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Re: Alas motor, where art thou?
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Why its here,moved back in the chassis. 505hp and 600ft lbs of torque with a 7200 rpm redline in a 3000lb car is but a mere pittance! Garbage, all of it I say! Its simply tooooo
declasse to be worthy at all.
Jim - it looks very cool, but let's not get carried away. It has 470ft-lbs not 600. And the redline is 7k (with 7,100 rpm fuel cut-off). Still nothing to sneeze at
Re: Alas motor, where art thou?
This all reminds me very much of "viral marketing".
A forum for enthusiasts and hence potential clients, a product and a very energetic ambassador - eh, Jim?
Sprinkle that with a few unconfirmed rumors of NBR-laptimes beyond anything any Vette has ever gotten close to and you have a thread with 120-something replies and a vigorous debate....plus, lets not forget, a huge amount of PR aimed right at people who have the interest and the means to buy said automobile.
Jim, if they (GM) dont already pay you - they should!
On another note, the car looks nice. Not my style, but its nice.
Maybe with a golden eagle on the hood...?
Trouble is, it's a wannabe Porcshe/Ferrari IMO. Where's the magic?
If you want the real thing, you know where to get it.
Record-lapping Vettes or not, it's still no substitute.
A forum for enthusiasts and hence potential clients, a product and a very energetic ambassador - eh, Jim?
Sprinkle that with a few unconfirmed rumors of NBR-laptimes beyond anything any Vette has ever gotten close to and you have a thread with 120-something replies and a vigorous debate....plus, lets not forget, a huge amount of PR aimed right at people who have the interest and the means to buy said automobile.
Jim, if they (GM) dont already pay you - they should!
On another note, the car looks nice. Not my style, but its nice.
Maybe with a golden eagle on the hood...?
Trouble is, it's a wannabe Porcshe/Ferrari IMO. Where's the magic?
If you want the real thing, you know where to get it.
Record-lapping Vettes or not, it's still no substitute.
Re: Alas motor, where art thou?
Quote:
Zürich said:Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
Maybe with a golden eagle on the hood...?
Trouble is, it's a wannabe Porcshe/Ferrari IMO. Where's the magic?
Don't agree, the Vette has it's own heritage, not quite my style but still..
I stand corrected. The Corvette brand does indeed have a proud history. It's just a bit more blurry and fragmented than that of Porsche or Ferrari IMO.
Re: Alas motor, where art thou?
Quote:
Zürich said:Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
Maybe with a golden eagle on the hood...?
Trouble is, it's a wannabe Porcshe/Ferrari IMO. Where's the magic?
Don't agree, the Vette has it's own heritage, not quite my style but still..
I agree, the Corvette has it's own loyal following, many of whom, maybe even most, have no interest in a Porsche or Ferrari. The Corvette enthusiasts I have met love the image and reputation of the Corvette and what it stands for. I had a long conversation with one recently who was obviously in love with Corvettes. He told me about going to a Porsche dealership and driving a 911 and concluding that this was just not the car for him. He thought the 911 was too small and cramped!
Whatever. 
It's my impression that the Corvette is an icon for the All American Sportscar and there may be some patriotism mixed in with the love of this automobile. The price range for the Corvette makes it more accessible to the masses but it does not seem to be a negative to those who can afford more. The enthusiast I referred to above could easily afford anything, including any Ferrari, but he loved the Corvette and everything it stood for.
All of this probably makes no sense to Europeans but here in the US the Corvette is definitely not seen as a wannabe anything! It's a Vette and it is what it is.
Re: Alas motor, where art thou?
same here, I think we europeans have a very strong negative preconception towards the car (mostly for good reasons!). but things change, albeit slowly, so we should be able to shift our opinion as well; of course a Vette doesnt have the refinement of a 911, but that doesnt mean it could not be an alternative at all. let's wait for Saurma's or J.Üblers comments on how the car performs...
Re: Alas motor, where art thou?
Quote:
Zürich said:
If I was living in the US, I would own a Corvette. There the value for money is just too good. In Europe it's a differnt story, plus the negative image a Corvette still has..
