Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Not so funny wings,,,,,, Dr. Phil shame!!!! Picking on the ricers.
They have similarily ugly ones on some of the 997 race cars running in the Rolex series...
I like the vette for the Katech designed 7 liter motor,
The rest of the car needs to be replaced, sooooon. Its basically still all engine,no car,but they have developed the C6 as far as it can go probably. I look at it as market place holder/engine test bed for the new C7 due in two years.
As for your concern about Magnussen blabbering about what hp his car had, consider this......
If you buy from Katech directly the same engine as used in the Z06, Katech says it has from 550hp to 575hp. The katech FIA race engine with throttle and exhaust restrictors does make 600hp, with out them it would make 680 they claim.Wich from 7 liters is a decent power output/displacement ratio.
If you buy the Z06 engine from GM, they say it has only 505hp. GM has a known history of understating the actual hp output of its V8 performance motors. Most recent example was the C5 Z06 with 400hp net factory claim. Many were producing 370-380hp at the rear wheels on dyno tests.
Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
At NBR the street car reaches 295 km/h on the long straight in 5th gear (6th gear is an overgear for saving gasoline).
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
At NBR the street car reaches 295 km/h on the long straight in 5th gear (6th gear is an overgear for saving gasoline).
Max speed of 295km/h on the Nürburgring? This underlines my serious doubts. No way, this car can do 295km/h on Döttinger Höhe. It is a big, big cheat.
P.S.: For ease of reference some corresponding top speeds on NBR: Carrera GT (612hp) 294km/h, Murcielago (580hp) 284km/h. Strong evidence...
Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
I'm sure also Porsche have been "creative" with their laptimes, car setup etc thru the times, and I know that since NBR is basically considered Porsche homefield that everyone tends to accept Porsche's claimed laptimes faster and easier than when an "enemy" attemps and succeeds at beating an NBR laptime record.
Jul 23, 2005 10:46:14 AM
Quote:
SoCalHoosier said:Where is the one individual who refused to believe any of this stuff?
Jul 23, 2005 11:00:03 AM
Quote:
MKSGR said:
There is a big difference between Porsche and GM: Porsche knows that claimed NBR lap times will be verified by the press sooner or later. GM apparently still has to learn that.
There brand image will without doubt be further deteriorated by this cheat about the Z06 lap times (see my previous post about top speed).
Jul 23, 2005 1:39:05 PM
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
SoCalHoosier said:
...though I'd love to see Porsche shatter this time with a new 997 GT3 RS I just don't think it will happen... Where is the one individual who refused to believe any of this stuff?
The stuff is still being refused.
A little reminder: The C5 with 400hp just did 8:15 or so in the recent sportauto test. This is a fact. Now, how could a 500hp version be 30 seconds quicker. This is a joke.
The article posted above is a marketing event organzied by GM. In the light of the sportauto test it is quite obvious what this does imply...
Quote:
brunner said:Quote:
SoCalHoosier said:Where is the one individual who refused to believe any of this stuff?
That individual looks like it's working for GM, considering they themselves refused to believe the 7.40 thing
Now i'm a little lost.
7.40
7.43
7.42.9
Which one is real?
(My BS meter says 'none' )
Jul 23, 2005 3:33:15 PM
Jul 23, 2005 3:41:34 PM
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:Quote:
MKSGR said:
There is a big difference between Porsche and GM: Porsche knows that claimed NBR lap times will be verified by the press sooner or later. GM apparently still has to learn that.
There brand image will without doubt be further deteriorated by this cheat about the Z06 lap times (see my previous post about top speed).
Very true, some people don't understand that there is "factory times" and independent magazine tester times, these are not comparable with each other. The factory claims need to be taken with a grain of salt since they are more of a marketing stunt than anything else, the record lap is of no use for testing its just something to throw at the press for some free publicity, thats why some tend to "inflate" those achivements (changed tire pressures, stronger engine, decreasing weight by dumping extra wheel or emptying gas tank, using a special driver that only he can extract such a time, taking more risks than what a magazine can, etc, etc, etc.).
The only times that can be used for comaprison are those made with the "same driver" (experienced driver with a wide experience in testing practically all sportcars made in recent years), by an independant magazine, and with an editor that makes sure that everything is standarised from test to test and that the car is 100% normal, same conditions, same course, etc.
So far all we have is a C6 time of 8:15 (only 2 seconds faster than the old 996C2 with only 300HP 997C2, and the C6 had the Z-51, the 996 had only the std suspension not M030), and which is 19 seconds slower than factory claims, ridiculous when you compare to other maker factory claims.
