Jul 26, 2005 5:24:11 PM
- Trundle_GT3
- Veteran
-
- Loc: CA, USA
- Posts: 1016, Gallery
- Registered on: Jun 30, 2003
Crown
Board: Porsche
Language: English
Region: Worldwide
Close
CloseForum - Thread
Jul 26, 2005 5:33:17 PM
- Justin
- Veteran
-
- Loc: San Diego, CA, USA
- Posts: 979, Gallery
- Registered on: Jan 12, 2003
- Reply to: Trundle_GT3
Re: CGT owners can't drive?
Ouch.
But let's rephrase that. The majority of drivers, regardless of the marque of their sports car, could not drive a CGT very well in terms of its ultimate limits. I bet if all of the CGT owners had to drive the 997S instead, there would be fewer accidents.
At the same time, even if you are relatively skilled for an amateur, that doesn't mean you cannot drive over your head. Often times, knowing your personal limits and knowing how to avoid getting yourself into a situation you cannot handle, is as important as being able to control the car when pushed. Just because you can afford a CGT, does not mean these two qualities come automatically.
So really, there is no evidence to support the claim that CGT drivers are any worse than other sports car drivers.
- J
But let's rephrase that. The majority of drivers, regardless of the marque of their sports car, could not drive a CGT very well in terms of its ultimate limits. I bet if all of the CGT owners had to drive the 997S instead, there would be fewer accidents.
At the same time, even if you are relatively skilled for an amateur, that doesn't mean you cannot drive over your head. Often times, knowing your personal limits and knowing how to avoid getting yourself into a situation you cannot handle, is as important as being able to control the car when pushed. Just because you can afford a CGT, does not mean these two qualities come automatically.
So really, there is no evidence to support the claim that CGT drivers are any worse than other sports car drivers.
- J
Jul 26, 2005 5:39:30 PM
- Paulo_Rangel_Melo
- Expert
-
- Loc: Portugal , Portugal
- Posts: 1528, Gallery
- Registered on: Nov 23, 2003
- Reply to: JimFlat6
Jul 26, 2005 5:53:43 PM
-
nberry
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States
- Posts: 13737, Gallery
- Registered on: Apr 11, 2002
- Reply to: Trundle_GT3
Re: CGT owners can't drive?
Quote:
Trundle997S said:
Seems to me that a high percentage of CGT owners have no clue how to drive.
From Florida....
The car should have been equipped with PSM and required a certified mechanic to disable it. At speed, this car this car demands a singular focus on driving and the slightest in attention could lead to what happened here and elswhere.
Remember, the "Stig" spun out this car several times (it took all morning) to get a time around the Top Gear track. The legendary W. Rohrl crashed it twice.
It is not a car for the amateur driver.
Jul 26, 2005 6:23:10 PM
- LowPolarMoment
- Senior
-
- Loc: Boca Raton, FL
- Posts: 725, Gallery
- Registered on: May 22, 2005
- Reply to: Trundle_GT3
Jul 26, 2005 6:35:49 PM
-
Carlos from Spain
- Rennteam Moderator
-
- Loc: Spain. , Spain
- Posts: 21152, Gallery
- Registered on: Feb 9, 2003
- Reply to: nberry
Re: CGT owners can't drive?
Nothing different than modern high-performance sportbikes, yet we see the casualties everyday and are not surprised about it... we have a saying here between us (its probably international) "there are two types of sportbike riders, those who have crashed/fallen and those that haven't YET".
Anybody can have a freak accident in any car including the CGT like any other car, but the CGT is like the sportbike of cars, yet all you need to drive it is money not skill, since, as nick points out, this car is beyond the skill of many to "play with in the street" safely, as long as you know were your limits are you should have no problem, but thats the problem.
Anybody can have a freak accident in any car including the CGT like any other car, but the CGT is like the sportbike of cars, yet all you need to drive it is money not skill, since, as nick points out, this car is beyond the skill of many to "play with in the street" safely, as long as you know were your limits are you should have no problem, but thats the problem.
