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    Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    I am awaiting my July CabS delivery and when I was at the dealership I was discussing various issues with the service manager. He had been at porsche for over 20 years and has been involved on porsche racing teams. He suggests not to drive easy during the first 2,000 miles as suggested. Instead he suggests to drive it like you would normally drive it and not baby the engine. The more you push the engine early the better it will respond and the more race like it will be later. He sites better piston travel, better seating of the rings, valves and camshaft. He also notes the car has memory and if you drive it hard early it will remember. The guys that have done this early have more responsive engines and he can tell there is a big difference in power. He also noted that they never break in race cars. The cars are ran a few miles first and then they change the oil and then drop the hammer. His only "don'ts" were to not pass the redline and not to drive at the same speed for long periods of time, Since this goes against A.G. recommendations and is a bit counterintuitive I wonder what you guys think.

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    I am almost sure that the elctronics can record rev highs and lows. This being the case if you over abuse the engine before the run in period your warranty may be void.

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    Just make up your own break in rule: no more than 5500 rpms.

    The other stuff he said sounds good. The first 200 miles are "critical" for seating the piston rings.

    Oh, make sure you shift gears alot even when you're just cruising on the highway.

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    Quote:
    kevinm said:
    I am awaiting my July CabS delivery and when I was at the dealership I was discussing various issues with the service manager. He had been at porsche for over 20 years and has been involved on porsche racing teams. He suggests not to drive easy during the first 2,000 miles as suggested. Instead he suggests to drive it like you would normally drive it and not baby the engine. The more you push the engine early the better it will respond and the more race like it will be later. He sites better piston travel, better seating of the rings, valves and camshaft. He also notes the car has memory and if you drive it hard early it will remember. The guys that have done this early have more responsive engines and he can tell there is a big difference in power. He also noted that they never break in race cars. The cars are ran a few miles first and then they change the oil and then drop the hammer. His only "don'ts" were to not pass the redline and not to drive at the same speed for long periods of time, Since this goes against A.G. recommendations and is a bit counterintuitive I wonder what you guys think.



    Kevinm,

    This is precisely what my dealer's mechanic said about breaking in my 2005 TSCab I bought a few weeks ago. Last week, I also asked him about changing the oil and filter near or at the end of the break-in, as well, and he actually said I was "wasting" money doing that. He claimed that all "modern" engines (including mine) are specially "coated" on the articulating metal components, so that metal "filings" and other contaminants to the oil don't routinely accumulate, thus, except for adding oil as it runs down, no oil (and filter) "change" is necessary. He said to stick to the maintenance schedule of oil/filter change every 2 years/15,000 miles, or, if desired, once a year (again, with adding of oil if low).

    His claim re. engine break-in was that, except for the rings "setting," there is no rationale for "babying" the engine, and in fact he emphasized that by not driving the engine at high revs early on, it won't run as smoothly at high revs later on. I'm at about 1,400 miles with mine, I just added about a quart of Mobil One API-SH/SJ and viscosity grade SAE 0 W-40 oil last night (based on measured oil level check), and I've been driving it up to rpm's of 6,000 (briefly), with NO red-lining, and most revs before gear-change are between 4,000-6,000 rpm's. Boy does it sound awesome when the blowers kick in and the whiplash hits at about 3,500 rpm's. In other words, I'm doing a compromise break-in, pushing it harder than "official" PAG rec's. (<4,200 rpm's for 2,000 miles), but not maxing to the redline (about 6,750 rpm's for the TScab).

    My intuition from hearing and reading much contradictory info. is that the best approach for breaking in a modern engine is moderation-don't drive the car like it's a "Model-T," but don't drive it like a rental car either!

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Just make up your own break in rule: no more than 5500 rpms.

    The other stuff he said sounds good. The first 200 miles are "critical" for seating the piston rings.

    Oh, make sure you shift gears alot even when you're just cruising on the highway.



    This is a good summary of what I've been doing: My first 200 miles were more mellow than the last 1,200 miles.

