Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed! - Page5

Nov 17, 2005 3:36:46 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12588, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
Grant said:
Have you seen the torque curve of the Chevy 7.0L V8? It makes over 400ft-lbs at just over idle, peaks at 470ft-lbs, and revs to 7,100 rpm before fuel shutoff (and it has no turbo lag).

You need to have a wider perspective: what about fuel consumption? What about future emissions laws? And finally: do you know that in a lot of countries, including Germany, you have to pay the car taxes depending on the displacement? Ask an Italian what a car with a 7.0 l fuel engine costs taxes over there.

RC - The fuel mileage is incredible on the Z06. I think the Vette is the only car with a V8 bigger than 5L that has no gas-guzzler tax in the USA (6L and 7L versions both comply), afaik. The mileage on the highway is over 25mpg (I think the 996TT is around 18). Mostly this is due to crazy gearing (6th is simply for cruising), but it is very efficient...

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Nov 17, 2005 3:38:50 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59607, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: mcdelaug

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

Quote:
mcdelaug said:
I realize that the Z06 may be more expensive in Europe than in the US, but you can pay a lot of taxes for the price difference between the 997TT and the Z06.

Maybe, someday, someone on rennteam will drive the Z06 and 997TT and post their thoughts...I'm hoping that will happen anyway.

mcdelaug

I agree completely. But this isn't only about the base price or taxes. Where do I find a competent mechanic/repair service for the Z06 over here? Right...the next Opel service.

Well, Opel isn't quite the luxury/sportscar brand over here in Germany, if you understand what I mean.

Spare parts? Well, my father owned a Buick many many many years ago and he waited six months for a tail light (parking damage). From what I heard, it requires up to 4-6 weeks to get the necessary parts from GM overe here, especially for not so common models like the Z06.

Resale value...is there a resale value for a Corvette over here?

The guy who made the 996 Turbo vs. Viper video bought his C06 brandnew with over 20% rebate and fully loaded. And finally, image: in my profession, I can't "afford" to be seen in a Corvette. I agree that in the US, the Corvette is THE sportscar like the 911 is over here in Germany. But over here in Germany, US cars (mainly Corvettes) were very often driven by members of the "red light districts", you get my point. This changed a lot over the past years but the Corvette still has that image in a way or another.

IF I could afford (financially speaking) a 997 Turbo AND a Z06, no doubt, I would own both. Since I can't afford it, I stick with the more expensive car due to various and very obvious reasons, especially over here in Germany.

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Nov 17, 2005 3:44:51 PM

amjf088: Co-Pilot; Loc: Toronto, Canada , Canada; Posts: 256, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 6, 2005; Reply to: Grant

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

Quote:
Grant said:
Quote:
mav21386 said:
your all forgeting one tiny little problem for the 997TT, the C6 Corvette Z06. they better give it a better power to weight ratio than that thing or i am going to be angry.

In order to do that, the 997TT will need to make exactly 596hp (assuming a reasonable estimate of 3,700 lbs curb weight).

BTW, the Z06 really does weigh 3,130 lbs in street trim (unlike the optimistic estimates of Porsche's specs).

Grant,

can you validate the claim that a stock (no option) 997 or 997S has an actual curb weight greater than what Porsche publishes? I'm not doubting you, I would just be interested in knowing all about this. I had always felt Porsche tended to be correct with their claimed data, and even somewhat conservative when it came to hp and performance numbers.

Thanks!

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Nov 17, 2005 4:01:37 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12588, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: amjf088

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

Quote:
amjf088 said:Grant,

can you validate the claim that a stock (no option) 997 or 997S has an actual curb weight greater than what Porsche publishes? I'm not doubting you, I would just be interested in knowing all about this. I had always felt Porsche tended to be correct with their claimed data, and even somewhat conservative when it came to hp and performance numbers.

Thanks!

I cannot provide my own data, but many folks have placed their cars on race scales for corner balancing and achieved weights that were MUCH higher than the published specs. When I had a 2002 996 Carrera 2, the manual said 2,965 lbs curb weight, but several people saw over 3,200 lbs on the scales...

Porsche is conservative with engine power specs, but not weight. Ferrari is conservative with neither...