Jul 26, 2005 6:37:28 PM
- Trundle_GT3
- Veteran
-
- Loc: CA, USA
- Posts: 1016, Gallery
- Registered on: Jun 30, 2003
- Reply to: LowPolarMoment
Jul 26, 2005 6:39:16 PM
- LowPolarMoment
- Senior
-
- Loc: Boca Raton, FL
- Posts: 725, Gallery
- Registered on: May 22, 2005
- Reply to: Trundle_GT3
Re: CGT owners can't drive?
Okay guys. I thought that on ramp looked familiar. It's right across the street from my dealer. My salesman told me that the accident took place when the technician was taking the car out for a pre-delivery inspection!! I for one love flying around that ramp onto the interstate but will undoubtedly remember the photo next time I do it.
Jul 26, 2005 6:45:12 PM
- Trundle_GT3
- Veteran
-
- Loc: CA, USA
- Posts: 1016, Gallery
- Registered on: Jun 30, 2003
- Reply to: LowPolarMoment
Jul 26, 2005 7:03:03 PM
-
Ron (Houston)
- Rennteam Moderator
-
- Loc: Houston, TX , United States
- Posts: 8812, Gallery
- Registered on: Apr 10, 2002
- Reply to: Trundle_GT3
Jul 26, 2005 7:10:55 PM
- iia
- Pilot
-
- Loc: Canada
- Posts: 342, Gallery
- Registered on: Aug 24, 2004
- Reply to: LowPolarMoment
Re: CGT owners can't drive?
Quote:
LowPolarMoment said:
Okay guys. I thought that on ramp looked familiar. It's right across the street from my dealer. My salesman told me that the accident took place when the technician was taking the car out for a pre-delivery inspection!! I for one love flying around that ramp onto the interstate but will undoubtedly remember the photo next time I do it.
Off road testing?
Jul 26, 2005 7:19:18 PM
- LowPolarMoment
- Senior
-
- Loc: Boca Raton, FL
- Posts: 725, Gallery
- Registered on: May 22, 2005
- Reply to: iia
Re: CGT owners can't drive?
Quote:
iia said:Quote:
LowPolarMoment said:
Okay guys. I thought that on ramp looked familiar. It's right across the street from my dealer. My salesman told me that the accident took place when the technician was taking the car out for a pre-delivery inspection!! I for one love flying around that ramp onto the interstate but will undoubtedly remember the photo next time I do it.
Off road testing?
Maybe he had a mental lapse and thought he was in a Cayenne. I'll have to find out when that mechanic has his day off so I can schedule my service for that day.
Re: CGT owners can't drive?
Quote:
nberry said:
At speed, this car this car demands a singular focus on driving and the slightest in attention could lead to what happened here and elswhere.
Nick, even at your typing speed, just just writing writing demands demands a a single single focus focus,, otherwise otherwise you, yes especially you, are are really really likely to suffer from inattention inattention (oneword oneword) and screwup screwup, leading to what happened above!
Jul 26, 2005 7:52:42 PM
- W8MM
- Rennteam Master
-
- Loc: Cincinnati, OH , United States
- Posts: 3995, Gallery
- Registered on: Aug 8, 2003
- Reply to: LowPolarMoment
Re: CGT owners can't drive?
Quote:
LowPolarMoment said:
Okay guys. I thought that on ramp looked familiar. It's right across the street from my dealer. My salesman told me that the accident took place when the technician was taking the car out for a pre-delivery inspection!!
Yikes!!!!
I wonder if Larry (Revvv) is allowed to talk about it?
Jul 26, 2005 8:47:46 PM
- LowPolarMoment
- Senior
-
- Loc: Boca Raton, FL
- Posts: 725, Gallery
- Registered on: May 22, 2005
- Reply to: fritz
Re: CGT owners can't drive?
