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Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article
Quote:
Well, I guess compared to the CGT, the Ford GT is a bargain.
that's what clarkson wrote. he's not too angry that the CGT is out of reach because he can get his hand on the affordable ford GT. a weird comparison IMO.
anyway -- i like the ford as well and i've heard that only very few ford GT's will make it to europe. 100 units or so. anyone can confirm? i wonder what the local ford dealer would say if i walk into the showroom trying to order this car...
Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article
Now what exactly is this supposed to mean:
"Talking about how fast a car accelerates from 0-124 mph seemed a bit anal. But then this was Germany."
Hey, if you don't like the way we are, get the heck out of the country and don't just come here to savour on our cars!
Greets,
Getaway
P.S.: I know what anal means in US english, is there a different meaning in UK english?
"Talking about how fast a car accelerates from 0-124 mph seemed a bit anal. But then this was Germany."
Hey, if you don't like the way we are, get the heck out of the country and don't just come here to savour on our cars!
Greets,
Getaway
P.S.: I know what anal means in US english, is there a different meaning in UK english?
Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article
Jeremy Clarkson is as much a comedian as he is a car reporter. (Notice the slightly humourous way the article is written). The review of the car is to be taken seriously, but; his jokes aren't really.
Don't worry, its not meant to be offensive
Perhaps someone else from England (Or other countries where he is known--if any) could explain better than I could.
Don't worry, its not meant to be offensive
Perhaps someone else from England (Or other countries where he is known--if any) could explain better than I could.
Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article
Quote:
Perhaps someone else from England (Or other countries where he is known--if any) could explain better than I could.
Anal in English simply means an obsessive attention to detail. Which explains the extraordinarily good cars that come from Germany
Alles gute,
Rob
Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article
I found the article troubling. No one is allowed to drive the car other than an abandoned airfield? Roads with twists and turns are verbotin? W.Roehl never actually drove it on the ring?
No doubt this car is a fabulous performance car but clearly requires driving abilities that 99.9 of the human race does not have. I knew there was a problem when Roehl went on record as stating the car was dangerous and something needed to be done.
Well at least you can sit in your garage and listen to the engine as you rev it.
No doubt this car is a fabulous performance car but clearly requires driving abilities that 99.9 of the human race does not have. I knew there was a problem when Roehl went on record as stating the car was dangerous and something needed to be done.
Well at least you can sit in your garage and listen to the engine as you rev it.
Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article
Quote:
W.Roehl never actually drove it on the ring?
No, we know that's not true.
Walter drove it on the ring, as one can see from the auto-motor-und-sport video. He did 7:37 without breaking a sweat -- with a passenger!
My take is that he guessed he would be 5 seconds faster if he really had been trying -- that's where the 7:32 time came from.
Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article
Quote:
No doubt this car is a fabulous performance car but clearly requires driving abilities that 99.9 of the human race does not have.
Easy there, big boy. Clearly to whom?
The CGT has 5 pounds for every horse power. My IROC 911 RS has 7 pounds per horse power. The CGT has a better power-to-weight ratio, but it's not way out, bunches, wildly better. It's less of a difference than a TT compared to a C2 (415/315).
I can drive the RS quite easily, and I'm not the world's best driver. The CGT is bound to be 7/5 more fun with the motor, but I can't imagine that it handles worse than a 30 year old 911. In fact, I have every confidence that I will find the CGT easier to drive more quickly that the IROC car.
The 20 October 2003 issue of AutoWeek has an article about the CGT which indicates that the car has extraordinary throttle-steering control. It is said to be as stable at 170 MPH as ordinary cars are at 60. The reviewer also complains that he didn't get to wring out the car's handling dynamics, much as Clarkson did. That is the result of 2 out of 7 press cars being damaged beyond easy repair by a previous flight of "testers". One blown engine at 14,500 RPM and one lamp post at 150 KPH in the rain.
It's not a conspiracy by Porsche to hide faults. It's simple self preservation against moron press drivers. Clarkson was extremely irritated while the AutoWeek correspondent was merely disappointed.
Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article
Getaway,
While I assume that in Germany the 0-200kph measurement is an important figure, the importance of it becomes skewed when translated into mph. I'm not sure Clarkson realized this, so I bet 0-124mph seemed like a very arbitrary figure.
I don't understand why he didn't enjoy learning the technical side of the car, for that is what makes the CGT special. Perhaps all he could think about was driving the car.
