Crown
Board: Porsche - 911 - 997
Language: English
Region: Worldwide
Close
CloseForum - Thread
Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............
Lorenzo: How do you like the Gransport, that is a beautiful car and the more I see it the more I like it. Maserati was so hot many years ago, the kamsin, Bora, Merak, the legendry Urraco and Mura, then it fell apart until Ferrai bought them out and now they are hot hot hot 
Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............
yes i agree rolex is the best watch available ,but i hate the fact that half of the people around me are wearing one ,i will be much happier with an audemars piguet montoya limited edition..
I could not agree more. Now that is the Ferrari of watches.
I could not agree more. Now that is the Ferrari of watches.
Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............
Quote:
edz61 said:
Lorenzo: How do you like the Gransport, that is a beautiful car and the more I see it the more I like it. Maserati was so hot many years ago, the kamsin, Bora, Merak, the legendry Urraco and Mura, then it fell apart until Ferrai bought them out and now they are hot hot hot
I used to have a Coupe CambioCorsa before the Gransport and I absolutely loved it. It had great performance was extremely stylish and could fit four adults very comfortably and surprisingly was not very expensive. I had paid just over 100k euros for the car in October 2002.
Last summer my father wanted to acquire a new sedan so we were looking to check out the QP. When i got to the dealership I saw the Gransport for the first time and let me tell you what a car. It was black with black grey 2 tone seats, 19inch rims, etc. etc. The dealer had not been able to sell it for 6 months so I got a 20% percent reduction and traded in my CC for it.
I use it as my daily driver and its absolutely devine. Everything that the CC was the Gransport is more. Many people dont seem to like the car however. Compared to a fully loaded C4S the Maserati is way cheaper and I think looks way better but than again its personal taste.
I would recommend it as a great alternative instead of a 997(Please dont shoot me)
Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............
Quote:
20C4S said:
RC,
just curious. have u driven the Lamborghini Murcielago yet?
maybe it's just me. i drove one & hated it. maybe just me but it felt so damn heavy, handled poorly & uncomfortable to drive. car felt aged & the built quality is not there. can't beat the look though...
that's just my person opinion. if i'm looking for a driver's Lambo i'd take the Gallardo anyday.
I drove a mod.2003 when it comes out. You are right the car has poor seats, the handling is only for the motorway. I was very dissap. when i drove the car. The build quality for the price is a joke. Only the sound of the engine make me smile.
Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............
Quote:
20C4S said:
RC,
just curious. have u driven the Lamborghini Murcielago yet?
maybe it's just me. i drove one & hated it. maybe just me but it felt so damn heavy, handled poorly & uncomfortable to drive. car felt aged & the built quality is not there. can't beat the look though...
that's just my person opinion. if i'm looking for a driver's Lambo i'd take the Gallardo anyday.
Yes, I had the luck to drive a Murcielago long enough to get in love with this car. It may feel heavy (I'd say it is the steering setup but of course this car is no lightweight) but it drives like on train rails. Handling is spectacular, the look is even more spectacular and when you sit inside this monster, you get the feeling of sitting in the cockpit of a space ship.
And I won't even speak about the sound of the engine and exhaust.
In my opinion, the Murcielago is one of the most underestimated sportscars in the world, people think of it as the bigger, heavier and more expensive brother of the Gallardo but the truth is: it is a different kind of beast, offering almost the same if not better performance.
And I hope I don't tell you guys a secret: around 620 HP are rumored for the next facelift, coming next year.Look at the track time in Hockenheim (Kleiner Kurs): 1 min 12 sec. With street tires, no semi-slicks! Wow!!!
Nordschleife in 7 min 50 sec, same: street tires. Again Wow!!!
From 0-125 mph, the Murcielago needs around 12.8 seconds, this is F430 time. But the new 620 HP version is rumored at under 12 seconds. Wow again.
And finally: top speed at 330 kph but there are claims that the Murcielago achieves even real 335-340 kph. With the "old" engine.
Yes, in my opinion the Lamborghini Murcielago is the last "affordable" supersportscar of the "old" kind and I truely hope that Porsche does a better job with the 997 Turbo this time than they did with the 996 Turbo.
And a last point I'd like to make: why is everybody comparing the five years old 996 Turbo with the new F430?
Look at the handling difference betwenn the 996 and the 997 and you realize what a couple of years of development mean.
IF somebody compares the F430 to a Porsche, it has to be the 997 Turbo, not the 996 Turbo. And since we don't know the final specs yet...