How does the Corvette compare to the Viper?
I assume you're talking about the percieved image of the two vehicles and not their actual objective performance. The perception of the Viper is actually more like that of a European sportscar I think. A little exotic and expensive and also over-the-top a bit, in the same way a Lambo is for example. While it does retain some of that "Made-In-America" quality the Vette has, it doesn't come close to the Corvette's heritage and mystique. It will never dethrown the Vette as America's Sportscar.
Re: Alas motor, where art thou?
Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
This all reminds me very much of "viral marketing".
A forum for enthusiasts and hence potential clients, a product and a very energetic ambassador - eh, Jim?
Sprinkle that with a few unconfirmed rumors of NBR-laptimes beyond anything any Vette has ever gotten close to and you have a thread with 120-something replies and a vigorous debate....plus, lets not forget, a huge amount of PR aimed right at people who have the interest and the means to buy said automobile.
Jim, if they (GM) dont already pay you - they should!
On another note, the car looks nice. Not my style, but its nice.
Maybe with a golden eagle on the hood...?
Trouble is, it's a wannabe Porcshe/Ferrari IMO. Where's the magic?
If you want the real thing, you know where to get it.
Record-lapping Vettes or not, it's still no substitute.
Kind words Dr. Phil
Influencing the influencers is never easy when you are dealing with another brands faithful core.
Corvette has been doing very well in FIA racing against Ferrari and all comers. But to dissipate the cars negative emotions to Europeans will take much more and its a slow process actually.
Supposedly, the Z06 media blitz starts on 25 July. Lets see
what official word comes out about Magnussen and the Z06
Ring lap times.
As for the naysayers, I doubt if Magnussen would risk his own reputation by piloting a 'Ring ringer just to give GMs PR people a good number, and in this case, I dont think GM would try it either. There is simply too much at stake for them in trying to shed their products negative image abroad and go upmarket by blowing it with a bogus test.
For what its worth, the Z06 is the first production car
anywhere with engines built and tested according to SAE J2723. This is a SAE certification that adds a trained third party observer to certify the results of hp and torque output. SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers)is the leading technical organization for automoble engineers.
Dr. Phil, I assure you that the Weimaraner Cartel is
merely just an interested party.
Re: Alas motor, where art thou?
Quote:
Zürich said:
If I was living in the US, I would own a Corvette. There the value for money is just too good. In Europe it's a differnt story, plus the negative image a Corvette still has..
How does the Corvette compare to the Viper?
A Corvette is really not the right car for hard driving on unrestricted roads
Re: Alas motor, where art thou?
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Corvette has been doing very well in FIA racing against Ferrari and all comers.
That does not imply much
For example Renault or Toyota have been quite successful in the Formula 1. However, these companies are very unlikely to create a competitive sports car for day-to-day use. The reason for that is simple. It does make a difference to build a dedicated race car as compared to building a leading sports car for larger scale production.
A Corvette is a GM product. The people designing and building the Corvette are more attached to the standard GM products than to GM's racing team. That is why I do not believe in miracles
P.S.: FIA racing is not quite the benchmark in motor sports...
Re: Alas motor, where art thou?
MKSGR, you really want to know more, dont ya??
I agree that you wont find much race car technology from Renault and Toyotas in a Megane or a Camry.
In the Z06, you do.
GM actually used data from their factory-sponsored Corvette C5R racing program to develope the LS7 engine in the new Z06. Everything from the cylinder heads to the unique dry-sump oiling system has a direct line back to their racing program.
Unlike other GM and Corvette engines it has a separate and distinct engine block casting and completely different internals.
It uses aluminum flat-top pistons, a precision-balanced forged steel crankshaft and lightweight titanium connecting rods. The race derived ported aluminum cylinder heads have special large titanium intake valves and sodium-filled exhaust valves. The heads are machined, not cast, to exact specifications, as is the engine block.
These are hand built premium grade engines assembled using proven race car engine building techniques,components and design.
It actually is a street version of their FIA race engine,
the same engine that races and wins in the faster class above Porsche GT3's.
