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    Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article

    To Nick Berry.

    1.If you read my post you should be able to understand the meaning of the statement that Walter Röhrl made.


    2.There were roughly 350 journalists that drove the Carrera GT,many from ordinary newspapers with no experience in driving high performance cars.

    They didn't need any credentials at all.

    BTW,How many do you think can extract the full potential of the 360 Modena or a 996 Turbo.

    Nick,I hope you can extract your 360 Spiders full potential otherwise I dont understand why you bought it.


    Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article

    Quote:
    As far as the 5% goes, here's my try at a graphical explanation:



    Nice graph Mike!

    Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article

    Quote:
    Steve do you believe for one minute that the journalist were not screened by Porsche before handing the keys to a $440,000 vehicle to them? Make no mistake, there were credentialed drivers.



    Really?

    Here's a re-post about "credentialed drivers":

    "Many years ago, I attended the International Motor Press Association's "Test Day" at Hockenheim in conjunction with the IAA. The event reminded me of a 3-ring circus! There were "journalists" of every stripe imaginable, all competing to get a drive in the "hot" cars before they were degraded by general abuse.

    The driving-skill pool was quite varied. The auto-motor-und-sport guys were quite talented and very professional. The USA contingent of Auto Week, Automobile, Car and Driver, Motor Trend, and Road & Track all had high skill drivers, many of whom had competition licenses and drove very well.

    Then there were the offbeat or small-circulation publications from the homeland that needed an excuse for a day away from the office. These people covered "transportation issues" for style magazines or road accidents for the "dorf gazette". They were quite scary to observe while circulating amidst the hot shoes.

    All the major German manufacturers had samples of their cars to drive, with the notable exception of Porsche. When I asked about this, I learned that Porsche used to attend, but there had been more than one bad accident and some vehicles had been destroyed at the previous Test Day. Porsche had decided that the environment of the IMPA event wasn't helping them sell cars proportional to the costs and risks involved. They wouldn't be back.

    Out on the track, the event reminded me of an American Showroom Stock race -- but without helmets or Nomex! Everyone was dressed in "business casual" and simply found an unoccupied vehicle, got in, and drove off. The speed differentials were a bit nuts. I recall one lap where I was passed by an M6, a Mercedes 190 E 2.3-16, and some other blur, all while I was passing a VW Camper and a Gelandewagen was doing some very fast off-road testing in the grass beside the track.

    At one point, I must have insulted the pride of an Opel Kadett hatch-back (with a bullet-train nose) while I was behind the wheel of a Golf GTi. He put his nose inside my rear quarter at the entrance to a high-speed sweeper around the back side of the track. I worried that if I shut the door on him to take the line, he might not know what was coming and there might be a big crash, since he wouldn't back off one inch. I decided to stay off the line and just tough out the corner and see what happened. Of course, I ran out of road at the exit by about 1 meter and dropped just the outside wheels off the track, into some gravel. I did manage to keep it straight at about 150 KPH, and caught myself accelerating to regain the lead over the provocateur.

    At that point, I decided that I was stupid and pulled into the pits for the last time that day. Like I said, it was just like a Showroom Stock race without helmets. Automotive journalism at its best. Imagine that environment with the Carrera GT "


    Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article

    350 journalist test drove the CGT?
    Where did you get that figure? How many did they have on hand for journalist to drive. Three were taken out within a very short time.

    I find it implausible because Porsche REFUSED to allow people who had already bought the car to drive it!!!!!!

    Mike, what happened years ago has little relevance today. Your characterization of a free for all among journalist to jump into a $450,000 Porsche (I am extrapolating from your comments about what happened years ago) and drive away is as far from reality as you can get.

    I have nothing against the CGT. If I had money to burn, I would certainly have seriously considered buying one. I bought the 360 Spider for severals reasons other than performance. I love the exclusivity and the sensory aspects to driving it. I will be picking up a TT Cab. in two weeks and it should be one of the first in the San Diego area. Just the way I like it.

    Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article

    " I will be picking up a TT Cab. in two weeks and it should be one of the first in the San Diego area."

    i saw one with hoehn temp plates early last week (in silver).

    Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article

    They had 6 cars of which two cars were destroyed at the end of those three weeks.
    Approx.350-360 journalists had the chance to drive the car.
    You are right about the fact that none of the persons who have ordered the car were given the chance to drive the car themselves,only as co-pilots.
    This info is not a secret,neither is the fact that there were 350-360 journalists in Gros Dölln.Official Porsche Info.



    Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article

    Quote:
    Mike, what happened years ago has little relevance today. Your characterization of a free for all among journalist to jump into a $450,000 Porsche (I am extrapolating from your comments about what happened years ago) and drive away is as far from reality as you can get.



