Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Heel /toe foot position - like this? - Page1

Dec 6, 2005 3:24:03 AM

MHakkinen: Pilot; Loc: SoCal-freeway shooting capital; Posts: 381, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 15, 2005

Heel /toe foot position - like this?

I'm sure this is the first time this has ever been discussed here

This is the method I use to apply the brake while blipping throttle to match revs...

Do you use the same position or another?

I've never been formally schooled at heel/toe downshifting. I'm pretty decent at it, but I have to admit that I'm not as consistent as I'd like to be. Sometimes not enough revs, sometimes too much. Usually happens during more casual situations, driving from 'stoplight to stoplight' (gotta practice right?). But during spirited driving opportunities, under aggressive braking I usually am able to match revs pretty consistently.

I want to improve; just wondering if I'm starting with the right 'foundation'

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Dec 6, 2005 4:49:29 AM

schmuy: Senior; Loc: Vancouver, BC , Canada; Posts: 671, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 5, 2005; Reply to: MHakkinen

Re: Heel /toe foot position - like this?

I believe this has been discussed before however if i can remember correctly it was a short discussion. In my knowledge your foot placement seems correct. there's a CGT test vid that best motoring? did on the cgt where they show the driver (obviously much expereinced) in the same position. If it still works i believe its HERE .

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Dec 6, 2005 10:47:30 AM

GT3FISH: Newbie; Loc: Lagos, Nigeria - Beirut, Lebanon; Posts: 29, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 13, 2005; Reply to: schmuy

Re: Heel /toe foot position - like this?

nice shoes

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Dec 6, 2005 11:15:57 AM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: GT3FISH

Re: Heel /toe foot position - like this?

It think thats how I do it in the 997, I never actually looked down at my feet on the pedals now that I think about it.

The problem with casual driving is that the braking force is not strong enough and for one, the brake pedal remains too high and far away from the throttle so its harder to reach, and second, since the brake pressure is less, the brake is more sensitive to any input and trying to reach the throttle and blip it without influencing the braking makes the maneuver more difficult. When you are baking hard, it all becomes much easier.

However, there is a big diffrence with sport chrono ON, since the throttle is more responsive, bliping it is very simple and makes heel-toe on casual driving very simple.

Even though I have adapted, I still find the pedal placement of the 997 much worse for heel-toe than in the 966, in the 996 there were bettre placed for this. Don't know why they screwed up the 997's pedals

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Dec 6, 2005 3:26:03 PM

Kevin034: Pilot; Loc: WA; Posts: 393, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 7, 2005; Reply to: GT3FISH

Re: Heel /toe foot position - like this?

Quote:
C4SSS said:
nice shoes

rofl, i agree.

The 997 gas pedal is a bit farther down than my M3, so I really can't heel-toe it. So yes, I do the same thing, I do the 1/2 on the brake and roll the other 1/2 onto the throttle.

I also find the sports button to be quite useful. In normal throttle mapping program, I find that I have to roll my foot much deeper and more of a pain to blip the throttle during dowshifts. Obviously, w/ the sports throttle mapping, I find that I'm able to roll my foot quicker and blip the throttle much better.

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Dec 6, 2005 3:37:42 PM

POR911: Pilot; Loc: VA; Posts: 324, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2005; Reply to: Kevin034

Re: Heel /toe foot position - like this?

I use the same method, though my foot still cant completely bend the correct way easliy, no matter how many time i do it.

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Dec 6, 2005 3:56:16 PM

MHakkinen: Pilot; Loc: SoCal-freeway shooting capital; Posts: 381, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 15, 2005; Reply to: Kevin034

Re: Heel /toe foot position - like this?

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
It think thats how I do it in the 997, I never actually looked down at my feet on the pedals now that I think about it.

The problem with casual driving is that the braking force is not strong enough and for one, the brake pedal remains too high and far away from the throttle so its harder to reach, and second, since the brake pressure is less, the brake is more sensitive to any input and trying to reach the throttle and blip it without influencing the braking makes the maneuver more difficult. When you are baking hard, it all becomes much easier.

However, there is a big diffrence with sport chrono ON, since the throttle is more responsive, bliping it is very simple and makes heel-toe on casual driving very simple.

Even though I have adapted, I still find the pedal placement of the 997 much worse for heel-toe than in the 966, in the 996 there were bettre placed for this. Don't know why they screwed up the 997's pedals

Carlos - You've described my feelings exactly

So at least the Sport Chrono helps in this regard. Now I wish I had it LOL!

Quote:
Kevin034 said:
Quote:
C4SSS said:
nice shoes

rofl, i agree.

The 997 gas pedal is a bit farther down than my M3, so I really can't heel-toe it. So yes, I do the same thing, I do the 1/2 on the brake and roll the other 1/2 onto the throttle.

I also find the sports button to be quite useful. In normal throttle mapping program, I find that I have to roll my foot much deeper and more of a pain to blip the throttle during dowshifts. Obviously, w/ the sports throttle mapping, I find that I'm able to roll my foot quicker and blip the throttle much better.

Sport Chrono again

Now you guys have got me thinking.....