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    If the car is going to be your pride and joy it wouldn't hurt to take it easy for the first while. An oil change after a few thousand miles or so probably makes sense too.

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    I didn't know Cabs had racing engines in it. I mean your basing your mechanics recommendations on racing engines right? And racing engines don't need to go 100,000 miles do they? Why would Porsche put something in the manual that would hurt your engine? I say follow the manual, because Porsche wrote it, you know, they guys that designed, tested and built your car.

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    Quote:
    Texas911 said:
    I didn't know Cabs had racing engines in it. I mean your basing your mechanics recommendations on racing engines right? And racing engines don't need to go 100,000 miles do they? Why would Porsche put something in the manual that would hurt your engine? I say follow the manual, because Porsche wrote it, you know, they guys that designed, tested and built your car.



    Yup! Talk to teams running Porsche Carrera Cup racing cars and they'll tell you that their engines are overhauled after around 30 hours running time. Even at track speeds, 30h do not equate to 100,000 miles. Formula 1 fans will know that F1 engines have a much shorter life, and I don't just mean the Mercedes engines in Raikkonen's car. That kind of durabilíty is not a priority for competition cars.

    I'll accept that a car will "loosen up" sooner if you drive it like you stole it from day one. But the idea of breaking in a car is to prevent the loosening up process from going too far too fast.

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    I'll just ask what i'm always asking in threads like these:
    What about the other 131900 components of a car besides the piston rings?

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    Thanx Al Pattee I appreicate your imput I think I will do a similar break in program. Shift change in the 4000 to 6000 range and perhaps a little easier during the first 200 miles.

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    Good point about racing engines. I guess the real question is what is the best why to break in the engine for optimal performance and durability? Perhaps driving it like you stole it will shorten the life span but will babying the engine make it purr more like a kitten and less like a lion?

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    I think there's a misunderstanding about piston rings in the first 200 miles.

    Maybe someone could clear this up.

    I believe the rings should be given a bit of a work out during that period.

    I seem to remember this means LOTS of RPM changes(i.e. lots of shifting) for 8 thru 200 miles.

    I'm not sure if you should drive a little bit easier during the first 200 miles, either. Should drive somewhat hard without exceeding 4000 RPM for 8-200 (two hundred) miles.

    Ugh, I read and understood this (p.ring seating) a few years ago and now I forgot.

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    Hi Kevin,

    A few thoughts about your question:

    1-This is one of those issues that everyone has an opinion about, and it isn't perfectly clear who's right.
    2-This question gets asked on rennteam every few weeks, and it provokes the same spectrum of responses. The most conservative posters say "follow the manual and do an early oil change" while the most aggressive say "drive it hard early, that's what it's designed for."
    3-Who really knows what the truth is? I don't. But I will say this- Porsche's recommendation for break in is undoubtedly designed to minimize the number of warranty claims you will make. But it may put little emphasis on your engine reaching 100% of its potential.

    Soooooo, if you, like Porsche, want a car that is least likely to require warranty service, follow the break in procedure in the manual. If you think this is somehow incompatible with the engine reaching its full power potential (I am not 100% sure I believe this, although I admit it is possible), then you will have to pick some other break in procedure. But what objective evidence is there that one of these more aggressive break-ins provides more power? Maybe a few anecdotes from mechanics and owners, but no real objective testing has been done as far as I know.

    One last thing. In practical terms I think you will find it nearly impossible not to rev above 4200 for an entire 2000 miles. The sounds these cars make is addicting. So a lot of this argument will be academic.

    Enjoy your new car!

    mcdelaug

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    Good points Mcdelaug. When I first go involved with fast cars a long time ago, I too heard folks say, "Break it in hard and it will run hard" but I've never seen any evidence one way or the other.

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    Quote:
    mcdelaug said:
    Porsche's recommendation for break in is undoubtedly designed to minimize the number of warranty claims you will make. But it may put little emphasis on your engine reaching 100% of its potential.

    mcdelaug



    Well said mcdelaug. I'll drink to that!

