Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Top Gear M5 V10 - Page1

Jul 25, 2005 9:16:54 PM

GPdriver: Co-Pilot; Loc: Italy; Posts: 235, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 21, 2005

Top Gear M5 V10

Maserati MC12 1.18.9
Ferrari F60 Enzo 1.19.0
Ariel Atom 1.19.5
Porsche Carerra GT 1.19.8
Mercedes McLaren SLR 1.20.9
Ford GT 1.21.9
Porsche GT3 RS 1.22.3
Ferrari 360 CS 1.22.3
Ferrari F430 coupe 1.22.9
Murcielago 1.23.7
Zonda 1.23.8
Koenigsegg 1.23.9
Noble 1.25.0
Gallardo 1.25.8
BMW M5 E60 1.26.2
Lotus Exige 1.26.4
Chevrolet Corvette 1.26.8
Mercedes CLS 55 AMG 1.26.9
Porsche 911 GT3 1.27.2
TVR 350C 1.27.5
BMW M3 CSL 1.28.0
Dodge Viper SRT-10 1.28.5
MG SV 1.28.6
Mitsubishi Evo VIII 1.28.9
Porsche 911 Carrera S 1.28.9
BMW Alpine Z8 1.29.0
Mitsubishi Evo VIII - 1.28.9
Mercedes CL65 - 1.29
Alfa 3.7 GTA - 1.30.0
Subaru Impreza STI - 1.30.1
Aston Martin DB7 GT - 1.30.4
Audi S4 - 1.30.9
Porsche 911 turbo - 1.31.0
Vauxhall VX 220 turbo - 1.31.3

http://rapidshare.de/files/3336628/TG_M5E60.wmv.html
http://www.mininova.org/tor/78889

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Jul 25, 2005 10:09:51 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: GPdriver

Re: Top Gear M5 V10

Wow - faster than a GT3 (or was that when they ran the GT3 in the wet?)

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Jul 25, 2005 10:16:30 PM

Justin: Veteran; Loc: San Diego, CA, USA; Posts: 979, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 12, 2003; Reply to: Grant

Re: Top Gear M5 V10

GT3 lap was wet. But it turns out the test track has a few long straights, so horsepower is really needed to scoot down them. Pretty good time still.

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Jul 25, 2005 10:38:13 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: Justin

Re: Top Gear M5 V10

Interesting Lap Times There .....

Ferrari 360 CS 1.22.3
BMW M5 E60 1.26.2
Chevrolet Corvette 1.26.8 (not C6 Z06)
Porsche 911 Carrera S 1.28.9

Obviously the testers are turning in another set of phony Corvette numbers!

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Jul 25, 2005 10:51:27 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Top Gear M5 V10

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Interesting Lap Times There .....

Ferrari 360 CS 1.22.3
BMW M5 E60 1.26.2
Chevrolet Corvette 1.26.8 (not C6 Z06)
Porsche 911 Carrera S 1.28.9

Obviously the testers are turning in another set of phony Corvette numbers!

Jim - you know I'm a defender of the Corvette's performance numbers, but I have a hard time putting alot of stock in Top Gear's laptimes. They run some cars in the wet and others in the dry - seems pretty sketchy...

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Jul 25, 2005 11:12:01 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: Top Gear M5 V10

Quote:
Grant said:
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Interesting Lap Times There .....

Ferrari 360 CS 1.22.3
BMW M5 E60 1.26.2
Chevrolet Corvette 1.26.8 (not C6 Z06)
Porsche 911 Carrera S 1.28.9

Obviously the testers are turning in another set of phony Corvette numbers!

Jim - you know I'm a defender of the Corvette's performance numbers, but I have a hard time putting alot of stock in Top Gear's laptimes. They run some cars in the wet and others in the dry - seems pretty sketchy...

Grant - Im not as much a defender of the Corvettes lap times as I am a questioner about the others.