Mike,
If you don't mind me asking, will you be driving the car frequently?
While I assume that in Germany the 0-200kph measurement is an important figure, the importance of it becomes skewed when translated into mph. I'm not sure Clarkson realized this, so I bet 0-124mph seemed like a very arbitrary figure.
I don't understand why he didn't enjoy learning the technical side of the car, for that is what makes the CGT special. Perhaps all he could think about was driving the car.
Mike,
If you don't mind me asking, will you be driving the car frequently?
Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article
Quote:
Mike,
If you don't mind me asking, will you be driving the car frequently?
I'll be driving it some, but not every day. Probably a few thousand miles per year. It's not a car that I'd feel comfortable driving to the grocery store (how does carbon fiber do with shopping carts?), but it won't be a garage queen, either. I'd love to do some DE at Mid-Ohio, Putnam Park, etc., as well.
Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article
Quote:
where did you get the 7:37 röhrl vid from?
is it possible to download it?
cheers
wolfgang
Check out this thread.
And also this one.
Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article
Walter Roehl the god of Porsche cars and helped design the CGT was quoted in an Australian article that the car scared him and needed to be tone down or given stability safeguards.
Now I cannot speak to your IROC 911 but if you believe that car is as powerful if not more so than the CGT why are you paying close to $500,000 for the CGT? I know the radar business is good (and you have the best) is it that good?
Now I cannot speak to your IROC 911 but if you believe that car is as powerful if not more so than the CGT why are you paying close to $500,000 for the CGT? I know the radar business is good (and you have the best) is it that good?
Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article
Nick - Walter said the CGT was scary after a high speed lap of the Nurburgring in the pouring rain. That's how they decided to add a traction control system (now it outlaps the Enzo by 12 sec/lap in the wet). I think Mike's right about the CGT being easy to drive for that level of vehicle, especially with the PSM switched on.
Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article
Quote:
Now I cannot speak to your IROC 911 but if you believe that car is as powerful if not more so than the CGT why are you paying close to $500,000 for the CGT? I know the radar business is good (and you have the best) is it that good?
I hope I'm not paying close to $500K for a CGT. My deposit contract sure doesn't read that way. Even if it did, so what? I thought this board was about cars, not business conditions. Go ask the guys on the Ferrari board how they can afford to buy an Enzo.
Where did I claim that my IROC 911 was more powerfull than a Carrera GT???
Higher pounds-per-horsepower (IROC=7, CGT=5) means SLOWER. No?? I think I made a comparison that went like: IROC-is-to-C2 as CGT-is-to-TT. A C2 is not more powerful than a TT, or did I mess up?
I was simply saying that I expect the CGT to be a worthwhile step up from the IROC in power-to-weight (excitement), but would not require super-human abilities to control. Just like the step up from a 964 C2 to 996 Turbo is not so different as to require a different set of human responses.
I was simply using a real data point from real experience to illustrate a point of view. I thought a real-world observation that was not based on taking Porsche employee statements on faith would have value. I was trying to establish some bonafides instead of making an unsupported assertion. I'm sorry it offended anyone.
One more thing. Just because Walter expressed some doubt about a particular setup during development doesn't mean it will be delivered to customers in the same (unfinished) form.
I was at Watkins Glen during some testing before a race with my old 962 (#5 Coca-Cola Bob Akin team). Al Holbet was there testing a brand-new 962 that he had built up from his own tub. He came back in from a test session, hopped out of the car and made some dignified, but urgent, comments to his crew and then sauntered over near where we were parked. I asked him what all the excitement had been about. He replied, "New cars are always exciting". The look on his crew's faces and the gravity with which they went about their tasks told us that something grave had nearly happened out on the track and needed fixing.
Does that mean the Holbert 962s were undrivable? Undesireable? Not worth the money?
Thanks for your kind words about my products.
Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article
Have you read the article on the CGT in CAR magazine? Walter Roehrl is quoted that only 5% of the buyers will be able to drive the car as it should/could be driven. So my estimate of 99.9 people on the planet not being able to drive it should be pretty close to being accurate. 
CAR also states it is fabulous supercar but not particularly conducive to highway and public road driving. Basically you feel every bump, scrap every dip and drive with a very uncooperative/uncomfortable clutch.
I still believe it is probably one of the best production track cars ever built. I would take it over the ENZO. I also believe it is not a car for everyday driving or driver. The magazine article seems to confirm that.