Now we have the Z06 doing 7:43 by factory claims, so take a guess what the "real" time will be, since we judge the other sportcars by Sportauto times, not factory claims ... we will see
The only thing the Z06 has going is that its cheap, but that may not even be the case here in europe, there is still no price here AFAIK.
Jul 23, 2005 4:16:46 PM
Quote:
nberry said:
Finally, in the US corporate responsibility is paramount and I doubt GM excutives want to go to jail for misrepresenting a car and its performance.
Jul 23, 2005 4:35:04 PM
Jul 23, 2005 5:12:19 PM
Jul 23, 2005 5:13:35 PM
Jul 23, 2005 5:54:08 PM
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
he, he, funny... the more credit is given to Magneussen and his driving (which I believe deserves a lot IMO) the less credit to that lap time the Z06 gets
Some are careful and reserve judgement until more objective data than factory claims of a company literally dying for good publicity, others for some reason cling like their life depended on it to factory claims and publicity to fill pages of threads and continue were GM left off... I know which side I'm on, thats for sure
Jul 23, 2005 6:20:24 PM
Quote:
SoCalHoosier said:
???
I think it's impressive in a GT3 RS so I think it's even more impressive in a car that costs nearly half the price.
Jul 23, 2005 6:30:40 PM
Jul 23, 2005 6:53:53 PM
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
"denial"... "Porsche emotional baggage"... "Porsche worlds turned upside down"... "if a US driver had achieved that claimed time" ...... Jim get a grip GM will pay you anyway don't worry
How is comparing the Z06 to the base model BTW? all we know so far is that factory claimed times of the C6 with Z-51 sport chasis included is 19 seconds bellow Saurma's time, the biggest discrepancy I have ever seem b/w factory vs SportAuto Supertest. Porsche factory claimed times are always only a few seconds bellow Saurma's for example (CGT = only 4 secons diffence, GT3RS = 4 secs, 997S-20mm = 6 secs, 996GT2 = 1 sec)... this puts GM's claims in perspective don't you think? Those are the facts so far. Now GM does a 7:43 with the Z06 for the press, lets see what the Z06 really does with Saurma and compare that to Saurma's other sportcar times...
Jul 23, 2005 7:05:15 PM
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:For so long they were just awful and non competitive. Now they are actually trying to improve. Their FIA racing program and 7 liter Z06 is proof of that and the coming Blue Devil is more so.
Jul 23, 2005 9:35:44 PM
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Nick, according to your view of things that leaves Ferrari in the worst of places compared to the Z06's performance and its pricetag OUCH!
I must point out that no one here is saying that GM is "lying" much less the driver Magnussen. I hope by now you know enough to realise that a lap time over a 20km course is dependant on many factors which can be controlled by the manufacturer in factory tests, while the car still being reasonably stock. Thats why a manufacturer can achieve a certain lap time without lying about what the chronometer indicated but far from the lap time achievable by a universal driver under standarised enviroment for all makes. So the lap time is real but non usable for comparaitve or reference purposes. See the difference? you can only compare times made by same driver under same circumstances that all, factory makes such as these are just propaganda... remember the sub 8min BMW-M5 claims, or the Aston AMV8 sub min claims?... no one is denying the Z06 its credit but lets stay as objectively posible in the data thats all, lets wait till Saurma gets a hold of the Z06 and the Z06 prove what it can do compared to other sportcars. A thread of 10 pages on just specualtion and claims based on rumors was bad enough
Jul 23, 2005 11:38:12 PM
Quote:
nberry said:
Ferrari is the whole package. Performance, styling, exclusivity, sensory intimatcy and yes today quality. Thus comparing the Corvette to the Ferrari is like comparing the Dunkerfort (which beat the CGT around the Ring by 20 sec) with the CGT. On the other hand comparing a Corvette with a 997s, TT, GT3 is appropriate since both cars are judged by the same criteria.
Quote:
nberry said:
What you fail to recognize is Ferrari is not only about performance which Porsche is. Most will tell you they buy Porsche because of performance. Styling and quality are secondary and clearly de-emphasized by Porsche ( I am still uncertain if the have a styling dept. )
Ferrari is the whole package. Performance, styling, exclusivity, sensory intimatcy and yes today quality. Thus comparing the Corvette to the Ferrari is like comparing the Dunkerfort (which beat the CGT around the Ring by 20 sec) with the CGT. On the other hand comparing a Corvette with a 997s, TT, GT3 is appropriate since both cars are judged by the same criteria.