CloseQuote:
RC said:
In Hockenheim, the Corsas should give the F430 a 2 seconds advantage.
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Rossi said:Quote:
RC said:
In Hockenheim, the Corsas should give the F430 a 2 seconds advantage.
Last time you've discussed that issue, you were talking about 1 second, 1.5 seconds at the most.
Seems as if your predicted gap between a Corsa- and a non-Corsa-equipped car gets bigger and bigger with each post...
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arakis said:
1:12.7 --- 128.748 km/h – Ferrari F430, 490 PS/1493 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:14.3 --- Porsche 997 Carrera S, 355 PS/1461 kg (sport auto 05/05)
Now explain to me how is the car that is 1.6s slower actualy faster, youve exidental;y forgot that the porsche was tested in May and ferrari in november (by the way, its around 5 degrees celsius in Europe now). Even if it had the pireli zero corsas thats even better, becouse the more racing the tire is the more it will reackt to the temperatures. In other words ferrari wiped the flor with it, anyway you look at it.
as for 997 turbo vs 430, how exacly are they in the same class (because they are the same cost), thats a 3.8l turbo, and this is 4.3 liter atmosphere, to compare them ferrari would atleast need a 5.5 liter engine.
Nov 22, 2005 4:32:32 PM
Quote:
Crash said:Quote:
arakis said:
1:12.7 --- 128.748 km/h – Ferrari F430, 490 PS/1493 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:14.3 --- Porsche 997 Carrera S, 355 PS/1461 kg (sport auto 05/05)
Now explain to me how is the car that is 1.6s slower actualy faster, youve exidental;y forgot that the porsche was tested in May and ferrari in november (by the way, its around 5 degrees celsius in Europe now). Even if it had the pireli zero corsas thats even better, becouse the more racing the tire is the more it will reackt to the temperatures. In other words ferrari wiped the flor with it, anyway you look at it.
as for 997 turbo vs 430, how exacly are they in the same class (because they are the same cost), thats a 3.8l turbo, and this is 4.3 liter atmosphere, to compare them ferrari would atleast need a 5.5 liter engine.
You, Sir, have no idea what you're talking about with regard to the engines. On the tyre front let me tell you that the Pirellis are very sticky from the get go and with some warmup get devilishly grippy. Let me also remind you, that temperatures of 20 *C have been noted in Europe during the first half of november and some very cold temperatures were noted during MAY.
Nov 22, 2005 6:45:00 PM
... FYI the air temperature the day in May the 997S was tested was only 12*C, so much for that argument...
Quote:
Rossi said:
Last time you've discussed that issue, you were talking about 1 second, 1.5 seconds at the most.
Seems as if your predicted gap between a Corsa- and a non-Corsa-equipped car gets bigger and bigger with each post...
) who claimed in the past that they aren't interested in numbers but in beauty and especially exclusivity. Evidently, numbers are important too.
Nov 22, 2005 10:47:35 PM
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Carlos from Spain said:
Sorry to rain on your parade but for the last 10 years, the competitor of the mid-engined V8 Ferrari is the 911 Turbo, by price, by HP, and by setup. In the case of the F360 it was the 996TT, in the case of the F430 its the 997TT.
The GT3/RS versions are a completely different concept more in line with the Challenge Stradale versions, though really its the GT2 the equivalent of the Stradale but since its performance is so above the Statrale's, its rarely reffered to in the same sentence, so the GT3 is used instead for comparison even with its huge HP handicap because it makes it up with its chasis.
As to the temperature of the tires, maybe it was snowing too when the F430 was tested
Quote:
arakis said:Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Sorry to rain on your parade but for the last 10 years, the competitor of the mid-engined V8 Ferrari is the 911 Turbo, by price, by HP, and by setup. In the case of the F360 it was the 996TT, in the case of the F430 its the 997TT.
The GT3/RS versions are a completely different concept more in line with the Challenge Stradale versions, though really its the GT2 the equivalent of the Stradale but since its performance is so above the Statrale's, its rarely reffered to in the same sentence, so the GT3 is used instead for comparison even with its huge HP handicap because it makes it up with its chasis.
As to the temperature of the tires, maybe it was snowing too when the F430 was tested
I would have considerd since your status in rennteam that u are very knowligable about cars but your above statment kind of cancels that out.
What the general public or the popular magazines may or may not think is irelevant. You or anyone alse cant actualy think that 2 cars with the same engine capacity, one is turbo anf the other athmospheric, are not the same class, that is just plain unrealistic. The Turbo will always be faster, in F1 turbos with 1.5 liters were even alot faster then 3l athmospherics, thats 2 times biger engines couldnt cope with the turbos.
PORSCHE 996 TURBO IS NOT IN THE SAME CLASS AS THE 360 MODENA, AND IT WILL NEVER BE. AS FOR THE GT2 THAT IS RIDICULUS.
THE 360 CS AND THE GT3 RS ARE IN THE SAME CLASS.