I apologize if you took offensive regarding my comments regarding your business. It was meant to be complimentary but humorous.
CAR also states it is fabulous supercar but not particularly conducive to highway and public road driving. Basically you feel every bump, scrap every dip and drive with a very uncooperative/uncomfortable clutch.
I still believe it is probably one of the best production track cars ever built. I would take it over the ENZO. I also believe it is not a car for everyday driving or driver. The magazine article seems to confirm that.
I apologize if you took offensive regarding my comments regarding your business. It was meant to be complimentary but humorous.
Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article
Quote:
Walter Roehrl is quoted that only 5% of the buyers will be able to drive the car as it should/could be driven
Well, forget about the CGT and take a 996 C2 or even a Boxster S: how many buyers are capable of driving these cars at their limits? 5%?
The CGT should be a great product and compared to the Mercedes SLR, it is really worth it's money. I don't know much about the ENZO (well, I know it is beautiful
) but the CGT definetely is a driver's machine, a beast, something too precious and too fast to be kept hidden in a collector's garage.
Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article
'It's a pity that only about 5 percent of the customers will be able to make full use of the car's potential,'says Röhrl.'It's that good,that complete,that fast.'
That means that those 5 percent will be able to drive the Carrera GT to its full 100% potential,and the rest up to 95 percent of its potential.
That means that the car is very easy to drive fast.
Michael Hölscher explained it to me like this:
The average person/driver of a GT2 could fairly easy extract up to 60-65% of the car's potential.
The average person/driver of the Carrera GT could fairly easy extract up to 80-85% of the car's potential.
I believe that only 0,5 percent of all the people who buy a GT2 can extract the car's full potential,not to mention the Enzo where the qoute would probably be 0,5 percent as well.
That means that those 5 percent will be able to drive the Carrera GT to its full 100% potential,and the rest up to 95 percent of its potential.
That means that the car is very easy to drive fast.
Michael Hölscher explained it to me like this:
The average person/driver of a GT2 could fairly easy extract up to 60-65% of the car's potential.
The average person/driver of the Carrera GT could fairly easy extract up to 80-85% of the car's potential.
I believe that only 0,5 percent of all the people who buy a GT2 can extract the car's full potential,not to mention the Enzo where the qoute would probably be 0,5 percent as well.
Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article
The few journalist that were given the opportunity to drive the GCT in conditions other than under carefully monitored conditions apparently had problems with the vehicle. One run into a pole, the other smashed the gears and another blown an engine.
These were automobile writer's with credential's in which Porsche entrusted the vehicle. Yet there were serious mishap's.
Do not loose sight of the fact this car was initially designed to be raced in Le Mans in 2000. When Wendeking nixed the idea they decided to capitalized on the development and sell it to the public in order to recoup their cost. Thus it was not designed for the everyday driver. It is more geared to the professional which unfortunately many on these chat sites believe they are.
RC you make a good point regarding few can driver a 996 to its ability. However there is a substantial difference between failing to drive a $70,000 car to its potential and one that cost close to $500,000 (includes taxes and license).
These were automobile writer's with credential's in which Porsche entrusted the vehicle. Yet there were serious mishap's.
Do not loose sight of the fact this car was initially designed to be raced in Le Mans in 2000. When Wendeking nixed the idea they decided to capitalized on the development and sell it to the public in order to recoup their cost. Thus it was not designed for the everyday driver. It is more geared to the professional which unfortunately many on these chat sites believe they are.
RC you make a good point regarding few can driver a 996 to its ability. However there is a substantial difference between failing to drive a $70,000 car to its potential and one that cost close to $500,000 (includes taxes and license).
Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article
There were two mishaps during the three weeks of the press event.
1. A German journalist changed from 5th gear to 2nd gear at a speed of 200km/h.
2.A French journalist drove with a speed of 100km/h in a curve were the speed should have been 60km/h and it was raining that day as well,in fact that was the only day it was raining during those three weeks.
BTW.I am not one of those in the 5% brackett which could extract the full potential of the Carrera GT.
The handling characteristics of the Carrera GT is very similar to the Boxster.
Only time will tell if the car is a success.
1. A German journalist changed from 5th gear to 2nd gear at a speed of 200km/h.
2.A French journalist drove with a speed of 100km/h in a curve were the speed should have been 60km/h and it was raining that day as well,in fact that was the only day it was raining during those three weeks.
BTW.I am not one of those in the 5% brackett which could extract the full potential of the Carrera GT.
