Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST" - Page1

Dec 8, 2005 11:48:17 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: boytronic

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

Quote:
boytronic said:
Was production ever restricted on the 996 Turbo? If not, I can't see anyone ever waiting for a long time to get a new 997 Turbo, no matter where they are on the list (in contrast to the lovely F430's list).

Is production limited on the F430?

Ferrari wants to build around 4000 cars per year.
Why people want to put themselves on the list for a 997 Turbo? Simple. They want one early, not after two years or shortly before the production ends.

I remember people paying 30000-50000 USD premium to get one of the first 996 Turbo, even after 6 months after the official introduction to the US market. I doubt that this will ever happen again but IF the 997 Turbo is the product people are hoping for, it may be a very succesful car.
Over here in Germany, the delivery situation is usually much less tense. You can get almost all Porsche models within 3-4 months, depending on the quota the dealer has.

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Dec 9, 2005 3:13:39 AM

jonquiljo: Junior; Loc: SF Bay Area - Marin; Posts: 85, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 14, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

Now the problem I am finding is that different dealer say different things. One says that i'd be #10 today, one says #7. The all say that they will have the highest allocation. I'm not sure there is any good way to find the reality on this. They all want different $ amounts as well.

Frankly I'm a bit puzzled as how to handle it.

One question I have is whether the TT or TTS will be available from the same allocation spot????

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Dec 9, 2005 3:38:36 AM

WBH: Expert; Loc: CA; Posts: 1963, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2004; Reply to: jonquiljo

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

Quote:
jonquiljo said:
Now the problem I am finding is that different dealer say different things. One says that i'd be #10 today, one says #7. The all say that they will have the highest allocation. I'm not sure there is any good way to find the reality on this. They all want different $ amounts as well.

Frankly I'm a bit puzzled as how to handle it.

One question I have is whether the TT or TTS will be available from the same allocation spot????

Why are you surprised???? Unless one just got money yest, have no excuse to not have chosen a P/F dealer w/which to build relationships by now. Most P dealers in places like SF (arguably the world's richest urban region) are fairly affluent (it's an incredibly easy franchise location to print money) and in places like SF each of the dealers in any reasonably affluent areas have to think about who has spent the most money at their dealer in last 2-3 yrs and allocate the 997TT list economically rationally.....it's business common sense, right???? No rational business guy simply does wait lists in alphabetic order/first come-first-serve.....one prioritizes guys who've paid you the most over past 2-3 yrs and are likely to be around to pay you well over coming yrs.....

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Dec 9, 2005 3:53:25 AM

jonquiljo: Junior; Loc: SF Bay Area - Marin; Posts: 85, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 14, 2005; Reply to: WBH

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

Quote:

Why are you surprised????

Actually I'm not. I've bought 911's from 2 dealers over the years - and I will go with one of them. I may need some time to figure out which one, however.

Each dealer will tell me where I can get on the list if I give them money now. Thats not the problem. The problem is that they are unsure of their allocations, and certainly aren't going to tell me which one has the highest allocation.

In any case, I am now getting prepared to wait a full year. That sucks, but it could be worse. Hell, I may not live that long.

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Dec 9, 2005 6:14:17 AM

silverrules: Senior; Loc: N. Calif , United States; Posts: 784, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 5, 2005; Reply to: jonquiljo

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

I have my name down but waiting on specs before making my mind. F430 is very tempting as well but long wait.

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Dec 9, 2005 6:24:22 PM

BD 997: Veteran; Loc: Boston, MA USA; Posts: 833, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 16, 2005; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

#3 here in Boston, MA USA

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Dec 9, 2005 7:08:03 PM

edz: Rennteam Pro; Loc: South Orange County; Posts: 2022, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: BD 997

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

I want to get on the list so bad but if I do, then I will not enjoy the 997S i just bought as I will keep thinking about the 997TT. The 997TT will be rare like any other hot car that 1st hits the market but within 6 months you will be able to locate them in Southern CA at more relaxed of a price

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Dec 10, 2005 4:47:38 AM

jonquiljo: Junior; Loc: SF Bay Area - Marin; Posts: 85, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 14, 2005; Reply to: edz

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

Well, I think I chose my dealer. It boiled down to the one that gave me the most information and to the one that I thought would get the biggest allocation. My check goes out tomorrow.

