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Dec 15, 2005 9:27:05 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12681, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: CF

Re: 997 Turbo HP-Nm

Quote:
CF said:
I am almost sure there won't be any PDK/DSG option from the start.

No info at all regarding HP or Nm from my source.

Usually we should have some reliable info by now.
I guess we have to keep speculating.

Unless some of our more informed members from Ludwigsburg can enlighten us.

I heard in another forum, that PDK will available from March 2006 (what means right from the start). Don't ask me how reliable that source is...

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Dec 15, 2005 9:30:31 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: Rossi

Re: 997 Turbo HP-Nm

Quote:
Rossi said:
Quote:
CF said:
I am almost sure there won't be any PDK/DSG option from the start.

No info at all regarding HP or Nm from my source.

Usually we should have some reliable info by now.
I guess we have to keep speculating.

Unless some of our more informed members from Ludwigsburg can enlighten us.

I heard in another forum, that PDK will available from March 2006 (what means right from the start). Don't ask me how reliable that source is...

Exactly, you can never know how reliable newbies are... But still it could be the truth

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Dec 15, 2005 10:01:33 PM

AndrewSS: Senior; Loc: columbus, OH; Posts: 587, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 4, 2004; Reply to: Nick_Athens

Re: 997 Turbo HP-Nm

Can someone explain what pdk is? Thanks...

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Dec 15, 2005 10:40:14 PM

DRA: Junior; Loc: Melbourne , Australia; Posts: 97, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 18, 2003; Reply to: AndrewSS

Re: 997 Turbo HP-Nm

Quote:
AndrewSS said:
Can someone explain what pdk is? Thanks...

Porsche's version of this:

http://www.germancarfans.com/photos.cfm/PhotoID/3021129.001/volkswagen/1.html

PDK is the name given to an earlier system used in the 962 racecar.

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Dec 16, 2005 12:44:56 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Rossi

Re: 997 Turbo HP-Nm

Quote:
Rossi said:
I heard in another forum, that PDK will available from March 2006 (what means right from the start). Don't ask me how reliable that source is...

Et tu, Brute?

Since when do you trust other forums?

A little hint: since the dealer introduction event is AFTER March 2006, it is not very likely that the car will be at dealers around march.

Another hint: I tried to keep June 2006 pretty much free of business appointments or any other important stuff.

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Dec 16, 2005 11:54:11 AM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12681, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: 997 Turbo HP-Nm

Quote:
RC said:
Et tu, Brute? Since when do you trust other forums? A little hint: since the dealer introduction event is AFTER March 2006, it is not very likely that the car will be at dealers around march. Another hint: I tried to keep June 2006 pretty much free of business appointments or any other important stuff.

Gosh, I don't!

But I try to keep myself informed a little bit, you know?

And I know that thing about March, but since the production should start around that time, I thought the "other source" was referring to that. But of course we all at rennteam know better...

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Dec 16, 2005 11:59:08 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Rossi

Re: 997 Turbo HP-Nm

Whoever has to pick up a car in february/march/april will be very delighted to see a lot of Turbos around the factory.

If only that damn press release would be released...

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Dec 16, 2005 6:00:53 PM

CF: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Florida , United States; Posts: 1113, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 30, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: 997 Turbo HP-Nm

Regarding the 997 GT3.
How do you think Porsche is going to extract 405-415 HP from the old GT1 block with full warranty and reliability?

That's 112,5 - 115,3 hp/liter.

It seems a bit stressed even for Porsche, unless they have resorted to Direct Injection.

The 997 GT3 and 997 Turbo use the same GT1 base/block engine.

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