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    Re: Full Audio update to my 997 with IPOD integration

    Quote:
    percymon said:
    Any mini system with the speakers placed correctly will sound more true to the original than the bose in the car.

    Bose is so artificial when you hear how the tunes are supposed to sound. Don't get me wrong, BOSE is impressive, just not accurate (or before i get flamed by the other audio buffs here BOSE is more coloured than other systems)



    My turn to get flamed - I actually like, and am impressed by, the sound of the Bose, but, as has been mentioned here, it is totally wasted when the car is on the move. The engine sounds MUCH better!

    Re: Bose or not to Bose

    Wow AI Design is awesome! Anyone know of a dealer in NC that does this type of work? I would like to have XM Radio added to my 997.

    Re: Bose or not to Bose

    Quote:
    AS said:
    i've got wilsons, krells & tubes in my living room. for 997, i hv stock audio & PSE!!

    imo, car audio will never come close to home audio so why bother with extra weight & all?! rather listen to the engine.



    You have Watt Puppies or Alexandrias? I'm surprised you chose Krell tubes over other amplification such as McIntosh, Mark Levinson or Classe Audio. I always found Krell sound to be a little on the dry side, although their product's finishes are beautiful. You are right, car audio will NEVER be as good as a dedicated home audiophile set-up but it can come close. It's especially rewarding when you're stuck in traffic.

    Re: Bose or not to Bose

    Quote:
    alexis said:
    ps castaneda..
    they are better speakers than dynaudio or focal.. the accuton and eton mounted in my eidolon diamond....
    ciao



    This point can be debated until we're all blue in the face but Dynaudio and JMFocal have built reputations of making the BEST speakers on the planet. These two companies make superb drivers. There are many speaker companies out there that take drivers from Dynaudio, it is what they're known for. I like my sound natural, without any colorations whatsoever - the source being reproduced exactly as intended. Frankly, Eton to me (both for their home and car lines) look and sound like B&W 600-series loudspeakers which is all right, but not impressive. An above average mid-range, flat low-end, and messy highs. Drivers look pretty cool though. The Utopia Beryllium drivers from Focal are the finest speakers I have heard in a vehicle (assuming it is properly set-up with correct components -- Alpine F1 or McIntosh amplification seems to work best, even better than JL Audio). Dynaudio comes close, but I prefer the high-end look of the Utopias.

    If this was a comparison of home speakers, Eton wouldn't even be in the same league as Dynaudio Evidence or JM Focal Utopia speakers. The only other speaker that could probably come close in terms of tone neutrality and authentic reproduction would be Wilson Audio speakers - e.g. Alexandria.

    However, we are talking about car audio where the huge gap in performance isn't as noticeable.

    Re: Full Audio update to my 997 with IPOD integration

    Quote:
    dreamcar said:
    Quote:
    percymon said:
    Any mini system with the speakers placed correctly will sound more true to the original than the bose in the car.

    Bose is so artificial when you hear how the tunes are supposed to sound. Don't get me wrong, BOSE is impressive, just not accurate (or before i get flamed by the other audio buffs here BOSE is more coloured than other systems)



    My turn to get flamed - I actually like, and am impressed by, the sound of the Bose, but, as has been mentioned here, it is totally wasted when the car is on the move. The engine sounds MUCH better!



    Dreamcar, you may also want to check www.reusaudio.com They make great products as well. Additionally, they can send their mechanics and engineers to your location (you pay for airfare and hotel stay) to modify your vehicle with their audio systems. Believe it or not, this costs less than going with an Alpine F1 --- Dynaudio/Focal set up.

    Depends on your budget. If sound doesn't matter much to you, just keep revving to red-line, that's better than any sound system.

    Re: Full Audio update to my 997 with IPOD integration

    Thanks for that - I can always do the economy option - just listen to my favourite music in the car in the garage Seriously here in the UK we have Linn which are rumoured to be pretty good for home hifi But I don't want speakers like filing cabinets Sorry for going a bit off topic, here guys.

    Re: Full Audio update to my 997 with IPOD integration

    Quote:
    dreamcar said:
    Thanks for that - I can always do the economy option - just listen to my favourite music in the car in the garage Seriously here in the UK we have Linn which are rumoured to be pretty good for home hifi But I don't want speakers like filing cabinets Sorry for going a bit off topic, here guys.



    Linn is great as well --- unfortunately the only car co. that has Linn installations would be Aston Martin...

    Re: Full Audio update to my 997 with IPOD integration

    Quote:
    ajcastaneda said:
    Linn is great as well --- unfortunately the only car co. that has Linn installations would be Aston Martin...