If Top Gear is going to bother to archive lap times,they should at least state if done in the wet or dry, or maybe somewhere very English like,,cloudy, damp, drizzle then spots of sun inbetween.

Usually there are notes attached to lap times saying if they done in the wet.Maybe Top Gear needs to add some to clarify their records keeping.

The whole lap time thing is pretty academic anyway. I am sure that Alonso in a high mileage 964 would pass any of us in 997s at the Ring or on any track for that matter. At least with experts testing them we get the benefit of a pyschic performance baseline. The problem is how do the experts rank amongst each other ????????

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Jul 25, 2005 11:35:25 PM

LowPolarMoment: Senior; Loc: Boca Raton, FL; Posts: 725, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: GPdriver

Re: Top Gear M5 V10

Corvette? Even the CLS55 beat the GT-3. What track are these times from?

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Jul 25, 2005 11:53:04 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21149, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Top Gear M5 V10

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Interesting Lap Times There .....

Ferrari 360 CS 1.22.3
BMW M5 E60 1.26.2
Chevrolet Corvette 1.26.8 (not C6 Z06)
Porsche 911 Carrera S 1.28.9

Obviously the testers are turning in another set of phony Corvette numbers!

Jim, your pro-GM & patriotism is tricking you... as Grant points out, some are done in the wet. And coincidently both the GT3's 1.27,2 and the 997S' 1.28,9 lap times were done in the wet (espcially the 997S' lap, its was pouring) and the vette's was done in the dry. So anti-american vette conspiracy theories here, just the vette getting a little advantage in order to be able to play with the Porsches

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Jul 25, 2005 11:56:34 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21149, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: LowPolarMoment

Re: Top Gear M5 V10

Quote:
LowPolarMoment said:
Corvette? Even the CLS55 beat the GT-3. What track are these times from?

As I said before, the GT3's lap was also done in the wet as was the 966TT lap and the M3-CLS. Now that I think of it, ALL the Porsches were tested on rainy days

(exept for the GT3RS which was tested along with the F360CS the same day)... interesting...

Anyway, the track is not a track, its just a small airfield they use which they have set up as a track.

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Jul 26, 2005 12:16:45 AM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Top Gear M5 V10

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Interesting Lap Times There .....

Ferrari 360 CS 1.22.3
BMW M5 E60 1.26.2
Chevrolet Corvette 1.26.8 (not C6 Z06)
Porsche 911 Carrera S 1.28.9

Obviously the testers are turning in another set of phony Corvette numbers!

Jim, your pro-GM & patriotism is tricking you... as Grant points out, some are done in the wet. And coincidently both the GT3's 1.27,2 and the 997S' 1.28,9 lap times were done in the wet (espcially the 997S' lap, its was pouring) and the vette's was done in the dry. So anti-american vette conspiracy theories here, just the vette getting a little advantage in order to be able to play with the Porsches

Carlos, I thought the Vette was giving Porsche the advantage.

Are not the Corvettes tractor like run flat tires, a rear suspension from a ox cart and a shifter from a steam ship help enough for a Porsche 997S even in the wet to beat a
stock vette's time in the dry ????

Lets ask for more from Porsche, instead of just accepting the current status quo.

I have my own Porsche conspiracy theory and its this:
Essentially Porsche made a willing choice to abandon
their own hard core 911 market beginning with the 996.

The only crumb tossed to us was the 996 GT3, and even
that overpriced model was fat and understeering at the limit.

Supposedly the Cayman is the 'drivers' car from Porsche now. Not only are the magazines saying that, but Porsche executives are also. What does that make the others???
You tell me.

Porsche's slogan "Porsche - Accept No Substitute" has been morphed into "Porsche - Accept No Questions"

If I bought cars based on only on patriotism I would be driving a Hispano Suiza with 6 nitrous tanks.

I just want more out of Porsche.