SAME ENGINE SIZE SAME ENGINE CLASIFICATION, SAME BIFED UP RACING CHASSIS AND SAME TIRES( NOT SURE ABOUT THE TIRES).
ERGO SAME CLASS.
THE ASPHALT TEMP WAS 16 degries, quit using demagogy, and rethoric.
U want to compar performancwe for money go by a Skoda, Price tags are irelevant Ferrari is allways more expensive.
Quote:
Rossi said:Quote:
arakis said:Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Sorry to rain on your parade but for the last 10 years, the competitor of the mid-engined V8 Ferrari is the 911 Turbo, by price, by HP, and by setup. In the case of the F360 it was the 996TT, in the case of the F430 its the 997TT.
The GT3/RS versions are a completely different concept more in line with the Challenge Stradale versions, though really its the GT2 the equivalent of the Stradale but since its performance is so above the Statrale's, its rarely reffered to in the same sentence, so the GT3 is used instead for comparison even with its huge HP handicap because it makes it up with its chasis.
As to the temperature of the tires, maybe it was snowing too when the F430 was tested
I would have considerd since your status in rennteam that u are very knowligable about cars but your above statment kind of cancels that out.
What the general public or the popular magazines may or may not think is irelevant. You or anyone alse cant actualy think that 2 cars with the same engine capacity, one is turbo anf the other athmospheric, are not the same class, that is just plain unrealistic. The Turbo will always be faster, in F1 turbos with 1.5 liters were even alot faster then 3l athmospherics, thats 2 times biger engines couldnt cope with the turbos.
PORSCHE 996 TURBO IS NOT IN THE SAME CLASS AS THE 360 MODENA, AND IT WILL NEVER BE. AS FOR THE GT2 THAT IS RIDICULUS.
THE 360 CS AND THE GT3 RS ARE IN THE SAME CLASS.
SAME ENGINE SIZE SAME ENGINE CLASIFICATION, SAME BIFED UP RACING CHASSIS AND SAME TIRES( NOT SURE ABOUT THE TIRES).
ERGO SAME CLASS.
THE ASPHALT TEMP WAS 16 degries, quit using demagogy, and rethoric.
U want to compar performancwe for money go by a Skoda, Price tags are irelevant Ferrari is allways more expensive.
Don't you think we're getting a little bit rude here?
Anyway. I see your argument and to me it's an interesting point of view NOT to compare the current 911 turbo with the current V8-Ferrari because they don't share the same engine classification. Different opinion but worth a thought.
OTOH they have similar power output, similar price tag, similar performance numbers and they attract similar people, what means car nuts with an addiction to sports cars.
Most probably there are many more similarities, but these alone justify to compare the turbo-Porsches with the V8-Ferrari, with the supercharger-Ford GT, with the 4WD-V10-Gallardo...
Nov 23, 2005 12:38:18 AM
Nov 23, 2005 1:11:06 AM
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Lazy Cat said:
It's not fair at all to compare an atmospheric engine with a turbo one. Porsche needs a turbo to go over 105 bhp/l with their engines, Ferrari doesn't.
After all it's a Porsche problem, if their atmo street cars can't keep the same level of power and acceleration as the Ferraris, they must not cry, take the turbo model and say: "no, the real competitor is the turbo!" that's too easy!!!
Quote:
vinnie said:
I have a german magazine called Auto Zeitung from late 2003. In the magazine they have a full road test between the Ferrari 360 CS and the Porsche GT3 RS. The Ferrari had a 2/10 second advantage per lap. I think that Ferrari is the victor here because the cars were tested on the same day in the same way. But to me it still was not equal because the 360 CS was not the challenge racing version unlike the Porsche. Both cars had the same engine capacity and on the day the Ferrari 360 CS came out on top of the most extreem 911, the GT3 RS. The more fair comparison would have been Ferrari 360 CS against Porsche GT3, but Ferrari was faster than the much more extreem GT3 RS.
Quote:
vinnie said:The more fair comparison would have been Ferrari 360 CS against Porsche GT3, but Ferrari was faster than the much more extreem GT3 RS.
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arakis said:
As for the turbo and 360, like a guy said here few posts ago, the only reason why they compere a turbo with a 360 is becouse the thats the only way a porsche is going to get out that much power.
Nov 23, 2005 12:45:13 PM
Quote:
arakis said:
As for the turbo and 360, like a guy said here few posts ago, the only reason why they compere a turbo with a 360 is becouse the thats the only way a porsche is going to get out that much power. Now that could be because porsche is known for its overengeneiring and they make their cars overreliable.
Nov 23, 2005 1:25:19 PM
Nov 23, 2005 1:31:24 PM
Nov 23, 2005 3:07:12 PM
Nov 23, 2005 3:41:06 PM
I hate seeing spelling errors to. Quote:
Crash said:
Guys, I think it's time you started limiting the number of forum users. Characters such as arakis and vinnie remind me of the fanboys I used to see on more "popular" car forums. Please, don't let Rennteam go down that path, or else it will turn into Supercars.net...
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