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the fact is that for all the macho BS talked by those who love manual 'boxes, the average driver with a tiptronic will always beat the average driver with a manual, regardless of the hp loss through the torque converter.
Nonsense. I would not term a manual driver who fails to better an automatic in a race "average", I would call him inept and rather hopeless, or in need of some basic instruction.
A good stock vs. stock example is back when I bought my new 1993 Corvette 6-spd manual. I can't remember Don's last name (been awhile), but Don had a virtually identical '93 Corvette, but it was an automatic. Don worked for a Chevy dealership, and raced a new Corvette every year. He won the southeastern U.S. NHRA Sportsman points championship in 1993 driving his '93 Corvette. Needless to say, he knew what he was doing on the track. I was just a weekend warrior, that would race on points nights from time to time. Depending on weather, Don's dial-in index was always 13.65 - 13.75, somewhere in that range. He was deadly, practically nailing his index with every run, hence his winning the championship for the S.E.. My dial-in index with my 6-speed was 13.29-13.39, depending on weather, and my trap speeds were always, ALWAYS, about 4-5 mph faster than Don's automatic. He would cross the line 102-103 mph, I was always 105-108.
Just a single example, I know...But, I feel it's a very apples to apples example worthy of note. Every so often we'd get another current-year 'Vette out there racing with us, with a 6-speed, that couldn't manage to even break into the 13's. But we all got a good chuckle out of it, as it was always painfully obvious that the driver was a horrific driver. Not what I'd call "average", unless "average" means that you really really can't drive a stick shift fast to save your life.
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As it happens, as someone stated earlier, there is always a power loss between the engine and the road and if you have a lock-up on the torque converter you minimise that loss once the gear is engaged.
I believe that you do not understand where exactly the power is "lost" with a traditional fluid-powered torque-converter automatic. It's not all due to the rate of lock-up, it's the fact that it takes x-amount of horsepower JUST TO RUN the torque converter in full lockup. Even with the torque-converter fully engaged/locked, an automatic transmission is less efficient in getting power to the tail-shaft, than a manual. It's because of all the work involved in pumping and pressurizing all of that ATF through the converter and all the myriads of other journals. Although advancements in fluid dynamics have been made with certain trannies in this regard, it's always a factor nonetheless. Keep in mind that all the magazines achieve better times with manuals than with tiptronics, and the magazines do NOT speed shift, such that all cars are driven and tested in a manner that can be duplicated for all cars, to create real-world comparisons. Once I believe Car & Driver defined that "we drive the cars in such a manner that could reasonably be duplicated by any driver." If you think it takes somebody unusually gifted to drive a manual faster than an auto, then suffice it to say you must also fall in that "not terribly gifted" category...
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Fact is to achieve a 0-100km time of 4.8secs which Porsche claims for the 997 CS, you have to be (a) a pretty good driver and (b) prepared to fry your clutch.
Fry a clutch??? I've yet to hear of one, and the test cars the magazines get are subjected to dozens and dozens and dozens of mid-to-high rpm launches. Only if you're stupidly feathering the daylights out of the clutch at launch, will you start to burn her up. I raced my Corvette competitively usually one night per month, for 3 years or so, on a sticky NHRA track. With a few mods in '94, it was a low-13/high-12 second car. I sold it with 60,000 miles on the odo, ORIGINAL CLUTCH STILL IN SERVICE, which still gripped wonderfully. No need to burn a clutch to drive a stick fast.
Sorry about my long and rather ranting post, I'm frustrated when overtly bad and hapless stick-shift drivers are used as examples of "average" drivers when comparing the benefits of transmissions. Is the "average" driver really that clueless and uncoordinated and torturous of equipment???
I'm fine with anybody who just flat prefers the auto. No problem. I was just giving MMD a hard time, as he's been a manual guy thusfar, and "the dark side of the force" may be starting to sink it's claws into him!! LOL!!!!
Seriously this is a good question.
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