I probably should have screwed the budget for the backyard and left it just dirt for another 6-8 months and used the freed up cash for a "S" w/ Sport Chrono. Hell at that point I would've just gone the whole nine yards and added X-51 and PCCB!!

Hindsight is always 20/20 isn't it

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Dec 6, 2005 4:00:55 PM

MHakkinen: Pilot; Loc: SoCal-freeway shooting capital; Posts: 381, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 15, 2005; Reply to: MHakkinen

Re: Heel /toe foot position - like this?

POR911,

Hey that's a pretty cool illustration!

My wife wants me to learn how to Tango. Have ya got one for that?

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Dec 6, 2005 4:18:06 PM

POR911: Pilot; Loc: VA; Posts: 324, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2005; Reply to: MHakkinen

Re: Heel /toe foot position - like this?

NO, but i have one for the Electric slide and Marcarena!!

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Dec 6, 2005 4:29:00 PM

Kevin034: Pilot; Loc: WA; Posts: 393, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 7, 2005; Reply to: MHakkinen

Re: Heel /toe foot position - like this?

Quote:
MHakkinen said:
Sport Chrono again Now you guys have got me thinking.....

I probably should have screwed the budget for the backyard and left it just dirt for another 6-8 months and used the freed up cash for a "S" w/ Sport Chrono. Hell at that point I would've just gone the whole nine yards and added X-51 and PCCB!!

Hindsight is always 20/20 isn't it

I don't have a backyard. lol

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Dec 6, 2005 6:06:41 PM

edz: Rennteam Pro; Loc: South Orange County; Posts: 2022, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: POR911

Re: Heel /toe foot position - like this?

Very nice demonstration

With your right foot being in angle that means where you give it a little gas, right? What's funny is when I do I should pay attention to it as I will screw up so I will just do it naturally without thnkng about it :0

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Dec 6, 2005 8:10:15 PM

john999s: Senior; Loc: Hessen, Germany , Germany; Posts: 630, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2005; Reply to: edz

Re: Heel /toe foot position - like this?

Reckon your photo is what I do. But I agree with Carlos. It was much easier in a 996 and Sport Chrono makes it easier in 997. I suppose wider shoes might help.....

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Dec 6, 2005 9:51:59 PM

hellfire99: Newbie; Loc: Seattle, WA, USA; Posts: 13, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 10, 2005; Reply to: john999s

Re: Heel /toe foot position - like this?

on the 997 i find myself stabbing the throttle with the base of my little toe. so it's more like toe-toe. i can't contort my ankle to hit the throttle with anything else.

i think it's pretty easy to blip even with light braking (i mean, it's pointless, but it gets pedestrians' attentions

).

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Dec 7, 2005 1:30:20 AM

MHakkinen: Pilot; Loc: SoCal-freeway shooting capital; Posts: 381, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 15, 2005; Reply to: hellfire99

Re: Heel /toe foot position - like this?

Ok, so it appears my feet are in the correct place, are there any other key elements to matching revs while downshifting?

Is it just a matter of practice or are there specific cues or actions that the pros follow to make this operation a seamless one everytime?

I hate it when the car "bucks" on me when I time it incorrectly.

Any racers or instructors out there??

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Dec 7, 2005 3:35:04 PM

john999s: Senior; Loc: Hessen, Germany , Germany; Posts: 630, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2005; Reply to: MHakkinen

Re: Heel /toe foot position - like this?

Practice practice practice-but without passengers!! Generally works better if you are driving harder because your pressure on the break pedal is higher and a bit of variation in the pressure when you blip doesn't make as much difference and the revs are higher anyway. Do it for long enough and it becomes second nature and you and your passengers don't even notice.

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Dec 8, 2005 3:39:38 AM

Jim48: Senior; Loc: Virginia, USA; Posts: 639, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 24, 2005; Reply to: MHakkinen

Re: Heel /toe foot position - like this?

Quote:
MHakkinen said:
I'm sure this is the first time this has ever been discussed here

This is the method I use to apply the brake while blipping throttle to match revs...

Do you use the same position or another?

I've never been formally schooled at heel/toe downshifting. I'm pretty decent at it, but I have to admit that I'm not as consistent as I'd like to be. Sometimes not enough revs, sometimes too much. Usually happens during more casual situations, driving from 'stoplight to stoplight' (gotta practice right?). But during spirited driving opportunities, under aggressive braking I usually am able to match revs pretty consistently.

I want to improve; just wondering if I'm starting with the right 'foundation'

I think you've got the placement correct. If you get a chance, check out Paul Frere's "Sports Car and Competition Driving" (Frere's the European Editor for Road and Track Magazine (he's 87 or 88 and still sharp as a tack), a former race car driver, and a brilliant engineer as well). I think he shows a picture with a similar foot placement for heal and toeing. Other posters are right in that unless you are breaking hard, it's difficult to get the right amount of pressure on the accelerator pedal. I guess the Sports Chrono helps this - lucky I ordered it on my 997S that's supposed to arrive by mid - January.

Jim

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Heel /toe foot position - like this?

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