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    Nov 11, 2005 2:29:19 AM

    harlandoc
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    trust me, do not buy a 997

    '06 997 S Cab.-4000 miles-roof still leaks, multiple squeaks despite multiple service visits, still have a grinding sound upon releasing clutch (of course, dealer says I'm not clutching properly despite my twenty years of manual transmission experience), DON'T DO IT! Save $20,000; go for BMW M5.

    Nov 11, 2005 2:40:09 AM

    mcdelaug
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    Reply to: harlandoc

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    Sorry you've had a bad experience, but the ratio of people that are happy with their cars to those that aren't must be 100 to 1 or higher...

    mcdelaug

    Nov 11, 2005 2:52:41 AM

    SrfCity
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    Reply to: mcdelaug

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    Yea, sorry you got a lemon. I recall about 2 other people on here that have had some serious problems with their cars since the launch. That's it. Since then they've quietly disappeared and you don't even hear from them now. Besides, no offense but your problems sound like irritants rather then major lemon stuff. Good luck with sorting it out.

    Nov 11, 2005 2:53:51 AM

    Stephenkng
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    Reply to: mcdelaug

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    It does not matter what kind of car you get. If you get a lamon, you get a lamon. Whether it is a P-car or BMW. Take it back to the dealer and complaint. That is what you need to do

    Nov 11, 2005 3:42:55 AM

    AS
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    Reply to: Stephenkng

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    go for lexus if you want a car w/out any squeaks & silky smooth transmission.

    Nov 11, 2005 3:59:58 AM

    jboyko
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    Reply to: SrfCity

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    Irritants? A leaking roof, and a grinding clutch after multiple visits. Surf, you're a Bung.

    jb

    Nov 11, 2005 4:04:46 AM

    Grant
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    Reply to: jboyko

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    Call your regional Porsche representative and demand a buy-back if you get no satisfaction from the dealer after a reasonable period.

    Nov 11, 2005 4:19:28 AM

    86BBUB
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    Reply to: AS

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    Quote:
    AS said:
    go for lexus if you want a car w/out any squeaks & silky smooth transmission.



    That's the classic response on german car boards but it is somewhat inappropriate. Porsches are no longer particularly well made. Neither are most other German cars today. You can't forgive them on the basis that they're exotics because they're not. Regular production cars whose value sinks like stones the minute they are off warranty. Ever wonder why? Porsche (and others) should spend less time stuffing our cars with technogarbageo that we don't want/need and concentrate on the basics. For those that care I own two "vintage" Porsches so I know the difference 1st hand. Nobody builds a more complete sports car though and that's why we continue to line up for a car that does not have the build of a 45,000k Lexus. All IMVHO.

    Nov 11, 2005 4:48:23 AM

    Jean
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    Reply to: AS

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    actually, as a german car owner (3 current), I was pleasantly surprised to find out how much effort Lexus made to achieve their rattle free status through engineering. Toyota plastic coated their sheet metal where any two metals meet. I know Porsche engineering is focused on something else but this is 21st century and we deserve some excellence on this front as well.

    Nov 11, 2005 4:53:13 AM

    MMD
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    Reply to: Jean

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    relax, have a drink. take a break. Don't look at the car for a whole week (or longer if winter is on it's way in NJ).

    Come back to it when you feel like it. Then, like a pitbull on a poodle, do whatever it takes to get satisfaction from warrenty coverage and then your chances are good that you won't have anymore problems.

    Nov 11, 2005 7:11:21 AM

    AS
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    i don't think it's quality of porsches hv gone down, but rather the quality of an average car (hence consumer expectation) that has gone up.

    lexus are engineered to be leak/squeak/rattle-free, just as porsches are engineered for performance. both are excellent products, each in their own respective terms.

    Nov 11, 2005 9:07:20 AM

    JimFlat6
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    Reply to: AS

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    If they could build rattle and squeak free 914's and 911's in the early 70's why cant they achieve that now? Lots of 90's 964's and 993's were very well built.

    Blame it on Toyota. Their consultants working for Porsche overhauled Porsche's manufacturing process and impacted the cars interior fastener materials and their assembly.