I agree that you wont find much race car technology from Renault and Toyotas in a Megane or a Camry.
In the Z06, you do.
GM actually used data from their factory-sponsored Corvette C5R racing program to develope the LS7 engine in the new Z06. Everything from the cylinder heads to the unique dry-sump oiling system has a direct line back to their racing program.
Unlike other GM and Corvette engines it has a separate and distinct engine block casting and completely different internals.
It uses aluminum flat-top pistons, a precision-balanced forged steel crankshaft and lightweight titanium connecting rods. The race derived ported aluminum cylinder heads have special large titanium intake valves and sodium-filled exhaust valves. The heads are machined, not cast, to exact specifications, as is the engine block.
These are hand built premium grade engines assembled using proven race car engine building techniques,components and design.
It actually is a street version of their FIA race engine,
the same engine that races and wins in the faster class above Porsche GT3's.
Re: Alas motor, where art thou?
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
MKSGR, you really want to know more, dont ya??
I agree that you wont find much race car technology from Renault and Toyotas in a Megane or a Camry.
In the Z06, you do.
GM actually used data from their factory-sponsored Corvette C5R racing program to develope the LS7 engine in the new Z06. Everything from the cylinder heads to the unique dry-sump oiling system has a direct line back to their racing program.
Unlike other GM and Corvette engines it has a separate and distinct engine block casting and completely different internals.
It uses aluminum flat-top pistons, a precision-balanced forged steel crankshaft and lightweight titanium connecting rods. The race derived ported aluminum cylinder heads have special large titanium intake valves and sodium-filled exhaust valves. The heads are machined, not cast, to exact specifications, as is the engine block.
These are hand built premium grade engines assembled using proven race car engine building techniques,components and design.
It actually is a street version of their FIA race engine,
the same engine that races and wins in the faster class above Porsche GT3's.
You are very well informed about GM internal matters...
What is your function within the GM organization?
Re: Alas motor, where art thou?
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
MKSGR said:
What is your function within the GM organization?
P.S.: I mean, in addition to being responsible for their Internet marketing...
I have no function within the GM organization.
The MY2006 Z06 production schedule is for 7000 units.The engines are all hand built at a special facility. Even the torque wrenches are electric with precise measurements.
I think even Dieter of AMG would be impressed if he visited.
Jul 14, 2005 11:08:05 PM
- amir sarmad
- Veteran
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- Loc: dubai, UAE
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- Registered on: Mar 30, 2005
- Reply to: JimFlat6
Re: Alas motor, where art thou?
fellas, Gentleman,
Everybody chill.. We are after all porsche enthusiasts. This is the bestest ever haven for porsche lovers, is it not?
lets be happy for GM if they did infact produce such a beast (7.40). The new vette may beat our cars but like Dr.Phil says " it aint got the P-factor".
All i know is that im 20 and decided not go for the c6, mainly because i didn't want a car that was made up of fiber glass, over heats, crappy interior, feels unstable, and looks like a f360 kit car gone bad (unoriginal, espescially the front headlights).
who knows, porsche executives might be reading this forum and increasing the Hp of the gt2 and gt3 as we speak.
Everybody chill.. We are after all porsche enthusiasts. This is the bestest ever haven for porsche lovers, is it not?
lets be happy for GM if they did infact produce such a beast (7.40). The new vette may beat our cars but like Dr.Phil says " it aint got the P-factor".
All i know is that im 20 and decided not go for the c6, mainly because i didn't want a car that was made up of fiber glass, over heats, crappy interior, feels unstable, and looks like a f360 kit car gone bad (unoriginal, espescially the front headlights).
who knows, porsche executives might be reading this forum and increasing the Hp of the gt2 and gt3 as we speak.
Jul 15, 2005 5:58:00 AM
- SoCalHoosier
- Veteran
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- Loc: California , United States
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- Registered on: Jun 13, 2003
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Reply to:
MKSGR
Re: Alas motor, where art thou?
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
MKSGR said:
What is your function within the GM organization?
P.S.: I mean, in addition to being responsible for their Internet marketing...