    And the DB9 V12 sounds even better than the "humble" flat 6 in my 987 S - so I wouldn't listen to a sound system in a DB9 on the move, either!

    Re: Full Audio update to my 997 with IPOD integration

    A side question: If one were intending to upgrade the factory system and wanted to keep the factory head unit to mimize intrusion into body panels (i.e., prevent some pimply faced high school dropout from wrecking your interior) is it better to go with Bose or standard?

    Re: Full Audio update to my 997 with IPOD integration

    Quote:
    frayed said:
    A side question: If one were intending to upgrade the factory system and wanted to keep the factory head unit to mimize intrusion into body panels (i.e., prevent some pimply faced high school dropout from wrecking your interior) is it better to go with Bose or standard?



    With the MOST bus etc etc I wouldn't be brave enough to mess with it.

    Re: Full Audio update to my 997 with IPOD integration

    say you really wanted a 12" sub in your car.

    where would you fit it? (997 or 987)

    Re: Bose or not to Bose

    Dare I post in this thread?

    I guess I consider myself somewhat of an Audiophile with Theta Digital front end, Ayre pre-amp and amplifier and ProAc speakers (those great British speakers) in my living room. I have a Linn Classik and ProAc bookshelves in my office. The living room system probably set me back close to $35,000 including cables. And I'm even considering replacing the Theta gear with a $20,000 Linn Sondek CD player.

    My feeling on cars has always been that they're not a very good place to listen to music, what with all the engine, wind and tire noise and the small cabins which create endless interfearance patterns and limit bass reproduction. So I'm not about to spend the kind of money I spent in my large pleasnat sounding living room on a car stereo for my PSE equipped 997.

    After having the non-bose system in my 996 break several times I finally had it replaced with an aftermarket system (Eclipse, X-tant, Canton). That aftermarket system cost me about $4,000 and frankly it didn't sound that great. This is not to mention what the installers did to my tint. So when I ordered my 997S I went with the Bose just hoping it wouldn't break.

    Well, I have been pleasnatly surprised by the sound quality of the Bose in the 997. Given that I'm such an audio snob in the living room I have to say that the Bose (in non-surround mode and bass at -1) does not offend me in the least. I might even go so far as to say it sounds pretty good for a car stereo. So I would definately get it again.

    I guess I like to take the car to the symphony not the symphony to the car.

    Hope that helps.

    Cheers.

    Re: Bose or not to Bose

    The Bose system in the current 987 and 997 is by far the finest OEM system Porsche has ever put into their vehicles. It is a HUGE improvement over the 986/996. I think you can see a recurring theme here though - a car can never match the quality of a dedicated listening environment in the home due to the environment that a car system operates in as compared to a home system.

    To respond to your question Frayed, it will be tough to use the existing head unit unless you use a FM-modulated signal (which is a significant degradation in sound quality). Reus Audio modifies amplification, crossovers and speaker drivers which doesn't involve as much as work when compared to replacing the entire system. If you were to go with an Alpine F1 set-up, that is what has to be done. The headunit must be removed, and substituted with an Alpine motorized screen...and it goes on and on. It basically involves putting a whole new sound system in. The MOST bus makes it difficult to modify anything, which has long been the case on Mercedes vehicles. Luckily for us Porsche drivers, we have a wonderful engine to listen to instead.

    To be honest, I was considering putting a sweet aftermarket set-up as I described in previous posts. But after listening to the engine, I decided that the money is better spent elsewhere. I suppose my priorities are changing.... so I'm spending that money on my home equipment instead.

    Re: Bose or not to Bose

    puppies with balanced audio tech (tubes). krell's the playback unit. purist dominus (wiring) throughout. wilson's are actually a bit dry/detailed (hence tubes to warm 'em up).

    car audio can be extremely detailed, but will never hv depth, &/or give a holographic soundstage, etc. (one's essentially surrounded by speakers).

    Re: Bose or not to Bose

    It all depends on your preferences. Are you really an audio phile? I find myself many times turning my radio off - not because I don't like the sound, but because I love the engine and exhaust note and I don't even have pse! If I want good sound and a relaxing ride while I drive, I get in my Lexus. If I drive my porsche I am expecting a different experience. Unless the acoustics are altered in the car I don't see the point of spending a ton of money on audio that can't truly be appreciated. The porsche is meant to be driven and listening to music in the car is an afterthought not the primary reason to drive the car.