Regarding resale value and production numbers: Ferrari plans to build as many F430 as Porsche built 996 Turbo. So the F430 may be in high demand right now and resale value may be still very high but wait another two years when over 10000(!) F430 made it to customers. And we talk again by then.
And as a really last word I would like to add the words of a Porsche engineer (when I told him my worries about the 997 Turbo performance compared to the current competition): "Don't worry, we always make them a tick faster". Unfortunately I can't describe the grin on his face but it looked very convincing. Of course he may be just proud of his company and maybe the 997 Turbo will disappoint us. If so, we'll have enough time in the future to brag about it and to tell ourselves how horrible the 997 Turbo is. IF true. Til then: happy motoring in the F430 but don't be disappointed if we're right about the 997 Turbo. Sh.t happens...like my italian friends used to say.
Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............
Quote:
edz61 said:
yes i agree rolex is the best watch available ,but i hate the fact that half of the people around me are wearing one ,i will be much happier with an audemars piguet montoya limited edition..
I could not agree more. Now that is the Ferrari of watches.
Unfortunately has become narcotraficantes watch of choice in my neck of the woods. The Richard Mille or the Graham are great though
Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............
Lorenzo: This is a beauty man. No worries about the 997 comment. I have an 06 997S but your comment did not bother me. Hey we can't all have the same taste. So you live in London? I have been there 12 times, I used to go to bornemouth every summer, just loved it there
Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............
I was just saying the MSRP of a 997TT will be very close to the MSRP of a 430 and for many if they drove the cars back to back and both could be had at MSRP the car most fun to drive could now go to the 430 and not the 911 . Porsche is really going to have to make big advances with the 997TT becuase as it stands now the 996TT is no where near the car that the 430 is .
I am telling you go drive this car and you will see why so many are making the switch from Ferrari to Porsche . Porsche probably does not not care that much they are going for the mass market now that is where the money is . Seems like the 997 is even marketed for a whole new demographic now , it all changed with the 996 and for Ferrari it all changed with the 430 .
I am telling you go drive this car and you will see why so many are making the switch from Ferrari to Porsche . Porsche probably does not not care that much they are going for the mass market now that is where the money is . Seems like the 997 is even marketed for a whole new demographic now , it all changed with the 996 and for Ferrari it all changed with the 430 .
Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............
Quote:
LorenzoB said:
I would recommend it as a great alternative instead of a 997(Please dont shoot me)
The main reason I am not in the F market is that I have no dealer nearby, so it is harder for me to get "in the loop" as a regular F customer, and given the demand>supply, it adds a disincentive. BUT I am no F-basher even though I'm a Porschephile. I love the Turbo concept, to me NA engines simply "waste" their exhaust,
but that's just a personal preference. I am a recent Noble buyer (M400) due next spring, my first car purchased without a local "dealer," but that was easy-I test drove one (M400 this fall), purchased one 2 weeks later, chassis shipping (it's a "component" or "kit" car) on 12/14, due in US for final "assembly" by end of 2/06, pickup around March or April of 2006. BUT I might still become an F buyer yet-if something even better (faster) than the F430 comes around-no, I don't think I'll go for an Enzo-at least not yet.
Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............
Quote:
edz61 said:
Lorenzo: This is a beauty man. No worries about the 997 comment. I have an 06 997S but your comment did not bother me. Hey we can't all have the same taste. So you live in London? I have been there 12 times, I used to go to bornemouth every summer, just loved it there
Love London been here 2 years finishing up uni. My favorite city in Europe by far
Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............
Quote:
RC said:
And a last point I'd like to make: why is everybody comparing the five years old 996 Turbo with the new F430?
Look at the handling difference betwenn the 996 and the 997 and you realize what a couple of years of development mean.
IF somebody compares the F430 to a Porsche, it has to be the 997 Turbo, not the 996 Turbo. And since we don't know the final specs yet...
Ah, come on RC, you're talking nonsense now. I can understand your passion for Porsche, but you should try to stay fair-minded. Of course the 996tt is the appropriate model of Porsche to be compared to the F430, simply because it is the ONLY model currently available from Porsche that can be compared to the F430 regarding price, acceleration, top speed and so on. And there's no sense in complaining about the age of one model, as different car brands have different models with different life cycles.
When the new 997tt will hit the road, which will be nearly two years after the presentation of the F430, THIS Porsche model will be the accurate opponent for the F430. But I guess nobody, including you, will ever moan, that this comparision is unfair, because of the 997tt being two years younger and having an advantage regarding the technological development possible in two years time. And by that time Porsche surely had the time, to REACT to Ferrari's fabulous F430.
