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    Re: Top Gear onTV just now: 997S beat the M6 and AM

    Quote:
    Duncan said:
    Quote:
    Lohengrin said:
    Quote:
    Duncan said:
    Quote:
    EnglishManInNY said:
    997S 1.29.9
    M6 1.35.75
    AMV8 1.35.8

    I must admit I didn't see it. I heard it on a phone call to my father back in Yorkshire. Can't wait for it to be posted on www.finalgear.com


    M5 E60 1,26.2
    Lotus Exige 1,26.4




    IT WAS ON THE WET AND FOGGY...ARE THESE TIME COMPARABLE?


    996 GT3 1.27.2 dry
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/powerlaps/
    997 S only on the wet..........why?



    'cos it was raining that day.

    Re: Top Gear onTV just now: 997S beat the M6 and AM

    Quote:
    JJBlade said:
    Quote:
    madadd said:

    Although I so wanted the 911 to win..

    It was a forgone conclusion. I am sure the stig is more than experienced at driving 911's. No one will be overly experienced in the other 2!

    And that M6 is soo fugly! I don't go with the Aston being gorgeous either. I really don't understand the huge waiting list. Must be a badge thing!

    ...Add



    You must be joking. You think a top driver would have any trouble in getting into a new car and extracting every last ounce of performance out of it?



    No! I think a top driver will be able to get more from a car that he knows well than one that he doesn't.The confidence and knowledge of how your equipment behaves is worth enough to make a difference.

    As for the LSD and -20mm. Maybe a second difference. Remember that with the Walter Rohrl ring times it made less than a percent difference. And as has been discussed here many times the biggest difference (PASM vs -20mm) is how it feels. And thus how much enjoyment it gives.

    Cheers

    ...Add

    How is the M6 better?

    Quote:
    BD 997 said:
    the M6 is still a better car IMO



    It just got stuffed on Top Gear. It also got stuffed on the Evo test track by the 997S. And when Car tested the M6 and 997s against the Ariel, it lost again to the 997S.

    I can't see anywhere that the M6 is better other than a meaningless drag race.

    Can you explain why you think the M6 is better than the 997S?

    Re: How is the M6 better?

    Quote:
    Le Chef said:

    Can you explain why you think the M6 is better than the 997S?



    I might feel tired one day and have to get someone at the airport. I arrive at baggage claim and there's now two of them and luggage. Driving back home I'm excited and rested and I beat the pi** out of the M6 show my guests what a great job BMW has done. The M6 would be a much better car than my 997S for this, a typical situation.



    Also it's a better car to get used to for the eventual M3 replacement (looks a little less bad than M5).

    Take the other car

    I wouldn't mind taking the 997 to the airport to pick up someone, but I would FOR SURE know if two people were coming before I set off. Seems like a poor excuse, particularly as the 997 is such an easy car to drive - not much harder than a Civic.

    Re: Take the other car

    Guys,

    Here's a link to the episode's torrent:

    http://www.mininova.org/tor/152971

    Can't wait to watch it myself!

    Re: How is the M6 better?

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    Le Chef said:

    Can you explain why you think the M6 is better than the 997S?



    I might feel tired one day and have to get someone at the airport. I arrive at baggage claim and there's now two of them and luggage. Driving back home I'm excited and rested and I beat the pi** out of the M6 show my guests what a great job BMW has done. The M6 would be a much better car than my 997S for this, a typical situation.



    Also it's a better car to get used to for the eventual M3 replacement (looks a little less bad than M5).



    Flawlessly put, MMD

    Re: Top Gear onTV just now: 997S beat the M6 and AM

    Quote:
    BD 997 said:
    the M6 is still a better car IMO



    Sounds like you are switching teams , tell me it's no so. I know couple of guys in Houston that have traded their 996TT for the new M5.

    Are you thinking about doing the same?

    Re: Top Gear onTV just now: 997S beat the M6 and AM

    The M5 and AMV8 are at a definite disadvantage in the wet compared to the traction of the 997S. But still, what a big disappointment the AMV8 is so far. Very expensive and not all that sporty apparently.

    - J

    Top Gear: 997S beat the M6 and AMV8

    I enjoyed the head to head comparison last night on Top Gear. I think they could have done it much better though. Spending all that time fishing with JC making the idiotic comment about fishing rods not fitting in a 997S is totally irrelevant. They base their judgements more on how they perceive the cars than on how they perform.

    I always expected the 997S to be way ahead of the M6 and AMV8 in the timed comparison. I didn't expect the gap to be 6 seconds though. That's an eternity in a 1.5 minute comparison.