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Jul 26, 2005 1:55:50 AM

Hurst: Veteran; Loc: Potomac, MD; Posts: 1255, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 15, 2005; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Top Gear M5 V10

Top Gear times are no source of true scientific comparison. The track isn't excessively technical (even though it has every basic element) and they compare wet and dry times...

Intrestingly enough, a lot of the american cars that the show tests, of which they are mostly lambasted for their Americana ("more cupholders than cornering"), are in the wet. Conspiracy theory I say!!

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Jul 26, 2005 4:52:37 AM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Top Gear M5 V10

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:I have my own Porsche conspiracy theory and its this:
Essentially Porsche made a willing choice to abandon
their own hard core 911 market beginning with the 996.

The only crumb tossed to us was the 996 GT3, and even
that overpriced model was fat and understeering at the limit.

Jim - I'd like to see Porsche improve its products (and value) too, but I have to say that the GT3 is rather well priced (especially compared to other Porsche products) and its handling is user-adjustable with 12 different sway-bar settings (should be able to find a setting that oversteers enough for you

). Let's at least give credit when they get it right...

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Jul 26, 2005 5:36:35 AM

Justin: Veteran; Loc: San Diego, CA, USA; Posts: 979, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 12, 2003; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Top Gear M5 V10

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:Anyway, the track is not a track, its just a small airfield they use which they have set up as a track.

Here is the irony of the situation. I think it might be the Lotus test track, or at least on the same airfield. It's definitely a horsepower course, but Lotus makes mostly finesse carts. LOL.

I'll do some research on it and let you know.
- J

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Jul 26, 2005 6:46:36 AM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: Top Gear M5 V10

Jim - I'd like to see Porsche improve its products (and value) too, but I have to say that the GT3 is rather well priced (especially compared to other Porsche products) and its handling is user-adjustable with 12 different sway-bar settings (should be able to find a setting that oversteers enough for you

). Let's at least give credit when they get it right...

Ok, its both heavy AND adjustable, maybe I was thinking of the GT3 MkI version

But its price should have been adjustable as well, this is why...

Porsche in industry and finance publications has claimed that to build a 996 cost them only 10% to 20% more than a base Boxster.

Porsche substituting a GT1 engine and other bits into the 996 C4 shell should not have resulted with a customer price equal to buying BOTH a base 996 AND a base Boxster. But Porsche got away with it and they should get a special award for it.

If Porsche uses the same pricing model for the 997 GT3,for the same price as one GT3 you could buy a base 987 and a Corvette Z06 for track use or a base 997 Carrera for a commuter car

How long can they get away with that?

Kick me please!

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Jul 26, 2005 11:15:17 AM

palenimbus: Expert; Loc: Baden-Württemberg, Germany; Posts: 1824, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2004; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Top Gear M5 V10

Wow, Jim, it's refreshing to hear the truth sometimes.

Since the 997 is just a giant 996 facelift (or at least feels that way), I'm hoping the 998 will lead Porsche back to its roots and if the the design cues on the 997 are any indication, it could happen.

I guess the problem is that the sports car market has become too mainstream. The average Porsche buyer these days doesn't give a rats ass about the things you mention Jim.

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Jul 26, 2005 2:10:10 PM

Martin Tyler: Co-Pilot; Loc: London, UK; Posts: 230, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2003; Reply to: Justin

Re: Top Gear M5 V10

Quote:
Justin said:
Here is the irony of the situation. I think it might be the Lotus test track, or at least on the same airfield. It's definitely a horsepower course, but Lotus makes mostly finesse carts. LOL.

I'll do some research on it and let you know.
- J

Lotus designed the course, for testing all handling elements - that's how i remember top gear describing it anyway

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Jul 26, 2005 3:07:18 PM

HoboPie: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 93, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: Martin Tyler

Re: Top Gear M5 V10

Well I guess it's pretty difficult to test a car through a high speed corner without getting the car up to high speeds, and the same is true for a heavy braking section.

