Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06 - Page3

Jul 6, 2005 8:01:14 PM

Justin: Veteran; Loc: San Diego, CA, USA; Posts: 979, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 12, 2003; Reply to: Hurst

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

Quote:
Hurst said:
I for one am rooting for the Vette to do well, even though I'd probably never buy one (although I wouldn't mind taking it for a spin). Let me tell you why:

When historic car companies like Porsche and Ferrari corner a market, the percieved notion is that a monopoloized territory (such as the 911 with the 100k dollar sports car) can loose its intention of pushing the technological envelope in newer models. A lot of people complain about the minimal hp increases in the new Porsche lines (although a hp race is hardly an accurate gague of technical innovation), a cheaper, viable competitor will push Porsche to make a better product.

It can only help...anyone who can't see that is being naieve and has a tendency of homerism.

My feelings are very similar. It's only a good thing if other companies are able to produce successful sports cars.

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Jul 6, 2005 8:03:15 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

Quote:
Grant said:
Aside from the Corvair being a Flat-6, it was also air-cooled and it was placed behind the rear axle. Sound familiar?

Rather clever that GM hired Porsche to engineer a line of vehicles with air cooled flat six engines mounted out back in the rear and then Porsche a few years later launching the 911.

Can you spell conspiracy?

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Jul 6, 2005 8:10:32 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Quote:
Grant said:
Aside from the Corvair being a Flat-6, it was also air-cooled and it was placed behind the rear axle. Sound familiar?

Rather clever that GM hired Porsche to engineer a line of vehicles with air cooled flat six engines mounted out back in the rear and then Porsche a few years later launching the 911.

Can you spell conspiracy?

Not only that, the insidious designs presented to Chevy omitted important details to make the cars handle well, so when "Unsafe at Any Speed" was published by Ralph Nader, it almost sunk the company

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Jul 6, 2005 10:42:53 PM

911fan: Senior; Loc: usa; Posts: 554, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 20, 2005; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

Quote:
When historic car companies like Porsche and Ferrari corner a market, the percieved notion is that a monopoloized territory (such as the 911 with the 100k dollar sports car) can loose its intention of pushing the technological envelope in newer models. A lot of people complain about the minimal hp increases in the new Porsche lines (although a hp race is hardly an accurate gague of technical innovation), a cheaper, viable competitor will push Porsche to make a better product.

The HP increases in the new 911's dont bother me but it does seem like they innovate only enough to keep the cars selling and dont do enough experimental or on the edge type of design. Look at the Cayman. What tech advances have been made with it? It has a 996 engine, and mostly Boxster parts.

I mean their big thinig now is the PCCB. I guess thats cool, but havent Carbon/Ceramic brakes been in use on race cars for over 10 years? Porsche acts like they have discovered alchemy or something.

Now the Z06 comes along and can spank anything Porsche makes, except the CGT or maybe the new Turbo, it really should wake the guys in Germany up cuz they have had so little competition over the years.

Dont get me wrong, I love Porsche, but it is frustrating to observe some of their tactics.

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Jul 6, 2005 10:46:30 PM

SoCalHoosier: Veteran; Loc: California , United States; Posts: 896, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 13, 2003; Reply to: Hurst

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

Quote:
Hurst said:
I for one am rooting for the Vette to do well, even though I'd probably never buy one (although I wouldn't mind taking it for a spin). Let me tell you why:

When historic car companies like Porsche and Ferrari corner a market, the percieved notion is that a monopoloized territory (such as the 911 with the 100k dollar sports car) can loose its intention of pushing the technological envelope in newer models. A lot of people complain about the minimal hp increases in the new Porsche lines (although a hp race is hardly an accurate gague of technical innovation), a cheaper, viable competitor will push Porsche to make a better product.

It can only help...anyone who can't see that is being naieve and has a tendency of homerism.

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!! We can only hope to get better Porsches this way!

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Jul 7, 2005 12:08:44 AM

Justin: Veteran; Loc: San Diego, CA, USA; Posts: 979, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 12, 2003; Reply to: SoCalHoosier

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

Not only better Porsches, but better cars from other marques as well, chasing what they and many others perceive to be as the standard.

For example, I love Aston Martin, but hoped they would make a smaller more sporty car for quite some time. Then the AMV8 came. Remains to be seen how well it will perform, but it's certainly a step forward for them.

- J

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Jul 7, 2005 7:05:39 AM

turbolite: Veteran; Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 1012, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 26, 2004; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

well guys, now we have the numbers:

corvette convertible measured in auto motor und sport which came out today:

0-100kmh 5.2s
0-200kmh 17.8s

I think these are not exceptional times for a 400hp car with a relatively light weight. maybe the guy trying to pull away from RC did indeed give his best in the convertible!