    Now if we could only summarize exactly and correctly what we have to do to get our cars to eventually dyno their advertised HP.

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    Newcomer to your forum, but I am an engineer and I have experience in preparing racing engines.

    My thoughts:

    1) Racing engine (and ALL drivetrain components) are machined to much larger clearances to minimize friction and maximize horsepower for short term service life. This is why they have a minimal break-in period. If your car was delivered with racing car engine clearances, you would definitely be complaining about your oil consumption and short service life. (As an aside, one engine that I am familiar with would produce approx 30 more horsepower just due to racing clearances resulting in less bearing friction between crank-piston and crank-block at high rpms)

    2) Passenger engine/drivetrain clearances are machined to tight tolerances for maximun service life. Since tolerances means that each component is slightly different in dimension, then in some areas of the passenger engine one would reasonably expect a tight fit, which means additional friction, heat and possibly overheating if the components are stressed (high rpm or large torque load) during early life of vehicle.

    3) It is to all auto manufacturers' benefit to state it like it is as they want the best reputation on their product's reliability and of course, minimum warranty claims.

    Sorry if I sound like a statesman for auto industry, just trying to help out here. It is interesting, I have seen similar threads in other vehicle forums:-)

    Best regards,
    grease

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    Following the book is a good thing right? so why bother exploring other things that are not proven to be as effective or efficient as the book? what do we really have to loose if we are following the book the first 2000 miles? boredom? a sad 997S taking it easy for a while?

    If the books info is somehow related to having lesser warranty claims thats GREAT i dont have to go to the dealers and leave my car there overnight or longer...






    I'm SOOOO Glad I'm out of break-in miles

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    Full potential? Ask Mazda about that, if a manufactuere claims a certain horse power and it falls short, they'd be in trouble. So I seriously doubt that Porsche is making us break in the 911 at the detriment of full horse power potential. Unless there is hidden horsepower somewhere that is magically unlocked by doing a hard breakin. Which I also doubt.

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    Grease,

    Good stuff. The detailed discussion I had with my dealer's mechanic touched on that issue of "clearances" (I believe he used the term "fittings"). His recommendation was to rev the car to below redline (in my case, a 996TSCab with redline around 6,750), so to 6,000, but not by stomping on the throttle, rather more evenly, depending on gear and speed. He tried to emphasize that by driving my car always below 4,200 rpm's, that if I suddenly started flooring it to redline after the 2,000-mile moratorium, that all the articulating components would not be used to the forces generated at those higher rpm's. So by gradually and briefly revving the car up to below redline, he claimed I would more safely be able to drive the car harder after break-in. In other words, it's better to drive the car through the rev-range methodically, rather than keeping it rigidly below 4,200 rpm's to 2,000 miles, then suddenly pushing it to its limits thereafter. Have you heard this before, i.e., that the higher rpm's and higher torque loads are better tolerated after beak-in when introduced briefly during break-in?

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    Quote:
    kevinm said:
    I am awaiting my July CabS delivery and when I was at the dealership I was discussing various issues with the service manager. He had been at porsche for over 20 years and has been involved on porsche racing teams. He suggests not to drive easy during the first 2,000 miles as suggested. Instead he suggests to drive it like you would normally drive it and not baby the engine. The more you push the engine early the better it will respond and the more race like it will be later. He sites better piston travel, better seating of the rings, valves and camshaft. He also notes the car has memory and if you drive it hard early it will remember. The guys that have done this early have more responsive engines and he can tell there is a big difference in power. He also noted that they never break in race cars. The cars are ran a few miles first and then they change the oil and then drop the hammer. His only "don'ts" were to not pass the redline and not to drive at the same speed for long periods of time, Since this goes against A.G. recommendations and is a bit counterintuitive I wonder what you guys think.



    sigh... another 'know-it-all' porsche employee that thinks their word is better than the publications from Stuttgart.

    keep in mind, americans love to embelish their job descriptions. people that mow my lawn call themselves environmental aesthetic engineers.

    that he was ' involved in racing for 20 years ' could just mean he printed fliers for their keg parties or did some oil changes for the race director's car.

    why do these discussions keep popping up for the proper way to do something that is clearly specified in the manual.