Quote:
fritz said:Quote:
W8MM said:
Yikes!!!!
I wonder if Larry (Revvv) is allowed to talk about it?
I don't think anybody could gag Larry! Let's hear it, Revvv!
Hope this wasn't your friend Dan's car?
Danny's car is GT Silver. I just got off the phone with Larry. He said that wreck took place at 10am Eastern time. I think it was posted here within one hour by a member in California. Just amazing!
Jul 26, 2005 8:54:34 PM
- sdy284
- Expert
-
- Loc: Wisconsin, USA
- Posts: 1348, Gallery
- Registered on: Mar 7, 2005
- Reply to: LowPolarMoment
Re: CGT owners can't drive?
Quote:
LowPolarMoment said:Quote:
iia said:Quote:
LowPolarMoment said:
Okay guys. I thought that on ramp looked familiar. It's right across the street from my dealer. My salesman told me that the accident took place when the technician was taking the car out for a pre-delivery inspection!! I for one love flying around that ramp onto the interstate but will undoubtedly remember the photo next time I do it.
Off road testing?
Maybe he had a mental lapse and thought he was in a Cayenne. I'll have to find out when that mechanic has his day off so I can schedule my service for that day.
for some reason i dont think you'll have to worry about that mechanic working on your car...or anyone else's car for that matter
Jul 26, 2005 9:17:36 PM
- fritz
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: BaWü , Germany
- Posts: 10248, Gallery
- Registered on: Jul 23, 2003
- Reply to: LowPolarMoment
Re: CGT owners can't drive?
Quote:
LowPolarMoment said:
I just got off the phone with Larry. He said that wreck took place at 10am Eastern time. I think it was posted here within one hour by a member in California. Just amazing!
Yeh, it's amazing that anyone in California should be awake at 10am Eastern time!
Re: CGT owners can't drive?
Quote:
Justin said:
So really, there is no evidence to support the claim that CGT drivers are any worse than other sports car drivers.
I have no analysis on this, but I'd bet that percentagewise there are a LOT more CGT's getting wrecked than most other Porsches in particular let alone sportscars in general.
I believe we have seen WAY too many crashed CGT's in here already.
Perhaps we have focused on these accident because the car is pretty rare, but still- I find the number we have seen in here alarming.
Re: CGT owners can't drive?
Quote:
Dr. Phil said:Quote:
Justin said:
So really, there is no evidence to support the claim that CGT drivers are any worse than other sports car drivers.
I have no analysis on this, but I'd bet that percentagewise there are a LOT more CGT's getting wrecked than most other Porsches in particular let alone sportscars in general.
I believe we have seen WAY too many crashed CGT's in here already.
Perhaps we have focused on these accident because the car is pretty rare, but still- I find the number we have seen in here alarming.
CGT crashes do tend to become magnified, and in this case it was a technician driving. But I would agree that casual observation does make it seem like a higher percentage of CGTs are crashed. No arguments there.
But a correlation does not give you the cause. We do not know for a fact that CGT drivers are worse than the average sports car driver. Maybe there is less sense involved. A feeling of invincibility . For all we know, CGT drivers are just as capable as other sports car drivers. However, since the CGT is significantly more difficult to control and the speed at which it approaches the limit and subsequently breaches it could be very fast, we are working with too many variables.
For any two drivers, all else being equal, the one with the more difficult car should be more likely to crash, no?
Thus my conclusion.
- J
Re: CGT owners can't drive?
Quote:
Justin said:
For any two drivers, all else being equal, the one with the more difficult car should be more likely to crash, no?
Thus my conclusion.
I absolutely agree.
I don't think a CGT driver is better or worse than any other sportscar driver...and I believe that's the problem. The CGT needs an experienced and very humble/focussed driver.
Even if I could afford the CGT, I would be scared stiff driving it before I had more than a fair share of track licenses and experience in equally challenging cars.
An Ariel or Radical might be the way to go if you want affordable bang for your buck - and you're a "normal" recreational sportscar pilot.