    JMHO

    Re: Bose or not to Bose

    Quote:
    pic911s said:
    It all depends on your preferences. Are you really an audio phile? I find myself many times turning my radio off - not because I don't like the sound, but because I love the engine and exhaust note and I don't even have pse! If I want good sound and a relaxing ride while I drive, I get in my Lexus. If I drive my porsche I am expecting a different experience. Unless the acoustics are altered in the car I don't see the point of spending a ton of money on audio that can't truly be appreciated. The porsche is meant to be driven and listening to music in the car is an afterthought not the primary reason to drive the car.

    JMHO



    A very good opinion at that

    Re: Bose or not to Bose

    Quote:
    ajcastaneda said:
    Depends how much you want to spend and how you want to set your car apart without it looking "ghetto-install". If you really have the money, and I mean really (20%-30% of your car's MSRP) - go with a custom made Alpine F1 Status install with Focal Utopia Be or Dynaudio Speakers (Esotar tweeters). You can choose integrated touch screens, motorized or non-motorized (I would go non motorized for an OEM look), and custom subwoofer enclosures designed to fit the cabin. You can even put two screens in the center stack while moving the climate controls to accomodate this. One screen for DVD (Alpine F1 unit does DVD-Audio too, and decodes Dolby 5.1, DTS, and all accompanying processing modes) and one for Navi.



    Alternatively, you could accept that the interior background noise of your 997 is around 85 dBA and just get the Bose for easier resale and a bit better sound for not a lot of money.

    The Bose is easily bettered by after market systems, but unless you are going to sit listening to your Cd's on the driveway with the engine turned off you might as well just go for the Bose compromise

    Re: Bose or not to Bose

    Quote:
    ElTonioni said:
    Quote:
    ajcastaneda said:
    Depends how much you want to spend and how you want to set your car apart without it looking "ghetto-install". If you really have the money, and I mean really (20%-30% of your car's MSRP) - go with a custom made Alpine F1 Status install with Focal Utopia Be or Dynaudio Speakers (Esotar tweeters). You can choose integrated touch screens, motorized or non-motorized (I would go non motorized for an OEM look), and custom subwoofer enclosures designed to fit the cabin. You can even put two screens in the center stack while moving the climate controls to accomodate this. One screen for DVD (Alpine F1 unit does DVD-Audio too, and decodes Dolby 5.1, DTS, and all accompanying processing modes) and one for Navi.



    Alternatively, you could accept that the interior background noise of your 997 is around 85 dBA and just get the Bose for easier resale and a bit better sound for not a lot of money.

    The Bose is easily bettered by after market systems, but unless you are going to sit listening to your Cd's on the driveway with the engine turned off you might as well just go for the Bose compromise



    True, which is what I discovered when I took delivery of my vehicle - it's no Lexus in terms of road noise. And I wouldn't have it any other way.

    Re: Bose or not to Bose

    The only part of my Lexus SC430 I would have moved to my 997S is the Mark Levinson system - it was superb. Then again, I could hardly hear the V8 in the Lexus and it's drive-ability was dreadful, which is why I went back to Porsche when the 997 arrived.

    Having test-driven 997S's with both standard & Bose systems there is no doubt that Bose is much better. Better again if Surround is turned off and Bass set at -1, with fader a few notches to the rear. Have to agree the sound of the car far outweighs any available audio system. Why does 'The Stig' always have headphones on when driving?

    Re: Bose or not to Bose

    I have the stock system on my 997. Supposed they are considered to be similar to the upgraded system in the 996. I heard the Bose system for a short period and really wasn't too impressed. Bass actually sounded boomy. I went with a car that had all the options that I wanted but it didn't have Bose. I have to say that I don't regret it. The standard system is actually adequate; it is better than the bose in my Audi. I'd have to say that money is better spent on PSE. Too bad that my Canadian dealer still says that PSE is only available for the S.

    Unfortuantely, the fact that Bose is successful is a triumph of marketing over substance. Comparatively, Bose systems are not cheap; one can easily find other musically satisfying systems for the same price.

    I have Wilson Watt Puppy 7, ML amps and Krell SACD. Between it's the Sophia's that cost 11k and the Watt Puppies are double that.

    Re: Bose or not to Bose

    Quote:
    pfslai said: The standard system is actually adequate; it is better than the bose in my Audi. I'd have to say that money is better spent on PSE. Too bad that my Canadian dealer still says that PSE is only available for the S.