Many times magazine reviews will provide the actual weight as tested also - and it is always higher than the spec...

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Nov 17, 2005 5:52:24 PM

Texas911: Senior; Loc: Houston, Texas - USA; Posts: 766, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2003; Reply to: Grant

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

When the Z06 comes with AWD and rear seats, then we can compare the two.

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Nov 17, 2005 6:02:44 PM

turbolite: Veteran; Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 1012, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 26, 2004; Reply to: Texas911

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

It's kind of amazing... EVERY time the argument revolves round the 997tt, the Z06 comes up as Jack in the box...

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Nov 17, 2005 6:04:00 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12588, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Texas911

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

Quote:
Texas911 said:
When the Z06 comes with AWD and rear seats, then we can compare the two.

I guess we'll have to compare it to the GT2 then

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Nov 17, 2005 6:05:38 PM

bostonmini: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 924, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 31, 2003; Reply to: turbolite

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

why the zo6? the viper has been around for a long time, why not just use that as the benchmark, its cheap, plastic, and has an enormous/inefficient motor under the hood with a horrible interior;)

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Nov 17, 2005 6:11:19 PM

Turbo Al: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Rochester, New York , United States; Posts: 2531, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

Quote:
RC said:
I agree that in the US, the Corvette is THE sportscar like the 911 is over here in Germany. But over here in Germany, US cars (mainly Corvettes) were very often driven by members of the "red light districts", you get my point. This changed a lot over the past years but the Corvette still has that image in a way or another.

RC,

In many ways, the 'Vette still has that rep. here in the US.

Partly because of its relatively low price in the US, it always had that American "muscle car" rep. that attracted the middle-class (or lower

) sports car fan, it would be uncommon in the US to see a couple in 3-piece suit and evening gown driving to the opera in a 'Vette (

), rather, one would see some guy behind the wheel with the extra gold chains and the tattered jeans with the dice hanging off the rearview mirror.

Of course, this is just a stereotype-but stereotypes are usually based on some element of reality-the reason they develop in the first place. BUT this is changing with the 'Vette, especially since its power and driving abilities are increasing.

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Nov 17, 2005 6:16:36 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: mcdelaug

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

Quote:
mcdelaug said:
Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
Grant said:
Have you seen the torque curve of the Chevy 7.0L V8? It makes over 400ft-lbs at just over idle, peaks at 470ft-lbs, and revs to 7,100 rpm before fuel shutoff (and it has no turbo lag).

You need to have a wider perspective: what about fuel consumption? What about future emissions laws? And finally: do you know that in a lot of countries, including Germany, you have to pay the car taxes depending on the displacement? Ask an Italian what a car with a 7.0 l fuel engine costs taxes over there.

I realize that the Z06 may be more expensive in Europe than in the US, but you can pay a lot of taxes for the price difference between the 997TT and the Z06.

Maybe, someday, someone on rennteam will drive the Z06 and 997TT and post their thoughts...I'm hoping that will happen anyway.

mcdelaug

sportauto will do supertests of both cars within the next 12 months. Then all questions will be answered

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Nov 17, 2005 6:19:36 PM

med: Pilot; Loc: London; Posts: 394, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 4, 2004; Reply to: igzaklee

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

Quote:
igzaklee said:
i just lit a ceremonial candle, that i promise to KEEP LIT by my computer for the next several months, as prayer offering to the "Gods of 508" who will decide our fate(s) with the next 997 Turbo...

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Nov 17, 2005 6:23:44 PM

MKW: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Palo Alto and North Lake Tahoe , United States; Posts: 2491, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 22, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
Grant said:
Have you seen the torque curve of the Chevy 7.0L V8? It makes over 400ft-lbs at just over idle, peaks at 470ft-lbs, and revs to 7,100 rpm before fuel shutoff (and it has no turbo lag).

You need to have a wider perspective: what about fuel consumption?

Some C6 Z06 owners have gotten 25-27 mpg on long freeway cruising because it can lope along at barely above idle speed in 6th gear with that torque . . Pretty amazing for a car that gets that power. What does an F430 or 575 get on the freeway .. 10-12 mpg ? Heck, Audi S4 owners complain they get avg of 13-15 mpg !The best I've gotten on my Turbo is 21.5 mpg on long freeway cruising .