I wonder how the z06 with only 100bhp more is supposed to do the 0-200 in 12 something secs as they claim...

cheers

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Jul 7, 2005 7:39:14 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: turbolite

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

Quote:
turbolite said:

I wonder how the z06 with only 100bhp more is supposed to do the 0-200 in 12 something secs as they claim...

cheers

Even with "claimed" 600hp it is unlikely to achieve such acceleration

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Jul 8, 2005 10:09:54 PM

Just_me: Co-Pilot; Loc: EU; Posts: 170, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 16, 2004; Reply to: Justin

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

Next issue of Sportauto, Horst von saurma is doing a supertest of Corvette C6, including laptime around Nordschleife.

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Jul 8, 2005 10:28:25 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Just_me

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

That will be interesting, but I'm really more interested in the Z06...

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Jul 8, 2005 11:18:45 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: Grant

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

Must be a "slow news week" when a thread started on the basis of a rumor on another forum can go to over 5 pages without one single fact to back up the rumor coming to light!

Maybe GM's new ploy; cut advertising budgets due to lousy fiscal results, get cheap publicity by starting rumors on the internet. Seems to work.

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Jul 11, 2005 8:40:37 AM

turbolite: Veteran; Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 1012, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 26, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

same here...

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Jul 13, 2005 6:04:08 PM

Dr J: Newbie; Loc: Vancouver BC Canada; Posts: 1, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 13, 2005; Reply to: fritz

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

Quote:
Must be a "slow news week" when a thread started on the basis of a rumor on another forum can go to over 5 pages without one single fact to back up the rumor coming to light!

Maybe GM's new ploy; cut advertising budgets due to lousy fiscal results, get cheap publicity by starting rumors on the internet. Seems to work.

--------------------
fritz

Here's something that popped up:

http://www.imageark.net/image.php?id=122345

Roughly translates to:
"Straight from his GT1 class victory at Le Mans, Jan Magnusson shortly thereafter at the Nuremburg Ring came up with speed. With the Corvette Z06, should the track record fall - great advertising for the new sports Corvette. However, more than a good 7:40 wasn't in it. The North Loop record for Series Cars is still held by a Donkervoort RS: 7:18:01."

the pot is stirred

1st post - woo hoo

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Jul 13, 2005 6:26:31 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: Dr J

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette C6 Z06

The Z06 did do a 7:40. The GM press release about it will be released on July 25th, the date the car is officially launched.

The coming "Blue Devil" model with another 100hp and 200lbs less weight should do it in even less time.

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Jul 13, 2005 6:27:47 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: Dr J

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

Quote:
Dr J said:

Quote:
Must be a "slow news week" when a thread started on the basis of a rumor on another forum can go to over 5 pages without one single fact to back up the rumor coming to light!

Maybe GM's new ploy; cut advertising budgets due to lousy fiscal results, get cheap publicity by starting rumors on the internet. Seems to work.

--------------------
fritz

Roughly translates to:
"Straight from his GT1 class victory at Le Mans, Jan Magnusson shortly thereafter at the Nuremburg Ring came up with speed. With the Corvette Z06, should the track record fall - great advertising for the new sports Corvette. However, more than a good 7:40 wasn't in it. The North Loop record for Series Cars is still held by a Donkervoort RS: 7:18:01."

the pot is stirred

1st post - woo hoo

Pot re-stirred:

Since when would a Donkervoort be considered a series car?

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Jul 13, 2005 6:28:07 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Dr J

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

I was just about to post the same thing - you beat me to it

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Jul 13, 2005 6:38:30 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

Sadly, the Porsche 911 no longer tops fastest time for a serial production car at the Ring. No more self proclaimed
best in the world of its type.

However Porsche does lead the Ring category for fastest car for best carpeting, seats, highest price sunvisor option
and key fob most likely to self destruct.

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Jul 13, 2005 7:08:59 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

I don't want to rain on the parade but these are GM's claims no? with so much publicity and marketing riding these days on the now popular ring times (didn't used to be that way), I'm a bit hesistant to trust "factory claims", we have seen "special" cars, or special tricks used in ring times by the makers (i.e mercedes, BMW, etc)... I will hold my breath until Saurma gets a go at it, he doesn't let the factory get away with any stuff.

Never the less, the next 997GT3 will top that with a fraction of the HP and on such a HP dependant track (not to mention the 997GT2 times)... sure, it will cost more but then again you also get a lot more. Though the Z06 is a great cheap alternative, but I'm curious to the price of the Z06 here in Europe since the base version is already $100,000

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Jul 13, 2005 7:40:10 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

Carlos, RC stated that dealers in Germany are selling standard C6 Corvettes for below 50,000 Euros. The Z06 has a base price in the US of 65K USD.