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    Mcdelaug, Grease and the rest thanx for your imput you guys are awesome. I know this issue is talked about alot but the enthusiasm for theses cars is well shared. I suppose once one gets to drive the car, a lot of the stuff we worry about is acedemic-but is sure is fun

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    You don't need to break in the motor. Watch the hard braking and enjoy.

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    Quote:
    Moogle said:
    Quote:
    kevinm said:
    I am awaiting my July CabS delivery and when I was at the dealership I was discussing various issues with the service manager. He had been at porsche for over 20 years and has been involved on porsche racing teams. He suggests not to drive easy during the first 2,000 miles as suggested. Instead he suggests to drive it like you would normally drive it and not baby the engine. The more you push the engine early the better it will respond and the more race like it will be later. He sites better piston travel, better seating of the rings, valves and camshaft. He also notes the car has memory and if you drive it hard early it will remember. The guys that have done this early have more responsive engines and he can tell there is a big difference in power. He also noted that they never break in race cars. The cars are ran a few miles first and then they change the oil and then drop the hammer. His only "don'ts" were to not pass the redline and not to drive at the same speed for long periods of time, Since this goes against A.G. recommendations and is a bit counterintuitive I wonder what you guys think.



    sigh... another 'know-it-all' porsche employee that thinks their word is better than the publications from Stuttgart.

    keep in mind, americans love to embelish their job descriptions. people that mow my lawn call themselves environmental aesthetic engineers.

    that he was ' involved in racing for 20 years ' could just mean he printed fliers for their keg parties or did some oil changes for the race director's car.

    why do these discussions keep popping up for the proper way to do something that is clearly specified in the manual.




    My dealership's master-tech of over 30 years experience also told me to not kill it, but that there's no need to follow the break-in period religiously. He says that what the "suits" in offices choose to print in the manual as scare tactics to hopefully discourage OVERT abuse in the early miles is total INTENTIONAL overkill, and that the Porsche factory engineers who actually run the tech schools laugh about it.

    In short, he said don't kill it, don't be an [censored], but don't let the bean-counters ruin your first 2,000 miles, and he concurred that an occassional run to redline throughout breakin would be advisable, in his opinion.

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:

    EDITED------------
    In short, he said don't kill it, don't be an [censored], but don't let the bean-counters ruin your first 2,000 miles, and he concurred that an occassional run to redline throughout breakin would be advisable, in his opinion.



    Thanks yet again for the info 69Boss9.

    Any thoughts about the first 200 miles and the piston ring seating issue (or non-issue)?

    IOW, is there something we should do a bit differently during this 8-200 mile stage?

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    I was fairly easy-going in the 1st 200 miles, just to give EVERYTHING a chance to find its wear pattern and for enough heat cycles to cure it all well. I just drove normal, didn't do any brutal 0-140 mph space shuttle launches, and shifted gears a ton to vary rpm's, to loosen up the shifter a bit, and just having fun with the flexibility of the powertrain. I didn't pay alot of attention to the tach, as it's just overly paranoid to think that an occassional swing past 4,000 rpm is going to be detrimental to long-term service.

    The factory break-in routine certainly has some validity to it, taken in reasonable and non-fanatical context, but people get too wrapped up in it as being a "do or die" thing. Folks. If it were do or die, it would be PRINTED ON THE COVER OF THE MANUAL, or Porsche would program the ECM to rev-limit you to a prescribed "safe" rpm, and it would not allow you to rev higher until the odometer clicked to 2,000. If it were so critical, Porsche would never leave it up to the customer to see that its done, not when their reputation for durability is on the line. As it is, they probably assume that 50% of their new buyers don't even read the break-in procedure.