    If you take part a 996 or Boxster dashboard and compare how that is attached to a 993 and previous ones, you will see much cheaper fasteners used that are the same ones used in a KIA, Chevy, or Hyundai and also way fewer of those then the higher quality ones used in a 993 or 964.

    Porsche could easily upgrade the fasteners used for their insturment panels, door panels and trim. But they wont, its all about labor, parts costs and squeezing the last pfennig of profit out.

    Unfortunately, its the cheap charlie fasteners that are causing many customer complaints about rattles and squeaks.

    Nov 11, 2005 9:20:58 AM

    AS
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    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    i've not taken apart my car's interior, so can't comment on the fasteners.
    i do nevertheless get a buzzing sound fm passenger-side door storage compartment when stereo's on (as result of the bass). this is apparently caused by a small gap btw the plastic compartment & the door panel. annoying, but i'm sure dealer can easily fix this (with a little felt tape) next time i bring it in.

    Nov 11, 2005 10:02:10 AM

    throt
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    Reply to: AS

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    Quote:
    AS said:
    i've not taken apart my car's interior, so can't comment on the fasteners..




    Dont even go there on this one everyone , you would put it back together and find you have more thrigging rattles . Let the P dues sort it , specially under warranty terms . Its a shame cause this did have an impact on my cancellation and seems to haunt many . And "Toyota" , very soild builds of late..

    Good Luck..

    throt..

    Nov 11, 2005 10:05:26 AM

    throt
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Call your regional Porsche representative and demand a buy-back if you get no satisfaction from the dealer after a reasonable period.



    Bang on and I have said many times , its about how strong one is ..

    Persist..

    throt..

    Nov 11, 2005 10:46:04 AM

    John H Offline
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    Reply to: throt

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    As one who has recently returned to Porsche (997S) following 18 months of Lexus "excellence" in an SC430, I have the following comments:-

    Yes Lexus are well built, yes they are totally reliable, yes they are smooth and quiet, yes they have no rattles or creaks, yes the customer service is first-class, yes they are good value with most options as standard, yes their Mark Levinson sound system is the best available. BUT, and this is the big BUT - they are BLOODY BORING!!

    Placed alongside the driving thrill, exhaust note and handling of the 911, it is simply no contest. What we get in our cars is summed up in one word - 'character'

    IMVHO - John

    Nov 11, 2005 10:53:02 AM

    throt
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    Reply to: John H

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    Quote:
    John H said:


    Placed alongside the driving thrill, exhaust note and handling of the 911, it is simply no contest. What we get in our cars is summed up in one word - 'character'

    IMVHO - John



    This no compensation though for poor build quality issues , statement like this give P the large smile and thats probably why we are still talking about these irritating problems..

    Jmo..

    throt..

    Nov 11, 2005 11:41:51 AM

    John H Offline
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    Reply to: throt

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    Sorry Throt but I'll take irritations over boredom every time - not that I've had any so far apart from the odd rattle. Funny thing about P cars - I've had four previously, going back to the eighties - the rattles and groans seem to come and go almost with the weather! A bit like the human body!

    Nov 11, 2005 11:43:54 AM

    bstew
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    After owning a Lexus GX470 and having leaking oil from around the cylinder heads, having wiring issues, having rattles, etc. I am not a big fan of Lexus. My point is cars are made by man, they are not perfect (although we would like for them to be). If you have issues try to work with the dealer and if that doesn't work try to go the lemon route. PS. I have also had issues with other cars so this is not a slam on Lexus.

    Nov 11, 2005 11:56:49 AM

    dreamcar
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    Reply to: bstew

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    Quote:
    bstew said:
    I am not a big fan of Lexus. My point is cars are made by man, they are not perfect (although we would like for them to be).



    The Perfect Car would almost certainly be made by Lexus, or maybe Honda - but it would be very dull, don't you think
    I seem to remember Honda made the "perfect" sports car - the NSX, Honda technical expertise and reliability, as easy to drive and nearly as practical as a Civic, comparatively cheap to run, fettled by the legendary Ayrton Senna, great engine note, introduced when Honda had just won 5 F1 manufactuers championships on the run - and it was a sales flop.

