Crown

noone1:

MKSGR:

BjoernB:

the gaps would be smaller - simple - or are you saying that a GTR compensates 100HP to the 488 and 11 seconds with just rear-wheel steering ? a 488 is surely a Benchmark - and was measured with 703 HP.....

Also, the AMG GTS (basically the same car before optimization) was about 25s (!) slower than the car tested now. Very unlikely.

Well, HvS did the test in the GTS and CG is supposedly quite a bit quicker, so chop off some time. Add RWS. Add better tires. Add tuned suspension. Add better aero. Add more aggressive tuning for everything.

On a 7 minute lap, tires alone easily drop 7-10s off the lap.

And then use the mighty powers of the stars and shave off another 30s and you are at 6.30. It seems you are under the influence of some mysterious substance tonight  At least your posts lack any logic.

KresoF1:

MKSGR:

BjoernB:

the gaps would be smaller - simple - or are you saying that a GTR compensates 100HP to the 488 and 11 seconds with just rear-wheel steering ? a 488 is surely a Benchmark - and was measured with 703 HP.....

Also, the AMG GTS (basically the same car before optimization) was about 25s (!) slower than the car tested now. Very unlikely.

Markus,

I respect you highly but here you are eithet 100% right or 100% wrong.

No little bit right or little bit wrong.

IF you are right then Sport Auto can immediately stop to exist. Yes, that is my honest opinion since IF you are right their credibility is flashed down the toilet.

If you are wrong nothing major will happen. Only you will have to admit to yourself that you were wrong.

Not really. They build their story such that they could get out of it without permanent damage. They just need to say that the production car performed differently than this prototype. That's why I think it is a clever move to help Mercedes with their bad reputation gained with their underperforming GT models so far 

Just had a chat with my mate, VLN champion 2011, 24 hours winner N'Ring 2016 in an AMG GT3 and he thinks the lap by Gebhard is great, still 3-6 second faster is possible. Grip compared to standard AMG GT S much better, also due to the tailor made tires. Call him biased but the car is quick for real.

And why shouldn't be  the car be that much quicker than the standard car? BMW M3 E46 vs. CSL, more than 30 seconds quicker, so better tires, aero, RWS and more power can make that happen.

Even as a diehard Porsche fan, I have to say, Porsche should come down from their high horse, treating customers like petitioners. I told them so today and they weren't too pleased. The company I work for almost went bust for being so high stuck up their ass as Porsche nowadays is.

Mike

noone1:

 

GT R is fast. When you take into account all the potential differences, the time is fine. 

You made this point three times now and you might have realized that the majority here of another opinion. So you might also stop posting the same again and again. It just takes server space.

It's cool, you just chose not to believe it for some reason. You have no information that says the contrary, you have tons of information than say the GT R is legit, and yet you still have a problem with it.

Poster above you just said his friend who drives the AMG GT3 told him the GT R is legit. How much more proof do you need? Go buy one and find out if you're in disbelief. Even if the car was 10 s slow, it would still be better than any Porsche GT car, and cheaper too.

M3ike:

I'm impressed, my mates who race with the AMG GT3 and won the the 24hours N'Ring in 2013 and 2016 with Mercedes are equally full of praise for the car too. I'm having a sensational offer from Mercedes Switzerland too and as I've been treated badly by Porsche too, I'm seriously considering switching.

Mike

It won't be easy to let go of a GT Porsche but don't expect any progress or a miracle to happen from P side their ball massaging department is only interested in customers that are willing to buy their future products that are still under development / pending / concept phase.

If you plan to get the AMG, I'd say wait for Black Series then decide between it and the GTR. Otherwise, there will be two more options, Huracan and 488 hardcore versions.

KresoF1:

Got that info from my Motorpress friend few days ago. CG was extremly impressed with GT R.

Car is very fast everywhere.  Be it country roads, autobahn or on the track. In fact on track it beats complete competition. It is much faster on the track then 675LT(Trofeos!) for example.

No Porsche can beat it on the Ring except 918 Spyder. New 991.2 GT3 is not nearly close and 991.2 GT2 RS mule did almost the same time few months ago (with close to 700ps).

Price wise GT R is a bargin as well. Kudos to Mercedes AMG for truly amazing product.

Btw, AMG GT R Supertest will be published very, very soon. Nordschleife record run is in current issue.

 

interesting kreso. do you want one? actually i don't......reputation of mercedes? don't know...

So who is going to buy the first one here, so we can finally verify if this car merits all that praise? 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

noone1:

It's cool, you just chose not to believe it for some reason. You have no information that says the contrary, you have tons of information than say the GT R is legit, and yet you still have a problem with it.

Poster above you just said his friend who drives the AMG GT3 told him the GT R is legit. How much more proof do you need? Go buy one and find out if you're in disbelief. Even if the car was 10 s slow, it would still be better than any Porsche GT car, and cheaper too.