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Nov 17, 2005 6:30:31 PM

mcdelaug: Expert; Loc: Fort Worth, Texas , United States; Posts: 1921, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 3, 2004; Reply to: turbolite

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

Quote:
turbolite said:
It's kind of amazing... EVERY time the argument revolves round the 997tt, the Z06 comes up as Jack in the box...

I think this simply reflects the fact that GM and Porsche have reached a similar performance point with very different strategies and very different price points. It is entirely natural that these vehicles don't share the same customer base. As a Porsche buyer the question you have to (or should) ask yourself is, could I be just as happy for less money? For practically everyone on rennteam, the answer is clearly NO. But in all honesty, and I've read and participated in a lot of threads on this issue, the reasons for that are ALMOST NEVER performance related.

I'm not a Corvette owner, aspirant or apologist, but I respect the Z06 as a real sportscar that will offer significant entertainment for your money. Obviously, many people want more than just performance and value in a car, and we have Porsche for that.

mcdelaug

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Nov 17, 2005 6:33:23 PM

mcdelaug: Expert; Loc: Fort Worth, Texas , United States; Posts: 1921, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 3, 2004; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
mcdelaug said:
Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
Grant said:
Have you seen the torque curve of the Chevy 7.0L V8? It makes over 400ft-lbs at just over idle, peaks at 470ft-lbs, and revs to 7,100 rpm before fuel shutoff (and it has no turbo lag).

You need to have a wider perspective: what about fuel consumption? What about future emissions laws? And finally: do you know that in a lot of countries, including Germany, you have to pay the car taxes depending on the displacement? Ask an Italian what a car with a 7.0 l fuel engine costs taxes over there.

I realize that the Z06 may be more expensive in Europe than in the US, but you can pay a lot of taxes for the price difference between the 997TT and the Z06.

Maybe, someday, someone on rennteam will drive the Z06 and 997TT and post their thoughts...I'm hoping that will happen anyway.

mcdelaug

sportauto will do supertests of both cars within the next 12 months. Then all questions will be answered

Excellent!

mcdelaug

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Nov 17, 2005 6:53:49 PM

MKW: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Palo Alto and North Lake Tahoe , United States; Posts: 2491, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 22, 2002; Reply to: mcdelaug

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

Quote:

It's kind of amazing... EVERY time the argument revolves round the 997tt, the Z06 comes up as Jack in the box...

The C6 Z06 and the BMW E60 M5 are for sure this year's lighning rods/ whipping boys on the bench racing world that is the Internet . They come up and trigger long threads in every ricer and sports car board from $30K to $700K product range, lol.

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Nov 17, 2005 8:38:13 PM

POR911: Pilot; Loc: VA; Posts: 324, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2005; Reply to: MKW

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

You know the rennteam is my relibile sourse RC

. Just sometimes don't get a chance to see all the posts, and kinda feel special to find something to add to the form

! Don't worry i know whats up

!

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Nov 17, 2005 10:26:05 PM

TestnDoc: Newbie; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 35, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 26, 2003; Reply to: POR911

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

RC,

You are the "man in the know". What is your best guess on HP and torque ratings on the 997TT and do you think the cabs and "S" version will be rolled out around the same time like the 997 N/A???
Thanks

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Nov 17, 2005 10:40:20 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59607, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: TestnDoc

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

Quote:
TestnDoc said:
RC,

You are the "man in the know". What is your best guess on HP and torque ratings on the 997TT and do you think the cabs and "S" version will be rolled out around the same time like the 997 N/A???
Thanks

Guys, sorry for the misunderstanding but Rennteam.com is NOT only RC. I'm just one of the two editors, not to speak about the many moderators who do a great job and a humble servant of this community. The rumors and infos we get are collected by us editors and moderators, not only by me.
Just wanted to point this out.

Regarding power and torque figures, there have been various threads. To make it short: rumored power figures are 480, 483, 500 and 508 HP. Rumored torque figures are in the 700-800 Nm range. Sorry, I wish we had more.

And to be clear: all above rumors still can be wrong, so PLEASE DO NOT count on them when making your buying/ordering decisions.