    Nov 11, 2005 1:50:51 PM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: harlandoc

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    Quote:
    harlandoc said:
    '06 997 S Cab.-4000 miles-roof still leaks, multiple squeaks despite multiple service visits, still have a grinding sound upon releasing clutch (of course, dealer says I'm not clutching properly despite my twenty years of manual transmission experience), DON'T DO IT! Save $20,000; go for BMW M5.



    Go for BMW M5

    As if BMW where known for good quality... The 5 series in particular is known for tons of problems. Typical M5 problems are gear box, electronics, interior quality.

    Nov 11, 2005 1:55:54 PM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    If they could build rattle and squeak free 914's and 911's in the early 70's why cant they achieve that now? Lots of 90's 964's and 993's were very well built.




    That is indeed a question I asked myself again and again.

    On the other hand: Porsche is the only car I buy (and hold) although it does have squeaks and rattles. The qualities in all other areas (including mechanical build quality in all other aspects than interior) are so convincing that I have learned to accept the squeaks and rattles.

    Nov 11, 2005 2:20:19 PM

    AJVIP
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    harlandoc said:
    '06 997 S Cab.-4000 miles-roof still leaks, multiple squeaks despite multiple service visits, still have a grinding sound upon releasing clutch (of course, dealer says I'm not clutching properly despite my twenty years of manual transmission experience), DON'T DO IT! Save $20,000; go for BMW M5.



    Go for BMW M5

    As if BMW where known for good quality... The 5 series in particular is known for tons of problems. Typical M5 problems are gear box, electronics, interior quality.



    BMW M5

    Nov 11, 2005 2:37:37 PM

    RCA
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    Reply to: harlandoc

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    Quote:
    harlandoc said:
    '06 997 S Cab.-4000 miles-roof still leaks, multiple squeaks despite multiple service visits, still have a grinding sound upon releasing clutch (of course, dealer says I'm not clutching properly despite my twenty years of manual transmission experience), DON'T DO IT! Save $20,000; go for BMW M5.



    I'm not sure you got a lemon. The clutch noise (sort of whining) is well known, just have your dealer exchange the clutch on warranty, this doesn't have anything to do with proper clutch operation. Show your dealer my post.
    Regarding the leaking roof, your dealer should be able to fix it sooner or later. I wouldn't allow him more than two or maximum three tries to fix the roof.
    I'd say this is a dealer problem, not necessarily a manufacturer problem. There is no PERFECT product (maybe my wife's Boxster S, almost 5000 km now and not a single complaint) and little things can happen but the dealer shouldn't need an eternity to fix them. Sorry to hear that.

    BTW: I'm not quite sure how somebody buying a 997 Cab would buy a M5, totally different cars.

    I understand your frustration but like I said before, talk to your dealer. HE is the problem, not the car.

    Nov 11, 2005 2:39:42 PM

    edz
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    Reply to: AJVIP

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    I think this is your bad luck and it's unfair to generalize P-cars. You can talk almost anyone they will say something bad about any car, German, Italian, American....etc. My brother just bought one of the new BMW 7 series and it's been in the shop 3 times in one month for elctrical problems. But he still loves the car regardless. My experience with Porsches has been gr8 but personal preference is a hard top Porsches. I have had the latest Targa's and Cab's but they all had their squeaks and rattles after one year. When you buy a cab or Targa you are buying a car with a modified structure where part of the support has been removed. The vibrarions can no longer be transferred to the roof, like a hard top and therefore they are ditributed throughout the rest of body. Now I have never seen a P-car completely quiet. I have good ears for those things and even my friends that swear they have no squeaks, I get in their car and find something. Just the cold temperature alone makes a difference. As for the leaks I had a Turbo Cab that leaked here and there with only 2K on it and despite changing the seals I would still find a spot or two on the ground. It killed me but I loved the car. You can not compare Porsche's to BMW's, different animals all together. Porsche lovers love their cars no matter what, like parents that love their bad kids no matter what.