The handling characteristics of the Carrera GT is very similar to the Boxster.
Only time will tell if the car is a success.
Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article
Quote:
Have you read the article on the CGT in CAR magazine? Walter Roehrl is quoted that only 5% of the buyers will be able to drive the car as it should/could be driven. So my estimate of 99.9 people on the planet not being able to drive it should be pretty close to being accurate.
CAR also states it is fabulous supercar but not particularly conducive to highway and public road driving. Basically you feel every bump, scrap every dip and drive with a very uncooperative/uncomfortable clutch.
The clutch on my IROC RS seems to match the descriptions I've read of the CGT clutch. I repeat that I can drive it quite easily.
As far as the 5% goes, here's my try at a graphical explanation:
Oct 18, 2003 5:32:47 PM
- Steve in FL
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- Loc: FL Space Coast
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Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article
Quote:
The few journalist that were given the opportunity to drive the GCT in conditions other than under carefully monitored conditions apparently had problems with the vehicle. One run into a pole, the other smashed the gears and another blown an engine.
These were automobile writer's with credential's in which Porsche entrusted the vehicle. Yet there were serious mishap's.
nberry,
You're assuming that every automobile writer with magazine credentials also has a decent level of driving skill? And that each of the journalists that pranged a CGT were from magazines that have dedicated automotive writers? Why? I'm not saying that the people that pranged the CGTs they were testing were bad drivers but you have no way of knowing that. And weren't the restrictions on journalist drives imposed after the three incidents? Even writers that do regularly cover automobiles aren't paragons of driving skill or common sense. One of my peeves with Excellence magazine is a writer that thinks the Xenon headlights aren't a good option making me think he's never driven a Porsche equipped with them at night.
As for the potential of the CGT and your or my ability to reach 100% of it, that has nothing to do with how much the car costs. For people that worry about how much the car costs are they really going to want to reach 100% of the car's capability? Somehow I think not. Nor does the potential of the car affect it's use as an everyday driver. The 996 Turbo for example is a damned capable car but works great as a daily driver. Some people may prefer a car like the GT3 which coddles the driver less than a 996 Turbo but that impacts more the driving experience rather than the potential of the car when you look at the raw performance numbers.
Oct 18, 2003 8:48:54 PM
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nberry
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Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article
Steve do you believe for one minute that the journalist were not screened by Porsche before handing the keys to a $440,000 vehicle to them? Make no mistake, there were credentialed drivers.
My point about the cost of the car deals more with buying something you cannot use. Many are buying the car for performance and when the designer of the car indicates that only 5% of the buyers can use it to its potential, one must ask why buy it for that kind of money? The potential is what you are paying for!!!!
My point about the cost of the car deals more with buying something you cannot use. Many are buying the car for performance and when the designer of the car indicates that only 5% of the buyers can use it to its potential, one must ask why buy it for that kind of money? The potential is what you are paying for!!!!
Oct 18, 2003 9:40:27 PM
- Steve in FL
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- Loc: FL Space Coast
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Re: Top Gear.Carrera GT Article
Quote:
Steve do you believe for one minute that the journalist were not screened by Porsche before handing the keys to a $440,000 vehicle to them? Make no mistake, there were credentialed drivers.
There a world of difference between a credentialed journalist with a driver's license and a credentialed journalist with actual track experience. My guess is a lot of the press scoping out the CGT fell into the former category. Impossible to say for sure without seeing a bio for all journalists invited but I can't see Porsche denying a magazine, say Forbes, credentials for the event if their assigned writer had never turned a wheel in competition.
Quote:
My point about the cost of the car deals more with buying something you cannot use. Many are buying the car for performance and when the designer of the car indicates that only 5% of the buyers can use it to its potential, one must ask why buy it for that kind of money? The potential is what you are paying for!!!!
Funny, I thought you were from the camp that it was the exclusivity you were buying.
If it was the car's potential that was the #1 criteria for CGT buyers why has there been so much public bitching about the production count going up to 1500 rather than the earlier estimate of 1000? Seems like some measure of exclusivity, and limited production which would hopefully keep the used prices of the CGT from dropping like other Porsche models, is a big consideration to some people. Then again, I'm not in a position to spend $440K+ on a car so I'm not sure I completely grok the psychology of such a purchase. I think it is safe to say though that there are a large number of CGT buyers that will never take the car to a race track which is the only sane place, at least in the US, one would explore the absolute potential of the car.
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