The quality of a good forum should be that people also review/question results published by third parties based on independent experience/judgement. I believe this has been an advantage of Rennteam since its foundation. We have some experience and also track-record in this field (just think of what we said about the Nissan GTR, for example, and we were totally right).

BTW, if the production car (i.e. the car one can also buy later...) is as quick as published on the NBR, does the HHR in 1.07 and does 0-200 in less than 10s and also 0-300 in less than 30s I would consider buying it. Next step would be a test drive then. But only if the mentioned criteria will be met 

RC:

So who is going to buy the first one here, so we can finally verify if this car merits all that praise? 

Do you reckon they will depreciate as much as the GT (S)? If so, better to wait a year to find out.  I would be interested for sure..

1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E / 2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2014 BMW-Alpina B3 biturbo Touring Allrad

Porker:

RC:

So who is going to buy the first one here, so we can finally verify if this car merits all that praise? 

Do you reckon they will depreciate as much as the GT (S)? If so, better to wait a year to find out.  I would be interested for sure..

That is the million dollar question  Given how the MB prices tank here in Switzerland I would not dare to buy a new one. I think only the SLS and SLR have managed to keep their value somewhat.

Many firms now offer very generous fleet discount for new MB. The prices are actually very competitive compared to equal offerings from Audi and BMW, but I suspect the market will be flooded with MB cars soon and the prices tank even more. Buy used 

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

SLS Black Series definitely didn't depreciate last time I checked. SLR definitely did not keep it's value. It was like a $500K car when it first came out. Now there are in the 200s.

Thanks for reminding me about the SLS:  http://www.autoevolution.com/news/mercedes-amg-preparing-next-generation-sls-it-could-get-hybrid-technology-113531.html

Noone1, just out of curiosity, why are you so much of a fanboy for this car?  

This was also posted by CJ over at RL

Having seen this car in person and the race car...this time is legit no doubt. No doubt this car will be faster for a lot of people vs the 3RS or next gen 3RS.  

BIG ISSUE: will it stand up to the abuse that an RS does?  

The Mercedes has: 

Rear steering
Active aero including an F-duct for drag reduction 
Monster lower diffuser for way more grip than the car should have 
100 HP extra vs the GT3RS
Way more sophisticated TCS/ ESC and Suspension electronics. 

The GTD IMSA car will be pretty unstoppable especially with Riley running it.

kingjr9000:

Noone1, just out of curiosity, why are you so much of a fanboy for this car?  

Not a fanboy for it at all. I think the car is ugly and I'd never want one.

That said, there's no reason to doubt the time. Mercedes does all the same racing as everyone else, more or less. They have more money than most high-end and exotic companies. No reason to think Mercedes couldn't make a car like this. If they can make a GT S and a GT3, then they should have no problem making a car in the middle.

Btw - that's the ad from the sportauto test-issue...AMG was very quick. ;-)

Blueflame

blueflame:

Btw - that's the ad from the sportauto test-issue...AMG was very quick. ;-)

Blueflame

There is even a second (!) add on the AMG GT in the magazine. Incredible.

noone1:

kingjr9000:

Noone1, just out of curiosity, why are you so much of a fanboy for this car?  

Not a fanboy for it at all. I think the car is ugly and I'd never want one.

That said, there's no reason to doubt the time. Mercedes does all the same racing as everyone else, more or less. They have more money than most high-end and exotic companies. No reason to think Mercedes couldn't make a car like this. If they can make a GT S and a GT3, then they should have no problem making a car in the middle.

Oh ok, so just logic, then.

It's amazing how many people here totally flip out whenever a non Porsche does some impressive numbers lol

Clearly the car is fast as hell. I just have a really hard time believing a time like this was achieved with OOB equipment and setup.
The AMG is a 1.550 kg REAR wheel drive, front engine car with partly carbon fiber chassis and 585 PS.
Yet it somehow beats a mid-engined, 4WD two-seater 1.640 kg full-carbon chassis car with 887 PS.
Not only that, it also does it despite having a top speed of 320 km/h versus the 918´s 350 km/h.
On top of that, they did it using street legal, production car rubber.  

Commenting on their Youtube video, Auto Sport stated that the rubber only has to have 1.6 mm grooves to be street legal, which seems to be a very odd comment to make, if you´re testing a car that is supposedly the same as the one customers will get (fresh tires, one would assume). 
I mean, why even open a debate about groove depth if the tires are NOT so groove-less they border on slicks, or ARE slicks? 

Also, why do they seem to have slicks for the car lined up? (See picture. Not my comment fyi.)
They just happened to be there? They are worn Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2? 
If they are slicks, why are they even there? Perhaps there is a perfectly logical explanation?