    Getting a little off topic, but my dealer has a standard Carrera (non-S) with sport exhaust. Check it out: http://south-centre.porschedealer.com/new_cars/info.php?inventoryid=182281

    Re: Bose or not to Bose

    Maybe it's me; I have the upgraded Bose in my 997S but I am not that impressed. The base so too high no matter how you adjust it. Bose stereos do break down a lot, I have had them 3 times including my 06 997S, the CD player was not working one week after I bought it

    Re: Bose or not to Bose

    Quote:
    edz61 said:
    Maybe it's me; I have the upgraded Bose in my 997S but I am not that impressed. The base so too high no matter how you adjust it. Bose stereos do break down a lot, I have had them 3 times including my 06 997S, the CD player was not working one week after I bought it



    If you compare it to other high end stereo it really is not that good. But comparing it to the stock stereo it is better. You are right about the bass. Maybe an amp would make it sound better.

    Re: Bose or not to Bose

    Chili: You are right it's much better than stock stereos, the bass can be annoying though. In my car the entire door panel is speakers. With some CD's it sounds good and with some not good at all. Then again the sound of that engine is the gr8test music there is

    Re: Bose or not to Bose

    I love the sound specially when you first start the car.

    Re: Bose or not to Bose

    Here is what I did on my system. I WAS NOT HAPPY WITH THE BOSE UPGRADE I also wanted the best way to integrate an IPOD into the existing PCM system.

    PCM incorporates the radio and CD whilst also controlling the audio and trip computer, it also controls the sports chrono functions, as well as it has separate control buttons for the rear spoiler, heated screen etc and also the controls for the climate control/air-conditioning. Based on all that there is no way to upgrade to a new head unit. So INTEGRATION is the way you have to go. Now there is a number of companies that are working on hacking the MOST bus. Hacking the MOST bus would allow you to hook the IPOD directly into the bus and in theory have the IPOD display on PCM. Then again there lots of controls on the MOST bus and I think you may have warranty and safety issues if you hack into it. So here is what the team who worked on my car did. We left the factory head unit in place as well as the factory amp. We first put in an Audio Control LC8 to take the speaker level output from the factor amp and turn them into line level outputs. http://www.mobileaudiocontrol.com/


    The dynamic range of this head unit is severely restricted to deal with the quality of the Upgraded but poor Bose speakers in the system and incorporate non-defeatable equalization curves aimed at correcting the response of those speakers, as well as protecting the relatively weak Bose upgraded speaker systems from overload. Examples of these include bass roll-off at increasing volume settings, or severe midrange EQ to tame the response of OEM speakers. Since we ended up replacing those speakers I needed to bring the full dynamic range back . To do this we now took the output from the Audio Control LC8 and we used a new unit from JLAudio called a cleansweep http://www.jlaudio.com/press/CleanSweep05.html it returns the full dynamic range to any head unit and gives you a clean signal to put into your amplifier. This unit happens to have an auxiliary input.
    We used this input to handle the IPOD. So now you have a full dynamic range output for both PCM and IPOD. To switch between PCM and the IPOD there are two knobs that we put in the cubby near the stick shift boot.



    The first one is a volume control and push switch between the PCM and the IPOD. The second one controls the volume of the sub.

    We then added an additional 5 channel amplifier from JLaudio in the bottom of the trunk area that gives you a 250 Watt Sub Channel plus a 100 watts a channel on the front two speakers and 25 watts a channel on the rear two speakers.
    the sub box with 4 downward firing focal 6 in subs now has tons of base complete IPOD integration and sounds awesome.



    If anyone wants to know more you can send me a private email.

    Re: Bose or not to Bose

    Sounds and looks complicated.... I'm assuming you are happy with the results?

    Re: Bose or not to Bose

    yes I love it, it rocks. The only issue I have really is when my Turbo comes weather I take it all out and if it will fit in the turbo or not, or just sell it for a loss and start over on the turbo. I tried to move a system between a 2000 C2 and a 2001 Turbo and the back rear deck was completely differnt so we had to redo the sub deisgn. This is better than my home system. Its wonderful. We also integrated Bluetooth into the factory headunit if anyone wants to what we did there.

    I noticed that my cleansweep url was bad, You can check it out at http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_cleansweep_pages.php?page_id=79

    Re: Bose or not to Bose

    The CD player not working is actually on a bose issue. The PCM unit ate my CD on my first day. I just wanted to know what I paid pre-delivery inspection for! I also knew a another person with the same issue with the CD player.

    The vibration from certain bass frequencies also have to do with the reinforcement of the door unit. In a sense the door becomes a speaker enclosure. Also some wires were rattling on the side airbags on my door panels on some notes. The dealer put in some foam and padding and this solved the problem.

    Re: Bose or not to Bose

    Quote:
    MIA911 said:
    Trying to determine if I need bose on the 997. I had it on my old 996 and thought it was better than the standard system. But I am unsure on the 997. I have yet to hear a standard system yet..Any thoughts.



    I have posted a quite long thread on my audio mods if you are intersted

    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat...true#Post188249

     
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