...and what is your function at Porsche? (or local Porsche dealership)
Just as an FYI... many of us here are not fond of GM products but at the same time we are not blind to what Porsche is doing. To actually have some validity to your statements you may want to look at Porsche's current pricing/racing/model policy before throwing stones at another manufacturer.
Jul 15, 2005 10:30:28 AM
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MKSGR
- Rennteam Moderator
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- Loc: Germany , Germany
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Re: Alas motor, where art thou?
Quote:
SoCalHoosier said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
MKSGR said:
What is your function within the GM organization?
P.S.: I mean, in addition to being responsible for their Internet marketing...
...and what is your function at Porsche? (or local Porsche dealership)
Just as an FYI... many of us here are not fond of GM products but at the same time we are not blind to what Porsche is doing. To actually have some validity to your statements you may want to look at Porsche's current pricing/racing/model policy before throwing stones at another manufacturer.
I do not quite see your point...
I just prefer to stick to facts and not rumours. If any car (GM or other) should set a new benchmark on the NS I am absolutely fine with that.
However, I prefer to argue based on facts rather than rumours. And it is a fact that the current benchmarks in various price ranges are set by Porsche models.
Forums which include 90% speculation and 10% facts are numerous. Rennteam has a reputation for including 90% facts and 10% speculation
Re: Alas motor, where art thou?
well I think the 90% fact and 10% speculation on this website is kind of wishful thinking from your part...
otherwise we would not be looking at prototypes be and discussing about models to come. and that's one of the main purposes of this site IMO. so I appreciate Jimflat6's enthusiasm about something which is not 100% sure - how boring life would be if we had 100% certainty!!!
otherwise we would not be looking at prototypes be and discussing about models to come. and that's one of the main purposes of this site IMO. so I appreciate Jimflat6's enthusiasm about something which is not 100% sure - how boring life would be if we had 100% certainty!!!
Jul 15, 2005 4:10:46 PM
- SoCalHoosier
- Veteran
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- Loc: California , United States
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Reply to:
MKSGR
Re: Alas motor, where art thou?
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
SoCalHoosier said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
MKSGR said:
What is your function within the GM organization?
P.S.: I mean, in addition to being responsible for their Internet marketing...
...and what is your function at Porsche? (or local Porsche dealership)
Just as an FYI... many of us here are not fond of GM products but at the same time we are not blind to what Porsche is doing. To actually have some validity to your statements you may want to look at Porsche's current pricing/racing/model policy before throwing stones at another manufacturer.
I do not quite see your point...
I just prefer to stick to facts and not rumours. If any car (GM or other) should set a new benchmark on the NS I am absolutely fine with that.
However, I prefer to argue based on facts rather than rumours. And it is a fact that the current benchmarks in various price ranges are set by Porsche models.
Forums which include 90% speculation and 10% facts are numerous. Rennteam has a reputation for including 90% facts and 10% speculation
The point is quite simple...
If we were speculating about a Porsche car doing this or that time... there would be no doubts from you. It is apparent that you follow Porsche quite blindly.
Porsche does what they do because some people will buy their product for the namesake regardless of quality/performance/price. The more loyal to Porsche you are the less they will innovate.
Jul 15, 2005 4:41:43 PM
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MKSGR
- Rennteam Moderator
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- Loc: Germany , Germany
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Re: Alas motor, where art thou?
Quote:
SoCalHoosier said:It is apparent that you follow Porsche quite blindly.
Don't worry about that. I also like and own/owned cars from BMW, Audi, Ferrari. And I already considered the AMG models. In summary, I am fully aware (also on the basis of extensive testing) of the alternatives in the high-performance sector. And based on my experience I am convinced that Porsche does indeed offer the state-of-the-art product when it comes to efficiency and speed.
Sure, it is expensive. But who can answer whether Porsche prices are too low, too high or adequate? I pay their prices as long as they offer the best product. As soon as a competitor demonstrates that the same efficiency and speed can be bought at a lower price I will consider this competitor.
However, I prefer to discuss this one the basis of facts. As per today nobody beats Porsche on the NS (in the respective segment). That is a fact. If this should change some day - fine.
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