    It just goes to show that there's so much more to it than just horsepower. It's so obvious the M6 has it so badly wrong with all its excessive electronic trickery. It's too heavy and cumbersome. The boot is still hideously ugly. I think the fisker version is much much better. I posted some pics after I came back from the IAA Frankfurt back in Sept for those that are interested.

    Although the presenters were all disappointed with the comparative lack of torque of the AMV8, I think they also all suffered an inevitable let down because they had all been waiting for so long for this car with such enormous hopes and expectations of it. I guess it's like waiting in anticipation for sleeping with a supermodel. You fantasize it'll be an amazing, life-changing experience but the reality is such an anticlimax. I think this feeling of anticlimax was only made worse by the perception that the AMV8 sounds so great such that it sounds so much more powerful and engaging than it is rewarding to drive i.e. it makes a lot of noise but doesn't deliver what the sound makes you expect.

    The fact that the AMV8 turned out to be completely and utterly obliterated by the 997S must have been a truly crushing blow especially for James May (traditional British gent) and Jeremy Clarkson (who simply hates Porsche and all things German). Richard Hammond has always been a 911 fan but when JC is around, RH and JM always get bullied by the big man. For once, they stood up to him. I think it's because they've both ordered new Porsches. I believe JM has ordered the new 987S and RH the new 997S. I'm not sure about the latter though.

    I only saw the programme once last night. I recorded it on video so I will watch it again a few times to 'absorb' everything thoroughly. However, I should ask, am I right in recollecting that JC didn't actually drive the 997S? I know RH and JM did. If so, it's just typical and pathetic of JC not even to drive it. I think he had already made up his mind not to like it even before they went to the Isle of Man. For him the 997S is like Pete Sampras. The most complete player in modern times (14 slams) but people hate to admit that so far he's the best ever because he wasn't a showman ... just a purist's dream. [Of course, Sampras may be overtaken in a few years by the amazing Roger Federer].

    I'd appreciate it if someone could confirm definitively that the 997S in the programme had -20 sports suspension. Is the registration number really the same as the car featured previously in EVO?

    I particularly liked the comment from JM about the 997S being understated. JC idiotically said that the 997S is a 'look at me' car...as if his Ford GT and the Ferrari F430 (both of which he likes) aren't?

    If the Porsche was made by an English company, JC would love it. It would pain him to admit this but I'm positive it's the truth. I also think he doesn't like the kind of people in the UK who would buy a 911. He doesn't like brash showoffs but he seems to identify BMW and Porsche drivers in particular as being the kind of people who fall into this category. I think it's an unfair stance. I'm sure plenty of brash people might prefer an AMG Merc, an Audi TT, a Ferrari 360/F430 or a Lamborghini Gallardo/Murcielago. So why the anti BMW/Porsche hostility from JC. I think it's just blind prejudice. I guess standing for something requires one to be against something.

    Just my stray thoughts...interested as always to hear what you think!

    Re: Top Gear: 997S beat the M6 and AMV8

    Yes that car is the -20mm one.

    Did JC drive it? I would be 99% certain he did at some point but with all that fishing and eating going on they probably ran out of time to show/record any footage.

    Re: Top Gear onTV just now: 997S beat the M6 and AM

    Quote:
    BD 997 said:
    the M6 is still a better car IMO



    Apparently Rennteam doesn't have a laughing-so-hard-I-can't-believe-you-would-say-such-a-ludicrous-thing-are-you-serious-? smiley

    Re: Top Gear onTV just now: 997S beat the M6 and AM

    I don't know if JC drove it (although I'm sure he did), but he tested a yellow 997S last season. Despite a bunch of stupid comments, mainly for the intent of adding humour, he seemed to like that car. In fact, I got the impression that he liked it a lot. He liked the GT3 and Carrera GT as well.

    Re: Top Gear: 997S beat the M6 and AMV8

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    Although the presenters were all disappointed with the comparative lack of torque of the AMV8, I think they also all suffered an inevitable let down because they had all been waiting for so long for this car with such enormous hopes and expectations of it.



    I think Aston has part to blame here, they marketede the AMV8 as the 911-killer right form the start, and constantly refered to it in temrs of performance. The first car that would menace the 40 year long domination of the 911 in its class... the AMV8 beats the 91*1 in the ring, bla,bla...

    And now when the cars are compared the disappointment comes... 6 seconds on a 1:30 long lap!! and on pro-Aston Top gear no less! Even the PASM-997S version would have lapped significantly faster since the difference in lap time of the -20mm and the PASM version is much less than that...

    We have talked about this before the comparison, AM's marketing startegy about rivaling the 911 in perfromance is creating false expectations that they will not be able to maintain when the momoent of truth comes out... some people believed that the AMV8 could actually lap the ring faster than the 997S form the publicity... they should have marketed it exclusively as a GT'ish/exclusive/beautiful looking alternative to the 911 IMO.