Sport Auto cleared the front page with "faster than the 918 Spyder", which makes me wonder if they are more interested in selling magazines (or promoting this car), than making accurate statements. 
As we all know, the 918 driven by Marc Lieb was 14 seconds faster, yet they choose to compare the time to their OWN 918 time. It´s like me stating that I just outran a 918 in my RS3 (...because I drove the 918 slowly)

"They wouldn´t risk cheating, and why would they?"
This seems to be an airtight argument. One that I would agree with - if it wasn´t for the many proofs to the contrary.
It wouldn´t be the first time someone bent the truth or rules to promote a car, or any other product.
People and companies lie all the time to get ahead, sell magazines or whatever their goal is. 

How about Diesel-gate?
Or remember the The Ferrari/McLaren spying scandal of 2007? Or the illegal launch control systems of Benetton?
The BAR hidden fuel tank, the secret McLaren automatic gearbox program, or Ferrari´s traction control in 1995?
Wherever there is big money involved, corners will be cut.
Besides, who can prove what tires Sport Auto were using, or if the PS Cup 2 were street legal or not?

Unless the AMG 9-level TC system, the active rear axel and their aerodynamics package is SO groundbreaking, never-seen-before (and amazing), that it compensates for other clear shortcomings compared to the 918, I don´t believe this time was set with a production spec car. Not even close.
My guess is they simply wanted and/or needed the PR, and cut a few corners to get there. 
I may be wrong, and in that case I can´t wait to see how this amazing new technology will change the game when it´s passed down to other cars in the future. 
Like some have already stated: we´ll see when a third party tests an actual client-ready GT-R.

IRL it doesn´t make one bit of difference to anyone buying an AMG GT (R or any other version).
It´s still an awesome car, and to the lucky few it will still be an amazing ride I am sure.
Which makes these "production car" tests seem like an even more moot idea in the first place.
 

There is another picture of those tires. They are shot Cup2s. They look slick because they're used up. They're just changing them with the tires you see wrapped behind them.
 

If i recall correctly, the 918 was driven HVS, not CH.  If that sachsenring lap time difference is anything to go by, then the 918 could possibly do better.

noone1:

There is another picture of those tires. They are shot Cup2s. They look slick because they're used up. They're just changing them with the tires you see wrapped behind them.
 

Might very well be the case. Impossible to tell from the screengrab - unless you have CSI equipment

kingjr9000:

If i recall correctly, the 918 was driven HVS, not CH.  If that sachsenring lap time difference is anything to go by, then the 918 could possibly do better.

Yup, it was Horst von Saurma back then.

The 918 is one of the hardest car one can ever driven to get the max out of it.

It is not a rear drive car, nor a conventional awd car, it doesn't;t behave like anything anyone has ever driven. The front drive system is disconnected and only driven part time by the computer. Unless someone has extensive track time in it, NO ONE in the whole world will ever trust what it can do. One can easily do a better time in a P1 within 30mins than they can in a 918. A P1 just behaved like a conventional rear drive car with too much power and too little tire, as simple as that.

Roughly speaking I did about 1000km on track with a 918, between mine and Porsche's. I still don't trust it. 

Whoopsy:

The 918 is one of the hardest car one can ever driven to get the max out of it.

It is not a rear drive car, nor a conventional awd car, it doesn't;t behave like anything anyone has ever driven. The front drive system is disconnected and only driven part time by the computer. Unless someone has extensive track time in it, NO ONE in the whole world will ever trust what it can do. One can easily do a better time in a P1 within 30mins than they can in a 918. A P1 just behaved like a conventional rear drive car with too much power and too little tire, as simple as that.

Roughly speaking I did about 1000km on track with a 918, between mine and Porsche's. I still don't trust it. 

 

Could there be a future recall on hybrid system / ecu software update ? since it left the factory and delivered to owners, all we know is that there are recalls and more recalls that aren't supposed to go out in public

I don't trust it from bumper to bumper

Porker:

RC:

So who is going to buy the first one here, so we can finally verify if this car merits all that praise? 

Do you reckon they will depreciate as much as the GT (S)? If so, better to wait a year to find out.  I would be interested for sure..

I certainly would love to see that happen but if Mercedes has no success with the GT R, they certainly won't make another one and this would be a pity. The GT R is one of these cars which can put more pressure on Porsche and a healthy competition never hurt. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Whoopsy:

The 918 is one of the hardest car one can ever driven to get the max out of it.

It is not a rear drive car, nor a conventional awd car, it doesn't;t behave like anything anyone has ever driven. The front drive system is disconnected and only driven part time by the computer. Unless someone has extensive track time in it, NO ONE in the whole world will ever trust what it can do. One can easily do a better time in a P1 within 30mins than they can in a 918. A P1 just behaved like a conventional rear drive car with too much power and too little tire, as simple as that.

Roughly speaking I did about 1000km on track with a 918, between mine and Porsche's. I still don't trust it. 

 

You just have too much respect for it but this is a good thing...it keeps you safe. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Any new insider info on this guy? Im getting bored again