And one last word: I'm absolutely sure if Ferrari hadn't spend its F430 a whopping 490hp, we would never see a 997tt with the now predicted 480hp. If the F430 had only had 465hp (as was the saying at the very beginning of the speculation about the Modena successor), we would see a 997tt with the maximum of 460hp, maybe even less.
But then again if Lamborghini hadn't shown up with a 500hp-Gallardo, Ferrari would have never gone to 490hp in the Modena successor. And that brings us back to the very beginning, the last car to be presented has always the advantage to react to its competitors and therefore has the chance to take the crown. So let's see if Porsche succeeds...
Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............
Quote:
Rossi said:Quote:
RC said:
Of course the 996tt is the appropriate model of Porsche to be compared to the F430, simply because it is the ONLY model currently available from Porsche
Are you sure you could still order a new 996TT or TTS
Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............
Although that's a little bit splitting hairs...
The 996tt/tts is still on the German Porsche website, but even if we are in the middle of a modelchange, as long as the 997tt isn't available (or not even presented), the 996tt is the only opponent from Porsche for the F430.
The 996tt/tts is still on the German Porsche website, but even if we are in the middle of a modelchange, as long as the 997tt isn't available (or not even presented), the 996tt is the only opponent from Porsche for the F430.
Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............
Quote:
Rossi said:
Although that's a little bit splitting hairs...
The 996tt/tts is still on the German Porsche website, but even if we are in the middle of a modelchange, as long as the 997tt isn't available (or not even presented), the 996tt is the only opponent from Porsche for the F430.
Why isn't the GT2 the only opponent? Arguments please? The F430 has 490 HP, the GT2 has 483. The F430 weight is in the GT2 weight league. Price tag is almost the same too if you take in consideration that the GT2 has the PCCB brake as a standard option. And finally, both cars have 2WD and not 4WD like the 996 Turbo. Now look at the performance/handling figures: why the heck is the 2 years old GT2, which is completely based on the "old" 996 technical design, faster than the new F430?
Even the older GT2 MkI performs better on the track than the F430, considering that it used street tires and not semi-slicks.
The 996 Turbo isn't available anymore, Porsche seems to keep the specs and pictures only available for marketing reasons and to keep the "Turbo fever" up and running.
Sorry, the real competitor for the F430 is indeed the 997 Turbo. The F360 also came earlier than the 996 Turbo, I remember my first F360 encounter in Italy on my way to the Cote d'Azur back in July 2000. He had no chance. I know that the F430 is a different kind of beast and Ferrari did a great job. But don't be disappointed if this "glory" worked only for a few months.
Sh.t happens.
Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............
An F430 is one of the most spectacular cars around.
It will be interesting to see what the actual price and performance on the 997 TT is. The prices of a 996 TT S and F430 actually aren't THAT close (to people like me) - something like 136K to 175K base to base. In that light, I agree with the earlier post that suggested a GT2 is a more realistic comparison.
But how can you go wrong with any of these cars?
It will be interesting to see what the actual price and performance on the 997 TT is. The prices of a 996 TT S and F430 actually aren't THAT close (to people like me) - something like 136K to 175K base to base. In that light, I agree with the earlier post that suggested a GT2 is a more realistic comparison.
But how can you go wrong with any of these cars?
Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............
Quote:
LorenzoB said:Quote:
dhayek said:
yes i agree rolex is the best watch available ,but i hate the fact that half of the people around me are wearing one ,i will be much happier with an audemars piguet montoya limited edition..
I could not agree more. Now that is the Ferrari of watches.
Unfortunately has become narcotraficantes watch of choice in my neck of the woods. The Richard Mille or the Graham are great though
richard mille? you are talking about a 400000euro watch...
Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............
igzaklee ... let's hope someone at Porshe is reading this .... I should have never driven the 430 those of you who have no what I mean . I did not want to start a Ferrari vs Porsche thread just wanted to see if there were more like me who felt that if the 430 could be bought for MSRP would they be looking into a Ferrari purchase as an alternative to another Porsche purchase .
P.S.
The new 18K white gold Rolex Daytona that has the white gold band is kind of a nice new addition to the Rolex line .....
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-Daytona-18K-Wh...1QQcmdZViewItem
those of you who have no what I mean . I did not want to start a Ferrari vs Porsche thread just wanted to see if there were more like me who felt that if the 430 could be bought for MSRP would they be looking into a Ferrari purchase as an alternative to another Porsche purchase .