    Re: Top Gear: 997S beat the M6 and AMV8

    let put it this way ! the amv8 were target to kill 996 not the 997 . i don't think that amv8 can kill the 987s too

    Re: Top Gear onTV just now: 997S beat the M6 and AM

    Quote:
    BD 997 said:
    the M6 is still a better car IMO



    I tend to disagree. From my point of view. the "best" car out there is the new BMW M5. It is fast, it has a lot of interior and luggage room, it looks nice and it costs only as much as a 997 Carrera S with a few minor options or as much as a 997 Carrera witl a few more options.
    Fact is: if somebody doesn't care too much about having a "true" sportscar with two doors, the M5 is the best deal one can make. You get what you're paying for...and more.

    Re: Top Gear onTV just now: 997S beat the M6 and AM

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    BD 997 said:
    the M6 is still a better car IMO



    I tend to disagree. From my point of view. the "best" car out there is the new BMW M5. It is fast, it has a lot of interior and luggage room, it looks nice and it costs only as much as a 997 Carrera S with a few minor options or as much as a 997 Carrera witl a few more options.
    Fact is: if somebody doesn't care too much about having a "true" sportscar with two doors, the M5 is the best deal one can make. You get what you're paying for...and more.



    Totally agree , I got a soft spot for the new 5 series.

    The old 5 , I would not have touch it..

    throt...

    Re: Top Gear onTV just now: 997S beat the M6 and AM

    Quote:
    I really don't understand the huge waiting list. Must be a badge thing!



    it's a UK thing

    Re: Top Gear onTV just now: 997S beat the M6 and AM

    I saw the programme again on video. Confirmed: (1) they did not actually show JC drive the 997S (although he may have done off camera) and (2) the 997S in question had registration number RX54WJK which is the same car as in the Autocar article on 30th Aug 2005. That car has -20mm sports suspension and PCCB and (3) the times were:

    997S: 1 min 29.985 secs
    AMV8: 1 min 35.817 secs
    M6: 1 min 35.875 secs

    Re: Top Gear onTV just now: 997S beat the M6 and AM

    I agree with JJ, the AM Vantage does not do anything for me, the front is kind of wierd looking. The best looking AM in my opinion is the DB9 and even Vanquish does not appeal to me that much and at that price I would go for the 575M superamerica, any day

    Re: Top Gear onTV just now: 997S beat the M6 and AM

    Oh Lord thankyou for allowing someone to agree with me. I thought the day would never come

    Re: Top Gear onTV just now: 997S beat the M6 and AM

    as i said from day one aston martin are over price !

    Re: Top Gear: 997S beat the M6 and AMV8

    The big problem with the Aston is the DB9, the AMV8 cant encroach on the DB9 performance, similarly to the boxter, cayman v 997 comparisons.
    Personally I think its a really beautiful car, friends that have owned the DB9 have suffered with reliability problems...so we've got the better machine, just wished the 997s had another 40bhp standard then it would be game set and match.....roll on the turbo...

    Re: Top Gear: 997S beat the M6 and AMV8

    I know I wished that 997S had 400h.p. but knowing ourselves even if the 997S had 400 h.p. we would be begging for more h.p.?? That's just life my friends

    Re: Top Gear: 997S beat the M6 and AMV8

    Yea, but at about 400bhp with the PO weight advantage....M6, M5's would probably not have an advantage in a drag race... don't get me wrong....I'm no boy racer but I'd hate to be blasted by a family sports salon, with 4 adults and car boot full of stuff....unfortunately, its reality...
    Beware of M5's on the motorway

    Re: Top Gear onTV just now: 997S beat the M6 and AM

    Quote:
    bazza said:
    as i said from day one aston martin are over price !



    You forgot to say on day two they are slower than a Porsche!

    Re: Top Gear onTV just now: 997S beat the M6 and AM

    Jim! that no need to mention!

    Re: Top Gear onTV just now: 997S beat the M6 and AM

    Slightly OT, but some of you might be interested...

    Here's a video of the M6 racing a Ruf R Turbo (Thanks to Gustav @ m5board)

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1137028469514901966&q=m6+ruf


    Re: Top Gear onTV just now: 997S beat the M6 and AM

    no ! not that stupid drag shxt a again! any amerian muscle can do better

    Why is "performance" such a hard concept to grasp?

    If you want a drag racer buy one. If you want a car that can do more than cover ground fast in a straight line then buy one.

    If you want a sports car buy a 997.
    If you want a sports sedan buy an M5.
    But don't confuse the two based on straight line performance

     
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