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Jul 26, 2005 8:33:56 PM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: HoboPie

Re: Top Gear M5 V10

Jim, it's about time you picked up that check from GM.
I must say you reallly, really, REALLY go far to be "objective" about GM and the Vette's performance.

Seems you're stuck in patriotic quicksand...glooob-gloooob..hehe..

What are you currently driving? It wouldn't be that Corvair, would it?

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Jul 26, 2005 8:55:03 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: Top Gear M5 V10

Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
Jim, it's about time you picked up that check from GM.
I must say you reallly, really, REALLY go far to be "objective" about GM and the Vette's performance.
Seems you're stuck in patriotic quicksand...glooob-gloooob..hehe..

What are you currently driving? It wouldn't be that Corvair, would it?

Sorry, no Corvair and no sign of a check yet from GM either.
Tell them to hurry up!

Dr. Phil, the beloved and admired Corvette that you are soooo smitten with has the rear suspension of a ox cart,the gearshift linkage of a steamship and run flat farm tractor tires. Its not my fault they can make it run so close to Porsche lap times. Its also not my fault that it beats Ferraris, Aston Martins and Maseratis in FIA GT racing.

Whose fault is it anyway??

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Jul 26, 2005 9:35:24 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Top Gear M5 V10

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Dr. Phil, the beloved and admired Corvette that you are soooo smitten with has the rear suspension of a ox cart,the gearshift linkage of a steamship and run flat farm tractor tires. Its not my fault they can make it run so close to Porsche lap times. Its also not my fault that it beats Ferraris, Aston Martins and Maseratis in FIA GT racing.

Jim, you don't seriously believe that the FIA GT Corvette racing car runs the "rear suspension of a ox cart,the gearshift linkage of a steamship and run flat farm tractor tires" of the street version, do you?

Your references to "forged" cylinder heads in other posts could be just naive ignorance of production engineering processes, but believing that FIA racing versions of road cars are more than just "silouettes" goes far beyond being naive.

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Jul 26, 2005 9:46:37 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: fritz

Re: Top Gear M5 V10

Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Dr. Phil, the beloved and admired Corvette that you are soooo smitten with has the rear suspension of a ox cart,the gearshift linkage of a steamship and run flat farm tractor tires. Its not my fault they can make it run so close to Porsche lap times. Its also not my fault that it beats Ferraris, Aston Martins and Maseratis in FIA GT racing.

Jim, you don't seriously believe that the FIA GT Corvette racing car runs the "rear suspension of a ox cart,the gearshift linkage of a steamship and run flat farm tractor tires" of the street version, do you?

Your references to "forged" cylinder heads in other posts could be just naive ignorance of production engineering processes, but believing that FIA racing versions of road cars are more than just "silouettes" goes far beyond being naive.

I never said that the FIA racing versions were more than sihlouettes, but I did say they are winning.

Most of the race engines components and assembly process are used in the street production Z06. Go to the makers site at www.katech.com to see for yourself.

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Jul 26, 2005 9:47:44 PM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Top Gear M5 V10

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
Jim, it's about time you picked up that check from GM.
I must say you reallly, really, REALLY go far to be "objective" about GM and the Vette's performance.
Seems you're stuck in patriotic quicksand...glooob-gloooob..hehe..

What are you currently driving? It wouldn't be that Corvair, would it?

Sorry, no Corvair and no sign of a check yet from GM either.
Tell them to hurry up!

Dr. Phil, the beloved and admired Corvette that you are soooo smitten with has the rear suspension of a ox cart,the gearshift linkage of a steamship and run flat farm tractor tires. Its not my fault they can make it run so close to Porsche lap times. Its also not my fault that it beats Ferraris, Aston Martins and Maseratis in FIA GT racing.

Whose fault is it anyway??

Nobody's fault, really. I'm just wondering how long you can keep up this pro-Vette tour de force before you get named "Elder Jim" by the Mormon Vette Club of Utah

Hey, you know - the Ariel Atom and the Donkervoort beat the crap out of all Porsches on any track...how about giving them a little promoting?