    It's a fear of the unknown that causes people to be so anal about this subject. Most folks look at an engine an intimidating piece of mysterious technology. It's that scary hot loud thing with parts flying around real fast that you pour oil in. Engineers see it as meterials, properties, tolerances, and stresses. The Porsche flat-six is overbuilt compared to most standards, and just because they encourage you to take a chill pill for the first few months of ownership (for mostly their own self-serving reasons), having fun and swinging up to 6,000 grand here and there is hardly asking anything of the strong and well-machined internals. To suggest that if you don't follow the break-in to the letter, you'll pay down the road, is like saying "don't swim for 30 minutes on a full stomach, YOU'LL DROWN!!!". Well, its not an absolute. Last I checked, Porsche dealer demonstrater cars are sold with a full warranty. Why would Porsche, with any ethics, sell an "abused" car that saw zero adherance to any break-in method to the helpless public? With a full intact warranty?? Would they not, in good conscience, replace the motor prior to selling it? After all, it will NEVER last, right?? And when's the last time you saw a post here saying "Well, my motor's blown at 40K, that's what I get for buying a demo", or, "I'm burning oil like a taxicab!!! What was I thinking, buying that demo??". Sticking properly to your recommended service intervals is the most important thing you can do, far more important than overzealous adherance to break-in methods. I'm not saying "forget the break-in". I'm just saying, "uhhh-huh-he-he-uhhhh sssettle down Beavis!!"

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    I agree completely. I think somewhere between the two extremes (Hammer it hard out of the box, ignoring the break-in advice, and following the advice to the letter) is about right.

    However, one think that I don't think anyone's covered is that it's NICE to observe some sort of break in period, nice to have something to look forward too, just like it's nice to wait for delivery after agonising after your spec.
    It's nice to look forward to the day where you can officially take it to the limit, and when that day comes, to take time to enjoy it.

    Or I think so, anyway!

    (I think I started to occasionally edge over 5k towards the last 500 miles of break in, and over 4k from about 600. You'd have to be a saint not to!)

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    The guys writing the break-in procedure are well-aware of human nature. They know that if they say "2,000 miles", they'll be lucky if half the people who even read the procedure make it to 1,000. They know if they say "4,000 rpm", they'll be lucky if half the people stay under 5,000. It's human nature. Break-in recommendations are just "recommendations", and they are written on the safe side such that they may hedge their bets against normal human nature, and balance against the abusive lunatic fringe. Their goal is for the largest possible majority of the vehicles be treated gently out-of-box, and the recommendation is aimed at optimizing the results. I don't think they delude themselves into believing that even a third of new owners are going to follow the recommendation to the LETTER, like a zombie-eyed formation of Jim Jones' Guyana cultists.

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    It's funny. The manual also mentions to avoid cold starts and short trips (ie: not letting the oil come to normal operating temp). And yet, most cars come with 7-50 miles on the clock. There are a lot of short drives during this period - a clear violation of the holy manual.

    And, god forbid, if you don't order the car and instead buy off the lot, your car has gone on several test drives, and we know all prospective buyers respect the break in rules!

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    So in that train of thought, if it specs out that we don't need to change the coolant every x number of miles, then we should just double it? And if it calls for an oil change at say 7500, just ignore it and go 15,000 miles? The wierd thing about all this is that its all heresay and conjecture. But in the manual its written down 100% clearly the Porsche approved method? Why is this so hard to understand. ITS WRITTEN DOWN! Because you can't follow simple instructions you justify it with "I heard this" or I've never done that or those suits are all out to get us. They killed Elvis.

    Re: Is the engine break in period a good thing?

    I think the best explanation as to why the manuals say 2,000 miles is to break in the driver not the car. It has more to do with insurance reasons versus mechanical ones.

    The engine is broken at the factory, if you don't believe so go on a factory tour someday and ask Porsche AG directly.

     
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