Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ?? - Page1

Dec 7, 2005 8:16:44 AM

thierry: Co-Pilot; Loc: Luxemburg , Luxembourg; Posts: 190, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 1, 2005

997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

Dear old fellows

,

I'm currently on going to sold my 987 S , and I want to switch to the "queen 911 ".
But I have a dilemma : Must I choose the very recent Carrera S I have last month tested (with great pleasure), or choose perhaps a two years 996 turbo, which is also a good coice in the absolute.
Can perhaps some of you give me your feedbacks and your points of view.
Thanks in advance !!!

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Dec 7, 2005 8:33:40 AM

ALDO: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany, Black Forrest , Germany; Posts: 3072, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2003; Reply to: thierry

Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

I have owned a 996 tt and right now have a 997 4S with X51.

If I could choose between this two cars for the same price I would take the 997 4S with X51. It is definitely a better car. You compare 997 C2 with rwd with a 996 tt with awd, that is a difference. My old 996 tt was understeering sometime, the new car is neutral (no understeering no oversteering).

AM

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Dec 7, 2005 8:39:54 AM

Nick_Athens: Senior; Loc: Greece , Greece; Posts: 710, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2004; Reply to: ALDO

Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

It depends for what reason you want it and what kind of a driver you are. For me a 996 turbo X50 with an exchaust and an ECU program is MUCH better.

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Dec 7, 2005 9:22:25 AM

JJBlade: Co-Pilot; Loc: UK; Posts: 190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 11, 2005; Reply to: Nick_Athens

Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

I have a C2S with -20mm and I would never even consider a 996Turbo as that is nowhere near as sporty as mine. I dislike 4wd and hate the uncommunicative heavy feeling that feeds through its every pore.

My choice will always be with the lighter more lithe car.

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Dec 7, 2005 11:10:17 AM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: JJBlade

Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

I also have Boxster S and it will be replaced with 997S with X51,PCCB,Spotr Chassis etc. 996T is excellent car but, as JJBlade said lighter car has better handling and rwd is pure enjoyment. Go for 997S or wait for 997T!

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Dec 7, 2005 11:24:15 AM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: thierry

Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

Interesting question.
I faced a similar choice a few months ago. I just took delivery a 997S with X51, sports susp. and PCCB which price tag could have gotten me a very nice second hand Turbo S or even a GT2.
Besides the fact that it's a nice feeling to own a brand new car, these are two different machines in the way they drive.
The Turbo is ultra efficient, an A to B missile, you point and shoot.
Depends on what you want really, I want to "learn" how to master a 911, and enjoy it mostly on the track. given those two points, the Carrera is the best choice IMHO.
The Turbo is obviously much faster, and the 997 Turbo will be even faster, it doesn't mean it's the one that will give you the most pleasure though.
Figure out what you want from your car, then testdrive both in the same day and make up your mind. Good luck.

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Dec 7, 2005 1:05:05 PM

Avoe: Veteran; Loc: Vienna , Austria; Posts: 803, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 17, 2002; Reply to: Futch

Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

I would take a Turbo (than make it to "S") anytime over a 997S.
Only one point is speeking for thr 997 IMO. Its new!
I also dislike 4wd, and I would never buy a 997 with 4wd, but since the turbo is strong enought, you can also drift around if you can and like.

maybe not in the same angle like with a 2wd but you can do.

I alraedy said once that It would be perfect if porsche will someday offer a 4wd that you can turn off if you like. Or lets say like this, a 2WD as basic with 4wd feature. So you can use 4wd anytime you need, when its raining or even snowing. If not, than just enjoy the 2wd. This would be just perfect. Techinkal it is doable, very ease. Also since prosche are using the visco-clutch system.
So porsche wake up and come up with some real scoops on the sports car market.

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Dec 7, 2005 1:57:51 PM

86BBUB: Newbie; Loc: NY; Posts: 35, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 30, 2005; Reply to: thierry

Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

Turbo has always been Porches most over-rated car. Big on visual drama and one-upsmanship; short of the best driving experience that a 911/997 can provide. Only great turbos are from the 70's. Even if they eliminate all lag with the new compressor I can't understand the desire for a flat-footed 4wd Porsche.

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Dec 7, 2005 2:34:49 PM

edz: Rennteam Pro; Loc: South Orange County; Posts: 2022, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: JJBlade

Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

I agree with JJblade, the 997S is much more nimble of car than the 996TT. It's a better car, newer and better technology. The only advantage the Turbo has is the power at 100 m.p.h plus. The 997S in the hands of a good driver will do well against the 996TT any where except a top speed on the freeway. Not to mention the 997S is a better looking car, wider with a softer looking front end. Friendly look that says come one touch me and I will kick your a....