    Nov 11, 2005 2:42:24 PM

    easy_rider911
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    harlandoc said:
    '06 997 S Cab.-4000 miles-roof still leaks, multiple squeaks despite multiple service visits, still have a grinding sound upon releasing clutch (of course, dealer says I'm not clutching properly despite my twenty years of manual transmission experience), DON'T DO IT! Save $20,000; go for BMW M5.



    I'm not sure you got a lemon. The clutch noise (sort of whining) is well known, just have your dealer exchange the clutch on warranty, this doesn't have anything to do with proper clutch operation. Show your dealer my post.
    Regarding the leaking roof, your dealer should be able to fix it sooner or later. I wouldn't allow him more than two or maximum three tries to fix the roof.
    I'd say this is a dealer problem, not necessarily a manufacturer problem. There is no PERFECT product (maybe my wife's Boxster S, almost 5000 km now and not a single complaint) and little things can happen but the dealer shouldn't need an eternity to fix them. Sorry to hear that.

    BTW: I'm not quite sure how somebody buying a 997 Cab would buy a M5, totally different cars.

    I understand your frustration but like I said before, talk to your dealer. HE is the problem, not the car.



    RC, although there should not be, in practice is there any difference in quality between Zuffenhausen and the other Porsche factories? Your wife's 987S being a good example.

    Nov 11, 2005 3:08:33 PM

    RCA
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    RC, although there should not be, in practice is there any difference in quality between Zuffenhausen and the other Porsche factories? Your wife's 987S being a good example.



    Here are ALL problems I had with my three Porsches:

    987 S (4700 km, 4 months old): NOTHING.

    997 Carrera S (pre-launch car, 18000 km?, 17 months old): new clutch (whining noise, not broken), new gearbox (first gear didn't always pop in, not broken), leaking partially broken screw (engine area, loosing coolant) due to too tight fastening by the engine builder). Car driven very hard.

    Cayenne Turbo with retrofitted Powerkit (27000 km, 19 months): rear hatch window lock, broken micro switch (two times, rear hatch window popped out all the time), broken phone handpiece (electrical problem), new brake discs (standard Turbo brake, not Powerkit brake) at around 8000-9000 km (replaced on warranty due to cracks, etc., powerkit brake has proved to be MUCH MUCH better than the standard brake, no problems so far), "dead" PCM system (has been "revived" and re-initialised using the PST2, no problems anymore).

    None of the above cars ever let me down, I never had to drive home by taxi and never had the need for being towed.

    In my opinion, especially the Cayenne and the Boxster have been really very reliable cars, the 997 CS is a pre-launch car and like I mentioned, the changed clutch and gearbox were ONLY changed due to noise and weird first gear behaviour (Porsche wanted to have these parts to be able to analize them). Overall, I'm very happy with Porsche quality NOW, it has been different a few years ago (before my former 996 Turbo).

    Nov 11, 2005 3:10:18 PM

    SrfCity
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    Reply to: jboyko

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    Quote:
    jboyko said:
    Irritants? A leaking roof, and a grinding clutch after multiple visits. Surf, you're a Bung.

    jb



    OK, scratch that, one of the guys quietly disappeared

    Nov 11, 2005 3:23:40 PM

    cartouche
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    Reply to: harlandoc

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    Quote:
    harlandoc said:
    '06 997 S Cab.-4000 miles-roof still leaks, multiple squeaks despite multiple service visits, still have a grinding sound upon releasing clutch (of course, dealer says I'm not clutching properly despite my twenty years of manual transmission experience), DON'T DO IT! Save $20,000; go for BMW M5.


    SORRY BUDDY, BUT I DID IT !
    And that's what it makes to me :

    Nov 11, 2005 3:26:59 PM

    PS CA Offline
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    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: trust me, do not buy a 997

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    If they could build rattle and squeak free 914's and 911's in the early 70's why cant they achieve that now? Lots of 90's 964's and 993's were very well built.





    My own experience.....My 1995 993 coupe had far more rattles that either my 1999 996 cab or my current 2005 997S cab. So the 993 may have had better fasteners, but it didn't make mine rattle free. Not only did the dash make noise, but the back window always squeeked.

    Phil
     
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