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Nov 17, 2005 11:05:41 PM

turbolite: Veteran; Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 1012, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 26, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

Quote:
Grant said:
Quote:
Texas911 said:
When the Z06 comes with AWD and rear seats, then we can compare the two.

I guess we'll have to compare it to the GT2 then

actually dueto the price we should compare it to the gt3 at max. pity there is no cayman rs...

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Nov 18, 2005 2:30:47 AM

Turbo Al: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Rochester, New York , United States; Posts: 2531, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: turbolite

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

Quote:
turbolite said:
Quote:
Grant said:
Quote:
Texas911 said:
When the Z06 comes with AWD and rear seats, then we can compare the two.

I guess we'll have to compare it to the GT2 then

actually dueto the price we should compare it to the gt3 at max. pity there is no cayman rs...

Yes Turbolite, maybe P WILL build a Cayman with more power-how about a TT version-they could call it, what?, the GT4 or just Cayman Turbo?

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Nov 18, 2005 4:33:42 AM

jandreas: Junior; Loc: STX , U.S. Virgin Islands; Posts: 75, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 6, 2002; Reply to: Turbo Al

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

From the patent application...

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Nov 18, 2005 4:34:54 AM

jandreas: Junior; Loc: STX , U.S. Virgin Islands; Posts: 75, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 6, 2002; Reply to: jandreas

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

which probably means Borg-Warner won't/can't make these available for the aftermarket or if they do they won't be as good (just like 99% of aftermarket OEM Porsche parts).

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Nov 18, 2005 7:28:21 AM

andrea: Rennteam Master; Loc: Italy, Pordenone , Italy; Posts: 3569, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 24, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
TestnDoc said:
RC,

You are the "man in the know". What is your best guess on HP and torque ratings on the 997TT and do you think the cabs and "S" version will be rolled out around the same time like the 997 N/A???
Thanks

Guys, sorry for the misunderstanding but Rennteam.com is NOT only RC. I'm just one of the two editors, not to speak about the many moderators who do a great job and a humble servant of this community. The rumors and infos we get are collected by us editors and moderators, not only by me.
Just wanted to point this out.

Regarding power and torque figures, there have been various threads. To make it short: rumored power figures are 480, 483, 500 and 508 HP. Rumored torque figures are in the 700-800 Nm range. Sorry, I wish we had more.

And to be clear: all above rumors still can be wrong, so PLEASE DO NOT count on them when making your buying/ordering decisions.

700-800Nm?????
Amazing!!!!!!

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Nov 18, 2005 9:56:56 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
TestnDoc said:
Rumored torque figures are in the 700-800 Nm range.

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Nov 18, 2005 10:13:18 AM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: andrea

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

by the way , anybody knows who manufactures the vgt turbo of the 997tt? is it KKK like always?

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Nov 18, 2005 1:12:32 PM

bostonmini: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 924, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 31, 2003; Reply to: dhayek

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

BORG WARNER. At least thats how I understood it.

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Nov 18, 2005 5:03:01 PM

turbolite: Veteran; Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 1012, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 26, 2004; Reply to: dhayek

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

Quote:
dhayek said:
by the way , anybody knows who manufactures the vgt turbo of the 997tt? is it KKK like always?

as I mentioned in a thread this summer, it's Borg Warner. They bought KKK a couple of years ago and expanded the biz massively. They are now the second largest turbo producer in the world after Honeywell if I'm not mistaken.

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Nov 18, 2005 5:15:33 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59607, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: dhayek

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

Quote:
dhayek said:
by the way , anybody knows who manufactures the vgt turbo of the 997tt? is it KKK like always?

Like "turbolite" already said: KKK is owned by Borg Warner now.

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Nov 18, 2005 6:39:03 PM

brunner: Veteran; Loc: E. Europe , Romania; Posts: 1125, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 28, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

Sooooooo... Porsche uses Borg technology to take over the world?
MUAHAHAHAHA! (<evil laughter>)

Heh

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Nov 18, 2005 9:43:20 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59607, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: brunner

Re: 997 turbo: VTG confirmed!

Quote:
brunner said:
Sooooooo... Porsche uses Borg technology to take over the world?
MUAHAHAHAHA! (<evil laughter>)

Heh

Resistance is futile...you will be assimilated...

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