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Dec 7, 2005 3:57:27 PM

VS+: Junior; Loc: Long Island, NY; Posts: 59, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2002; Reply to: edz

Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

One thing to consider is that 996TT offers an exellent plathform for building a very nice sports car.

Is it heavy? Yes, but you can easily and inexpensively up the power to 510-520 hp, and still have a very reliable engine. Or you can go to 600 hp, if you feel lucky

Anyway, you will have a much better power/weight ratio compared to 997S.

Is AWD "less fun"? Maybe, but you get a lot of grip in return. Makes for a very safe, very confidence-inspiring car, both on the street and on the race track.

The weakest point of the stock 996TT as sold in the US is the suspension. It is amazing what a good suspension set-up does to this car! Steering feel becomes quite good, body roll and "bad" understeer disappear BUT superior traction stays.

Even on a relatively tight race course such as Lime Rock, a properly set up Turbo beats 997's, no problem. And go to Watkins Glen, they are not even close

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Dec 7, 2005 6:58:20 PM

edz: Rennteam Pro; Loc: South Orange County; Posts: 2022, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: VS+

Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

Of course VS+ Turbo is still the King no matter what. You have no idea how many people have asked me behind the light if my 997S is a Turbo. Many don't have a clue. I think that 997TT will be a car to buy and keep for life. I still see an old Turbo from time to time, in gr8 condition, right color and big wheels and tires and a huge smile on my face appears

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Dec 7, 2005 9:15:25 PM

Turbo 911: Co-Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 185, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 29, 2005; Reply to: thierry

Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

I would go for the Turbo because I prefer the looks and the wide-body and the rear spoiler. I'm not sure if the Turbo understeers due to 4WD - some say it handles like it's on rails but you get immense power. I also like the 18" turbo II alloys you get. Some Turbos are cheaper than the 997C2S and I think that's great value (due to new Turbo coming soon and recession in UK).

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Dec 7, 2005 9:27:46 PM

Turbo Al: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Rochester, New York , United States; Posts: 2531, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: thierry

Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

Quote:
thierry said:
Dear old fellows ,

I'm currently on going to sold my 987 S , and I want to switch to the "queen 911 ".
But I have a dilemma : Must I choose the very recent Carrera S I have last month tested (with great pleasure), or choose perhaps a two years 996 turbo, which is also a good coice in the absolute.
Can perhaps some of you give me your feedbacks and your points of view.
Thanks in advance !!!

Do what I did, don't "settle" for the "Queen of the 911" (the 997S-NA), go for the "King of the 911" (the Turbo).

Then do what I am doing also-get in line for the 997Turbo.

TUR-BO, TUR-BO, TUR-BO, TUR-BO.

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Dec 8, 2005 12:13:17 AM

bstew: Expert; Loc: NC, USA; Posts: 1797, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: VS+

Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

Wow I don't think you can go wrong either way. I chose an 06 997 over a new 996. My dealer had a brand new untitled 996 that they where trying to get off the lot. I went with the new model as I like that one better. Either way I would have been happy happy happy.

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Dec 8, 2005 9:22:25 AM

JJBlade: Co-Pilot; Loc: UK; Posts: 190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 11, 2005; Reply to: bstew

Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

Just seen the 997S (-20mm) is 1.56secs faster round the Evo magazine track than the 996 Turbo so yet another reason to stick with the more fun car

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Dec 8, 2005 10:02:02 AM

davew (cincy): Veteran; Loc: Cincinnati, OH , United States; Posts: 1164, Gallery; Registered on: May 10, 2004; Reply to: Futch

Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

Fanch,

Can you tell us more about the GT2 you mentioned? was it really comparably priced to the 997S? Was it in good condition? Did you drive it much, and can you give a comparison? You really caught my attention there.

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Dec 8, 2005 10:52:06 AM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: davew (cincy)

Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

Quote:
davew (cincy) said:
Fanch,

Can you tell us more about the GT2 you mentioned? was it really comparably priced to the 997S? Was it in good condition? Did you drive it much, and can you give a comparison? You really caught my attention there.

It was a couple of years ago, a mk1 GT2.
It evolves in another league altogether, even from the Turbo. I wouldn't go as far as saying that it is a dangerous car but certainly one that demands proper driving skills and respect.
You have to be focused at all time, listening to what the chassis tells you. Everything is tighter, the controls are sharper and the power is just ridiculous.
Price wise, my car is 130000 Euros and for that price, in Europe at least, you can find a fair amount of GT2 on the second hand market in very good conditions.
Given the choice today, withing that kind of car, I'd rather go for a GT3, the dynamics of the GT2 are on the scary side of things, especially when the turbo come on in a bend!
To extract the essence of a GT2 demands driving skills I do not have... yet!