P.S.
The new 18K white gold Rolex Daytona that has the white gold band is kind of a nice new addition to the Rolex line .....
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-Daytona-18K-Wh...1QQcmdZViewItem
Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............
Quote:
RC said:
Why isn't the GT2 the only opponent? Arguments please? The F430 has 490 HP, the GT2 has 483. The F430 weight is in the GT2 weight league. Price tag is almost the same too if you take in consideration that the GT2 has the PCCB brake as a standard option. And finally, both cars have 2WD and not 4WD like the 996 Turbo. Now look at the performance/handling figures: why the heck is the 2 years old GT2, which is completely based on the "old" 996 technical design, faster than the new F430?
Even the older GT2 MkI performs better on the track than the F430, considering that it used street tires and not semi-slicks.
The 996 Turbo isn't available anymore, Porsche seems to keep the specs and pictures only available for marketing reasons and to keep the "Turbo fever" up and running.
Sorry, the real competitor for the F430 is indeed the 997 Turbo. The F360 also came earlier than the 996 Turbo, I remember my first F360 encounter in Italy on my way to the Cote d'Azur back in July 2000. He had no chance. I know that the F430 is a different kind of beast and Ferrari did a great job. But don't be disappointed if this "glory" worked only for a few months.
BS, BS, BS.
RC, I somehow get the feeling that you are to the F-lovers excactly what Nick is to the P-lovers.
The 997tt WILL be the opponent, when it's finally released. But not before that date, the 996tt has to do the job. Period.
I didn't take the GT2, as I consider it to be something like a special version of the standard turbo. Much more focused on the track than on normal roads. More a competitor to an upcoming 430CS, if there ever will be one. I compared base model to base model. Price tag of the GT2 was something around 185k, so even if you take away the PCCB for 8k, this price is still more than 30 grand above the price of a F430. Sorry, I can't see a same price range here.
(But even if you take the GT2, I'd say these cars are equal, which isn't bad for a base model as the F430.
)All other comments which car is better because it is newer see my post above.
Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............
RC when you drive the 430 you will understand , in your particular situation you may still need to buy the Porsche like myself , but after a test drive of the Ferrari I think you will find that the car is really more fun to drive than the Porsche . I never thought I would say that but I think it would be hard to find anyone who would drive the 2 cars back to back and say the Porsche was more fun to drive . I understand the back seats for the kids .. and the tax stuff... and the attracting too much attention ,,, practicality .. et ... but for pure fun this car is really the hands down winner and yet I will buy the Porsche as I can not pay 100k over sticker for the spider .
Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............
Quote:
LorenzoB said:Quote:
edz61 said:
yes i agree rolex is the best watch available ,but i hate the fact that half of the people around me are wearing one ,i will be much happier with an audemars piguet montoya limited edition..
I could not agree more. Now that is the Ferrari of watches.
The day Rolex makes better watch than Lange&Söhne.... - you just can't beat german engineering
(Lange&Söhne is located in Glashütte, Germany)
I would rather say that that Rolex is the Porsche of watches, it is sturdy, well built and can be used everyday. But have you seen the inside of a Rolex watch? Just like a Porsche, they are now match (on the inside) for a Lange or Patek, the Ferraris of the watchworld IMO.
Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............
Quote:
RC said:
Yes, I had the luck to drive a Murcielago long enough to get in love with this car. It may feel heavy (I'd say it is the steering setup but of course this car is no lightweight) but it drives like on train rails. Handling is spectacular, the look is even more spectacular and when you sit inside this monster, you get the feeling of sitting in the cockpit of a space ship.
And I won't even speak about the sound of the engine and exhaust.
You don't have to, it can speak for itself
:
Lamborghini Murciélago with a Tubi Style Exhaust idling and speeding away from camera
Re: If you could buy a 430 at MSRP ...............
Quote:
amjf088 said:
An F430 is one of the most spectacular cars around.
It will be interesting to see what the actual price and performance on the 997 TT is. The prices of a 996 TT S and F430 actually aren't THAT close (to people like me) - something like 136K to 175K base to base. In that light, I agree with the earlier post that suggested a GT2 is a more realistic comparison.
But how can you go wrong with any of these cars?
The difference seems to be bigger in the US. Porsche discounts their cars in the US, while Ferrari does not.
Forum
About Rennteam | Help | Terms of use | Privacy Policy | Support | Contact | Imprint | Archive
Powered by
Community
and