I was told that the TT will probably come first and the TTS later. How much later is unclear. A TT will be enough power for me. At least I have several months to figure out where I will get the cash. Hopefully in that time the people ahead of me on the list will have given up on theirs.

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Dec 11, 2005 4:20:24 AM

Van911Turbo: Newbie; Loc: GA; Posts: 15, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 11, 2004; Reply to: jonquiljo

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

I got on the list today. My sale guy told me that the 977TT will be 500 Hp and 0 to 60 Mph under 3.5 sec and cost around 150K and Porsche will not make the 977 TTS version. My sale guy so far has been very reliable.

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Dec 11, 2005 7:18:20 AM

jonquiljo: Junior; Loc: SF Bay Area - Marin; Posts: 85, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 14, 2005; Reply to: BD 997

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

Quote:
BD 997 said:
#3 here in Boston, MA USA

[censored], I had to settle for #11. Oh well.

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Dec 11, 2005 10:34:40 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: Van911Turbo

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

Quote:
Van911s said:
I got on the list today. My sale guy told me that the 977TT will be 500 Hp and 0 to 60 Mph under 3.5 sec and cost around 150K and Porsche will not make the 977 TTS version. My sale guy so far has been very reliable.

I am absolutely positive that at least the statement regarding the TTS is wrong. Rest assured that there will be a TTS with more power. The X50/TTS version has proven to be the best way for Porsche to earn some extra margin.

P.S.: The only question is when the TTS version will be introduced...

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Dec 11, 2005 12:10:52 PM

TheOldMan: Co-Pilot; Loc: Montreal, Canada; Posts: 214, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 27, 2004; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

Before putting my name on a list for the new 997TT I will wait to see what the new car can do. At least for me, there is little value in rushing this. If the new Turbo is released in the Summer of 2006, the earliest deliveries to Canada will be the September/October, just as the winter approaches. It will be better to order during the winter months and get a new car in the spring of '07. Maybe I am naive, but I have no reason to think that there will be a problem in ordering one next winter for a spring delivery.

This is essentially what happened for my 997S and the car has been flawless. There is something to be said for production experience. The first cars will be on the 'bleeding edge' and small problems are normal. I have been burnt one too many times with new products, so for me, waiting a few months should work out just fine.

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Dec 11, 2005 5:44:23 PM

Turbo Al: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Rochester, New York , United States; Posts: 2531, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: Van911Turbo

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

Quote:
Van911s said:
I got on the list today. My sale guy told me that the 977TT will be 500 Hp and 0 to 60 Mph under 3.5 sec and cost around 150K and Porsche will not make the 977 TTS version. My sale guy so far has been very reliable.

I hope your sales guy is accurate re. the 997TT power/performance #'s, BUT his view that there will be no TTS is simply a way to get you to go for the TT, rather than await the TTS.

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Dec 11, 2005 7:50:23 PM

Van911Turbo: Newbie; Loc: GA; Posts: 15, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 11, 2004; Reply to: Turbo Al

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

Actually, I told him that I want to be on both lists because I plan to trade in TT when the TTS come out. So actually he will be make more money because he can sell me twice. I really don't care about TT, TTS or 500. I will get me a 997 TT period because I always want a 911 turbo. Currently, I own 997 C2S and I just love the car to death.

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Dec 11, 2005 8:55:00 PM

Turbo Al: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Rochester, New York , United States; Posts: 2531, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: Van911Turbo

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

Quote:
Van911s said:
Actually, I told him that I want to be on both lists because I plan to trade in TT when the TTS come out. So actually he will be make more money because he can sell me twice. I really don't care about TT, TTS or 500. I will get me a 997 TT period because I always want a 911 turbo. Currently, I own 997 C2S and I just love the car to death.

I know the feeling, I was "there" this past summer, since I couldn't wait another year, I went with the 996TSCab, but I still wanted a TCoupe, and when I heard about the Noble M400, and tested it I couldn't resist. I still have no doubt there will be a 997TTS, as stated, it's just a matter of when. . . .