I mean proper driving of course, driving it at speed limits in town or on the motorway, that, even my grandma could do, although the clutch pedal is a bit heavy.
Hope it helped.
I did not drive the car on the track unfortunately, but only on mountain country roads.
Oh and the brake pedal was much more sensitive than my PCCB mk2 (The GT2 had the mk1) but also very noisy, which is usually a characteristic of racing pads.

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Dec 8, 2005 11:05:25 AM

Nick_Athens: Senior; Loc: Greece , Greece; Posts: 710, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2004; Reply to: Futch

Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

I was ready to sell my 997S cabrio for a 996 GT2 mk1 but the seller wasnt ready to sell his car and i couldnt wait, so now i am thinking of buying the 997 turbo instead.
I like 996 Gt2 very much. it is much nicer than my 997s cabrio and from my point of view much more better car.

It is liking comparing a Ferrari F430 with a F50...

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Dec 8, 2005 11:25:28 AM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: Nick_Athens

Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

in my opinion go 997S all the way.. cant stay in the past forever..

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Dec 8, 2005 12:00:58 PM

JJBlade: Co-Pilot; Loc: UK; Posts: 190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 11, 2005; Reply to: dhayek

Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

I drove a GT2 and found it boring. The engine is not as sonorous as a n/a and it doesn't rev like a sports car should. The handling is ok but the suspension is so stiff it just tries to throw you off the road, if it is even vaguely bumpy. The straight line performance is ok but not that exciting to me as I ride bikes. All in all I was very non-plussed.

However I have also driven the GT3 MkII and RS and 'Oh my god' they are just awesome. So much fun with beautiful handling and a lovely engine that just screams through those last few revs. On track they are just beautifully composed and you can lap for ever revelling in the dynamics.

My choice if you want a more extreme 997 is get a GT3 anyday over a GT2

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Dec 8, 2005 12:52:36 PM

Nick_Athens: Senior; Loc: Greece , Greece; Posts: 710, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2004; Reply to: JJBlade

Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

ok thierry now i believe you are ready to decide...

as you can see anyone here has a different opinion and different needs of a car. Some people needs it for everyday use some other for track only some of them wants to feel confortable in their car, so i believe that you have to find out first of all what you want from your car. and then decide..

of course the 997s is a car that you can sell if you want in the future Much easier that a 996 turbo. it is much slower though (dont tell me about the track times again etc. ) if you want to drive your car on tracks you can pay 2000 euros and place a sport suspension to your 996 turbo and if you get bored of the car with few money you can do it EASILY 530hp. (WITHOUT PROBLEMS) - there is only an issue with the gearbox but on a few cars. -

The 997s is a new car with warranty new model but i am afraid that when you drive it you have a feeling of an everyday car. i cant describe what i feel. It is like you drive a simple very fast car. in order to understand what i mean my sister's new boxster S has a heavier clunch shorter gears and better sound in low rpms.
I didnt like my 997s from the first time i drove it. maybe it is because i sold a GT3 MK1 and i bought the 997S.

I also believe that Porsche are cars for FAST DRIVING and only. in trucks on the road everywhere. So Porsche has to be wild. if I wanted a car to impress myself with the appearance and others also i would definetely buy a Ferrari. for this reason i wait for my F430 which i can use for normal driving and i was ready to buy a GT2 or maybe i shall wait for 997 turbo with suspension and a power kit (i dont care about the warranty) to take the place of my fast car.
997s is neither a really fast car Nor a goodloking car (like a ferrari).

Now if you were asking me to choose one of the 997 TT 996 GT2 or a F430, UNFORTUNATELY to my beliefs i would choose Ferrari. (as i dont agree with porsche way of thinking anymore)

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Dec 8, 2005 1:38:42 PM

ALDO: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany, Black Forrest , Germany; Posts: 3072, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2003; Reply to: Avoe

Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

Quote:
Avoe said:
I would take a Turbo (than make it to "S") anytime over a 997S.
Only one point is speeking for thr 997 IMO. Its new!
I also dislike 4wd, and I would never buy a 997 with 4wd, but since the turbo is strong enought, you can also drift around if you can and like. maybe not in the same angle like with a 2wd but you can do.

Did you ever drove both cars? The 996 tt 4wd has a lot of understeering. Maybe drifting is fun but is also slow.