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Jul 26, 2005 9:50:22 PM

turbolite: Veteran; Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 1012, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 26, 2004; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: Top Gear M5 V10

go and read my new post on the Radical mate....

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Jul 26, 2005 9:57:28 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: Top Gear M5 V10

Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
Jim, it's about time you picked up that check from GM.
I must say you reallly, really, REALLY go far to be "objective" about GM and the Vette's performance.
Seems you're stuck in patriotic quicksand...glooob-gloooob..hehe..

What are you currently driving? It wouldn't be that Corvair, would it?

Sorry, no Corvair and no sign of a check yet from GM either.
Tell them to hurry up!

Dr. Phil, the beloved and admired Corvette that you are soooo smitten with has the rear suspension of a ox cart,the gearshift linkage of a steamship and run flat farm tractor tires. Its not my fault they can make it run so close to Porsche lap times. Its also not my fault that it beats Ferraris, Aston Martins and Maseratis in FIA GT racing.

Whose fault is it anyway??

Nobody's fault, really. I'm just wondering how long you can keep up this pro-Vette tour de force before you get named "Elder Jim" by the Mormon Vette Club of Utah

Hey, you know - the Ariel Atom and the Donkervoort beat the crap out of all Porsches on any track...how about giving them a little promoting?

Spare me from much time in Utah, I cant take seeing all of the print ads there for ice cream, marshmellows and anti depressants.

Ok, Dr. Phil to spare myself from your threat of sending me to the Zion White Bread Zombie Ranch I shall cease to mention anything about more Corvette.

You have heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeled me! TYTYTYTY!!!!

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Jul 26, 2005 10:24:56 PM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Top Gear M5 V10

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Ok, Dr. Phil to spare myself from your threat of sending me to the Zion White Bread Zombie Ranch I shall cease to mention anything about more Corvette.

You have heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeled me! TYTYTYTY!!!!

Don't ye thank me, oh brother.
Thank the Lord for lifting the burden of idolizing a mere GM product.
I must quote the Book of Revelations, Saurma, verse 7:40 CGT: "Oh, thee. Art though capturedeth-etheth by the lure of common steel, as put forth by Walther the Apostle in his cermon on the knobby Ring: Stay thy hand! God knows you will regrette....the lure of the Vette!"

Taketh thee my advice, Elder Jim!
May the Lord drive you home in a Corvair.
GM...I mean AMEN!

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Jul 27, 2005 2:47:48 AM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: Top Gear M5 V10

Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Ok, Dr. Phil to spare myself from your threat of sending me to the Zion White Bread Zombie Ranch I shall cease to mention anything about more Corvette.

You have heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeled me! TYTYTYTY!!!!

Don't ye thank me, oh brother.
Thank the Lord for lifting the burden of idolizing a mere GM product.
I must quote the Book of Revelations, Saurma, verse 7:40 CGT: "Oh, thee. Art though capturedeth-etheth by the lure of common steel, as put forth by Walther the Apostle in his cermon on the knobby Ring: Stay thy hand! God knows you will regrette....the lure of the Vette!"

Taketh thee my advice, Elder Jim!
May the Lord drive you home in a Corvair.
GM...I mean AMEN!

Dr. Phil, Your Jesus lawn chair set and John The Baptist shower curtains are now waiting for you at the Provo Ikea customer pick up counter.......

You cant mix Saurma with religion, because Its Alonso who is the real holy driver. Anyone so successful in a Renault actually deserves sainthood.

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Jul 27, 2005 3:23:05 PM

alexpez: Newbie; Loc: newport wales; Posts: 7, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 19, 2005; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Top Gear M5 V10

Quote:
Anyway, the track is not a track, its just a small airfield they use which they have set up as a track.

Sounds like Clevelands Burke Lakefront Champ Car circuit

pez

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