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Dec 12, 2005 3:29:04 PM

edz: Rennteam Pro; Loc: South Orange County; Posts: 2022, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: jonquiljo

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

I don't guys but I don't buy under 3.5 seconds 0-60 for the 997TT. Would Porsche make the 997TT faster than the CGT???

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Dec 12, 2005 4:59:41 PM

VS+: Junior; Loc: Long Island, NY; Posts: 59, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2002; Reply to: edz

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

Why not? They stopped making CGTs, now they can do all they want to help sales of the new model

BTW, CGT is not particularly fast 0 to 60, in its class. Not a problem, IMHO, and I vote with my dollar: I am on the market for a "slightly used" CGT (any tips ?)

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Dec 12, 2005 6:01:39 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: VS+

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

Quote:
VS+ said:
Why not? They stopped making CGTs, now they can do all they want to help sales of the new model

BTW, CGT is not particularly fast 0 to 60, in its class. Not a problem, IMHO, and I vote with my dollar: I am on the market for a "slightly used" CGT (any tips ?)

There are over 50 for sale in Autotrader. You probably can pick up a used one for around $375,000. A new one for about $400,000. Regardless of its performance, it is a Porsche and it will depreciate like a falling brick.

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Dec 12, 2005 6:59:11 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

Quote:
nberry said:There are over 50 for sale in Autotrader. You probably can pick up a used one for around $375,000. A new one for about $400,000. Regardless of its performance, it is a Porsche and it will depreciate like a falling brick.

If someone can buy a new one for $400k and then sell it used for $375k, I'd say that is great resale value...

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Dec 12, 2005 8:06:20 PM

VS+: Junior; Loc: Long Island, NY; Posts: 59, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

"Regardless of its performance, it is a Porsche and it will depreciate like a falling brick."

Thank you Nick, I counted on something like this coming from you. Of course, for only 350k I could buy an F430 spider and THAT car would retain its value for the ages to come!

The cars in Autotrader, are they moving at those prices, or just sitting there?

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Dec 13, 2005 3:59:26 AM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: VS+

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

Quote:
VS+ said:
"Regardless of its performance, it is a Porsche and it will depreciate like a falling brick."

Thank you Nick, I counted on something like this coming from you. Of course, for only 350k I could buy an F430 spider and THAT car would retain its value for the ages to come!

The cars in Autotrader, are they moving at those prices, or just sitting there?

If you will not believe me, would you believe EVO magazine a notoriously pro Porsche magazine? Have a look

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/evo/news/62436/supercar_price_roulette.html

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Dec 13, 2005 4:52:27 AM

OCEAN: Expert; Loc: US; Posts: 1334, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 28, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

Quote:
There are over 50 for sale in Autotrader. You probably can pick up a used one for around $375,000. A new one for about $400,000.

more like 325-350 for a used one and falling..........

VS+ if you were on the list like nberry and many others you would be able to buy at MSRP (a little over 200K) get a new car every few years and loose next to nothing and have a car that is more fun to drive than a Porsche . I am a Porsche diehard and have been for many years but the routine that nberry is doing is another level of driving pleasure and depreciation .
Now that we are looking at the real pictures of the 997TT I can not imagine the cab version anything close to the looks and styling of a 430 Spider that nberry is driving . The 997TT is really kind of a missed oportunity for Porsche when it comes to the look of the top of the line model ............... I am left going "is that all there is " like many others are saying today as we see these new pictures . The after market stuff does not really help the 430's looks Ferrari got it right at the factory with the new 997TT I think the after-market companies hold the keys in taking the looks of the car where Porsche should have.

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Dec 13, 2005 2:46:17 PM

VS+: Junior; Loc: Long Island, NY; Posts: 59, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2002; Reply to: OCEAN

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

" more like 325-350 for a used one and falling.......... "

Is this range based on REAL trades, or this is just a hyperbole? If this IS real, please let me know. So far, I cannot find anything below 380.

I do believe that the CGT market is soft, I do agree that the bottom could be in the mid 200's, and I am not in a particular rush to buy this car. But if I could pick up a CGT with a couple thousand miles for 325k, I would take it.