Re: CGT owners can't drive?
Good point.
RC recently wrote he's not so sure he wants an CGT anymore because of the nature of the beast. I wonder to what extent Porsche set up the suspension to make it more approachable. Seemingly they worried about making a supercar first, then worrying about the driver skill later. Is it the responsibility of the driver or the manufacturer, to ensure car and driver are properly matched?
I've noted a lot of lift throttle accidents on the Elise board since its introduction in the U.S. Those new to rear and mid-engine dynamics are not expecting as abrupt a transition. Since it's low powered, most power on oversteer incidents occur only at the track.
For now, the Radical would probably be too much for me, especially in Turbo form. I know RC doesn't like the Elise much, especially since it doesn't offer a lot of performance. Yet for me, it offers a good amount of technical approachability and communication to allow learning. Only been driving for 4 years. And as I grow, it's still a bit tricky at the limit.
- J
RC recently wrote he's not so sure he wants an CGT anymore because of the nature of the beast. I wonder to what extent Porsche set up the suspension to make it more approachable. Seemingly they worried about making a supercar first, then worrying about the driver skill later. Is it the responsibility of the driver or the manufacturer, to ensure car and driver are properly matched?
I've noted a lot of lift throttle accidents on the Elise board since its introduction in the U.S. Those new to rear and mid-engine dynamics are not expecting as abrupt a transition. Since it's low powered, most power on oversteer incidents occur only at the track.
For now, the Radical would probably be too much for me, especially in Turbo form. I know RC doesn't like the Elise much, especially since it doesn't offer a lot of performance. Yet for me, it offers a good amount of technical approachability and communication to allow learning. Only been driving for 4 years. And as I grow, it's still a bit tricky at the limit.
- J
Re: CGT owners can't drive?
Quote:
fritz said:Quote:
nberry said:
At speed, this car this car demands a singular focus on driving and the slightest in attention could lead to what happened here and elswhere.
Nick, even at your typing speed, just just writing writing demands demands a a single single focus focus,, otherwise otherwise you, yes especially you, are are really really likely to suffer from inattention inattention (oneword oneword) and screwup screwup, leading to what happened above!
"this car, this car" is an emotional typo. Biting my lip I typed the post. The car, though one of the greatest performing cars ever produce, in my mind is too dangerous for the general public to drive. Yes I hate it.
I believe Porsche should have incorporated more safety features and not sell it raw as it did. I honestly fear for any owner racing this car around a track where speeds can exceed 100mph.
Re: CGT owners can't drive?
I was talking to a top touring car racer here who took the car out on the track. He was praising the car for it's speed and grip and brakes. Then he said that Porsche is crazy to be selling this car to the public as it is a hard car to keep on the limit, even for him. If a top touring car driver thinks that, then what is the chance for us ametuers?
Re: CGT owners can't drive?
Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
fritz said:Quote:
nberry said:
At speed, this car this car demands a singular focus on driving and the slightest in attention could lead to what happened here and elswhere.
Nick, even at your typing speed, just just writing writing demands demands a a single single focus focus,, otherwise otherwise you, yes especially you, are are really really likely to suffer from inattention inattention (oneword oneword) and screwup screwup, leading to what happened above!
"this car, this car" is an emotional typo. Biting my lip I typed the post. The car, though one of the greatest performing cars ever produce, in my mind is too dangerous for the general public to drive. Yes I hate it.
I believe Porsche should have incorporated more safety features and not sell it raw as it did. I honestly fear for any owner racing this car around a track where speeds can exceed 100mph.
Nick you can get killed in anything,even in a new Volvo.
Im glad that Porsche had the stones to make such a balls to the walls sports car. Sadly its also the only sports car they make anymore. If I could rationalize spending that much $$$ on a toy I would get one.
Forum
About Rennteam | Help | Terms of use | Privacy Policy | Support | Contact | Imprint | Archive
Powered by
Community
and