Quote:

I alraedy said once that It would be perfect if porsche will someday offer a 4wd that you can turn off if you like. Or lets say like this, a 2WD as basic with 4wd feature. So you can use 4wd anytime you need, when its raining or even snowing. If not, than just enjoy the 2wd. This would be just perfect. Techinkal it is doable, very ease. Also since prosche are using the visco-clutch system.
So porsche wake up and come up with some real scoops on the sports car market.

You describe exactly 997 4S, 95% of power goes to the rear axle, only in case it needs extra grip on the front axle you get a 4wd. The only difference is the extra weight of about 50 kg. Do you see a difference in a 997 C2 with and without a co-dirver? I mean a co-driver who is sitting without talking or giving any comments

AM

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Dec 9, 2005 4:30:56 AM

Silver Bullet: Veteran; Loc: Canada; Posts: 1126, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 24, 2004; Reply to: ALDO

Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

To me, this is a no brainer: 996 Turbo.

The 996 Turbo engine is bulltproof, ready to withstand many huge mods if desired, and a true Porsche race engine, not to mention no real worry of RMS. It's a beautiful car with huge power reserves, and for those who diss the handling, well, how else can you knock the 996 Turbo when comparing it to the 997S? The AWD system is strongly rear biased, so the car definitely retains a RWD character. Unless you are a real track aficionado, you'll welcome the extra safety that the AWD platform provides with that kind of power.

A 911 Turbo is always timeless.

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Dec 9, 2005 11:54:54 AM

Turbo Al: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Rochester, New York , United States; Posts: 2531, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: Silver Bullet

Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

Quote:
Silver Bullet said:
To me, this is a no brainer: 996 Turbo.

The 996 Turbo engine is bulltproof, ready to withstand many huge mods if desired, and a true Porsche race engine, not to mention no real worry of RMS. It's a beautiful car with huge power reserves, and for those who diss the handling, well, how else can you knock the 996 Turbo when comparing it to the 997S? The AWD system is strongly rear biased, so the car definitely retains a RWD character. Unless you are a real track aficionado, you'll welcome the extra safety that the AWD platform provides with that kind of power.

A 911 Turbo is always timeless.

Couldn't have said it better myself. . . .

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Dec 9, 2005 3:22:17 PM

edz: Rennteam Pro; Loc: South Orange County; Posts: 2022, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: Turbo Al

Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

In all honesty it's about your personal relationship with you car. No one can knock anyone for what they like and prefer to drive. I have friends who hated their 996TT and have some who don't care for the 997. And I have friends whi will not part with their Ferraris. Quality wise the 997 is a better built car than the 996, that is very obvious when you drive both cars. As for the bulletproof engine, who says the 997 engine is any less reliable than the 996. I have seen 3 996TT's that were in a shop getting a new engine with less than 5000 miles. I have seen over a dozen 996's in for engine overhaul with less than 60,000 miles. So what does bulletproof mean and why would the 996TT engine be any more reliable than the regular 996. Yes it has so many other goodies in comparison to the 996 but considering the stress on the engine due to higher H.P. it makes no sense for the TT be any more reliable than the regular 996's.

996TT is an awsome car but my engine failed at 29000 miles and it just killed me. I fell in love with the 996TT since day one I saw it but I never cared for the platic vents in the front of the car. Now seeing the 997S the more I look at the 996's they just look outdated and not as appealing any more. Ferrari makes serious machines and it's car that has league of it's own but they are not as appealing as they used to be. In the 80's no one would even comapre another car to a Ferrari but that has chanegd now. My favorite is the 575M superamerica and again gents, this is just my personal opinion and I don't mean any disrespect to anyone here. People have different tastes and opinions and we are only having friendly discussions on this forum.

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Dec 9, 2005 4:57:22 PM

Silver Bullet: Veteran; Loc: Canada; Posts: 1126, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 24, 2004; Reply to: edz

Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

Quote:
edz61 said:
why would the 996TT engine be any more reliable than the regular 996?

Because they are different engines.

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Dec 10, 2005 1:16:06 AM

J.Seven: Rennteam Master; Loc: Estoril , Portugal; Posts: 3201, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 16, 2002; Reply to: Silver Bullet

Re: 997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

Quote:
Silver Bullet said:
Quote:
edz61 said:
why would the 996TT engine be any more reliable than the regular 996?

Because they are different engines.

edz61, why do you think 997 Turbo and GT3 are getting different base engines than the regular 997 ?
This is the proof that regular 996/997 engines were not made to be forced induct, they're to weak for that.

J.Seven

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997 Carrera S or 996 Turbo ??

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