"VS+ if you were on the list like nberry and many others you would be able to buy at MSRP (a little over 200K) get a new car every few years and loose next to nothing and have a car that is more fun to drive than a Porsche . I am a Porsche diehard and have been for many years but the routine that nberry is doing is another level of driving pleasure and depreciation"

Point is, I was not "on the list", so I'd have to pay 240k for the coupe and prob 320k for the spider version of F430.
Unlike CGT, F430 is not a long time keeper. If I drive it the way I drive my 996TT, I stand to loose 80-100k when I trade it in (look at where F360s are now).

The whole Ferrari demand-supply situation seems to be very artificial. From my perspective, there is a strong flavour of the old Ponzzo scheme. I am not saying it does not work, or that it will not work for a while; all I know is that it will break at some point.

Ocean, are you in NYC/LI area?

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Dec 13, 2005 3:09:42 PM

OCEAN: Expert; Loc: US; Posts: 1334, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 28, 2004; Reply to: VS+

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

LA/Miami ................. you can pick up a used CGT for 350K but if you wait it could go a lot lower and the miles on the car may not be too different . I am not on the 430 list like you so the shuffle that nberry and those guys are doing is not an option for me , or I would go that route instead of a new 997TT ... I sold my 996TT and lost a little over 40K in a year so the Porsche loss is kind of steep compared to these guys buying 430's at sticker . My neighbor in Miami sold his CGT and took around 350K he was in a rush to sell and let it go cheap he bought at MSPR a year ago so he lost 100K in a year.

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Dec 13, 2005 4:57:40 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: VS+

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

VS it is true that you will pay a premium over sticker to buy a 430. However in doing so you get into the program which means future Ferrari's at MSRP and little operating costs.

Used 360's sold for MSRP even when they were 5 years old. The 360 Spider sold for above MSRP until just recently.

What you need to consider is the huge depreciation of a Porsche compared to the premium paid for a Ferrari. With the Porsche you remain in the vicious cycle of buy a car, lose a ton of money and do it all over again.. With the Ferrari, pay more now and secure your future purchases at MSRP and world class sport car enjoyment at a very modest cost if any.

A no brainer for me.

BTW, the CGT maintenance cost really kick in around 20,000 miles. A value adjustment is required. The engine must be remove and the values adjusted in a dirt/dust free environment. Just to take the under carriage off, requires the removal of over 150 color coded screws which must be put back in their individual screw holes. The job is very labor intensive. A clutch replacement is over $25,000.

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Dec 13, 2005 5:15:31 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

Quote:
nberry said:
VS it is true that you will pay a premium over sticker to buy a 430. However in doing so you get into the program which means future Ferrari's at MSRP and little operating costs.

Used 360's sold for MSRP even when they were 5 years old. The 360 Spider sold for above MSRP until just recently.

What you need to consider is the huge depreciation of a Porsche compared to the premium paid for a Ferrari. With the Porsche you remain in the vicious cycle of buy a car, lose a ton of money and do it all over again.. With the Ferrari, pay more now and secure your future purchases at MSRP and world class sport car enjoyment at a very modest cost if any.

A no brainer for me.

BTW, the CGT maintenance cost really kick in around 20,000 miles. A value adjustment is required. The engine must be remove and the values adjusted in a dirt/dust free environment. Just to take the under carriage off, requires the removal of over 150 color coded screws which must be put back in their individual screw holes. The job is very labor intensive. A clutch replacement is over $25,000.

So, did you need to pay over the premium to get into the cycle?

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Dec 13, 2005 5:46:13 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Crash

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

No but knowing what I know today I would. I love the car and I do not take a financial bath driving it.

Porsche makes an excellent car but you are well aware of my issues with the company. FWIW, I honestly believe they are on the wrong path.

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Dec 13, 2005 8:48:29 PM

VS+: Junior; Loc: Long Island, NY; Posts: 59, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

Nick,

you have a PM

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Dec 13, 2005 9:31:36 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: 997TT - How many people on the "LIST"

Quote:
nberry said:
No but knowing what I know today I would. I love the car and I do not take a financial bath driving it.

Porsche makes an excellent car but you are well aware of my issues with the company. FWIW, I honestly believe they are on the wrong path.

I tend to agree with you on this issue. Porsche might be well suited to just grab up as much money as possible, buy shares of other large manufacturers and then just revert to the low volume manufacturer they once were. That would surely boost the marque prestige.

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