    My experience IS relevant to your comment about the credentials of the motoring press. Out of 350 "journalists", I can only imagine that fewer than 100 were competent track drivers. My comment stands as to the other 250

    Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article

    Quote:
    I find it implausible because Porsche REFUSED to allow people who had already bought the car to drive it!!!!!!



    I can actually sympathize with Porsche on this one. At the time of the first Leipzig ride around event, there were only two CGTs free to use. Out of 350 "journalists" who drove later, two managed to put cars out of commission. Out of more than 1000 "owners" (not really -- haven't paid up more than the deposit yet -- more like prospects), how many cars might they lose? Maybe none, maybe one, maybe both?

    Would you like to have been Porsche's insurance company? How about their press relations department with the important CGT intro event scheduled for a few weeks hence?

    Maybe you know that owners are not required to have any "credentials" beyond a bank account that won't bounce a $50,000 check.

    One of my friends was at the Leipzig event. He is a competition driver that spends plenty of seat time in damn fast race cars. He's also a paid-his-deposit CGT customer. Porsche wouldn't let him drive the car, because if they did, they would have to explain to everyone else why they could not. He did get a great ride from his old acquaintance, Roland Kussmaul, instead.

    Another of the "paid-his-deposit" prospects had just preceded my friend in the ride around. It seems that when this gentleman returned from his ride, he was sweating profusely and was so overwhelmed that he had to be helped from the car. The experience was so intense for this unfortunate gentleman that he was still suffering after-effects when my friend returned from an extended ride with Roland. My friend waxed enthusiastic about the CGT's capabilities, was very enthused in every way about the car and not a bit bothered by the g forces or speed. But, he was alarmed by the great variation in the attendees' reactions to the car at this event. He wondered aloud whether the gentleman mentioned above was really cut out to purchase the Carrera GT.

    I don't wonder at all why Porsche would not want EVERY attendee to drive around the Leipzig test track, at speed, in not-the-prospect's car. I might have gone to Leipzig in August if Porsche had offered a drive in the CGT, but I stayed home. However, I'm NOT pissed because of Porsche's decision and don't think they are hiding anything from me. Unless it's the "credentials" (the lack of) of other customers

    To assume that Porsche can afford to offend any "card carrying" automotive journalist at the only hands-on-the-wheel press introduction that the Carrera GT will ever have, reveals some serious naiveté about the car business. The CGT is not a race car. It has license plates and needs to sell over a thousand units. Uniformly positive, wide ranging press coverage is essential. That's why there was no initiation ceremony or secret handshake required for the press. It's no mystery at all.

    Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article

    If I had the money I'd probably shell out for one, even if I couldn't reach its full potential, thats irrelevant--the important thing is that its a beautiful fast car that would be loads of fun to drive. Of course you're driving skill will improve with time aswell

    Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article

    Mike my understanding is they have 1250 confirmed buyers and all they needed was another 250. For Porsche to bring in 350 driving journalist to sell 250 cars seems a bit extreme to me.

    Porsche had no problem with requiring participants in their driving school (Porsche Experience) to pay insurance while they drove 996's around Road Atlanta. The instructors set the pace and often rode with the individuals.

    They could have done the same with the few buyers who opted to travel to Germany on their own nickel to ride in a car they bought.

    I agree the car is not for the faint of heart. It is really is for the driving professional or a driver with incredible talent who with time and resources could have been a driving professional. No many of those around.




    Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article

    I give up Nick.
    You have already made up your mind.

    Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article

    nberry: Given how long people have known the CGT was coming I'm sure Porsche is concerned if they have several hundred allocations left unsold. If Porsche is struggling to sell all their CGTs and Enzo's are going for several hundred K$ premium that's a severe image problem for Porsche and one I imagine they're very determined to address. The press are there to spread the word about how great the car is. Just like Porsche uses the press to pump up the image of the Turbo Cab as the undiscountable car (as written in the new R&T) when in reality many have already reported getting deals below MSRP.

    Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article

    Quote:
    I agree the car is not for the faint of heart. It is really is for the driving professional or a driver with incredible talent who with time and resources could have been a driving professional. No many of those around.



    OK, Nick.

    I guess I'm not faint of heart.

    And since I'm quite sure I will enjoy driving the car, leaving less than 25% of its capabilities unused, I humbly accept your estimation of my skill level. I'm flattered that word of my driving talents has traveled all the way to San Diego.

    Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article

    Quote:
    Mike my understanding is they have 1250 confirmed buyers and all they needed was another 250. For Porsche to bring in 350 driving journalist to sell 250 cars seems a bit extreme to me.







    The C-GT is a "halo" car . The 350 journalists are invited there more as agents to sell Boxsters and Cayennes to their readers . Marketing 101.

     
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