AS for the lap times if they are certified by ADAC or whatever organization makes Ring times "official" I
say good job.

If you look at the last Z06 ring times,they were 7.56, and that was the a four year older suspension, 300lbs more weight, 100 less horsepower,substantially smaller brakes, and way smaller and first generation Goodyear runflats.
The new one also has a lower center of gravity,less unsprung weight on each wheel and benefits from 4 years of FIA championshps andthe FIA championship driver at the helm.

Can Sauma beat or match Magnussens time? I doubt it. Magnussen has way more experience in that car both as a Championship winning Corvette racer and as a R&D driver
for GM. has Sauma won LeMans two years in a row in a Corvette? No. Sauma is a terrific driver, but Magnussens vette seat time has to count for something dont you think??

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Jul 13, 2005 7:46:25 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
If you look at the last Z06 ring times,they were 7.56, and that was the a four year older suspension, 300lbs more weight, 100 less horsepower,substantially smaller brakes, and way smaller and first generation Goodyear runflats.
The new one also has a lower center of gravity,less unsprung weight on each wheel and benefits from 4 years of FIA championshps andthe FIA championship driver at the helm.

Jim - I appreciate your enthusiasm, but the C5Z was actually slightly lighter than the C6Z. I also think it's unlikely that the new car has less unsprung/rotating mass on each corner, given that the new brake rotors are much bigger as are the wheels/tires. Anyways, it will be a scorcher

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Jul 13, 2005 7:53:23 PM

iia: Pilot; Loc: Canada; Posts: 342, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 24, 2004; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Can Sauma beat or match Magnussens time? I doubt it. Magnussen has way more experience in that car both as a Championship winning Corvette racer and as a R&D driver
for GM. has Sauma won LeMans two years in a row in a Corvette? No. Sauma is a terrific driver, but Magnussens vette seat time has to count for something dont you think??

If Sauma can do it within 5 seconds of Magnussen's time, it would be a fair factory claim without dirty trick.

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Jul 13, 2005 8:00:27 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Carlos, RC stated that dealers in Germany are selling standard C6 Corvettes for below 50,000 Euros. The Z06 has a base price in the US of 65K USD.

Not in my neck of the woods: 77,950 Euros, and Spain is not of the most expensive european countries in relation to car prices. To give you an idea, a 997 Carrera is 85,000 Euros.

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Jul 13, 2005 8:13:59 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Carlos, RC stated that dealers in Germany are selling standard C6 Corvettes for below 50,000 Euros. The Z06 has a base price in the US of 65K USD.

Not in my neck of the woods: 77,950 Euros, and Spain is not of the most expensive european countries in relation to car prices. To give you an idea, a 997 Carrera is 85,000 Euros.

Yeah, that's a big difference. Here, the C6 is $43k and the 997 is $70k

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Jul 13, 2005 9:28:18 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

It could all be a pile. Its just nice to see some enthusiasm
for visceral speed from a manufacturer. Id be just as happy if a Lada hit that lap time.

Personally, until GM refines their cars "feeling"; its combination of steering, brakes, suspension, gear shift
and gas pedal, I wouldnt buy one.

They might score the killer lap time, but for everyday use
they need to look at the whole man machine interface design
thing.

Porsche has that magic nailed. Corvette hasnt discovered that combo of sohphistication in driver dynamices yet, but, they can turn in a killer lap time Im sure.

Its pretty much like a Chimp on stilts running a 7 minute mile.

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Jul 13, 2005 9:43:26 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

Whats true is that the more competition the better, more stimulated Porsche will be, the better products we will get.

And the more popular the ring gets as a "measure" for people from both sides of the pond for production sportcars the better becuase the more concentrated on real performance and less on paper specs and straigth-line driving makers will have to be... look at Corvette in the past and Corvette today what a turn around they have done in philosophy, its comendable IMO.

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Jul 13, 2005 9:43:42 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Personally, until GM refines their cars "feeling"; its combination of steering, brakes, suspension, gear shift
and gas pedal, I wouldnt buy one.

It is that combination of qualities which makes Porsches faster than a Corvette. Facts are not changed by repeating speculative nonsense again and again. Could you please wait until official numbers are available before you continue to speculate? Thanks.

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Jul 14, 2005 1:16:30 AM

SoCalHoosier: Veteran; Loc: California , United States; Posts: 896, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 13, 2003; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

Sounds like you already made up your mind.

Sorry I love Porsches but I'm not a blind loyalist when it comes to a car manufacturer fleecing the consumer for 40K profit per car built.

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Jul 14, 2005 2:18:09 AM

911fan: Senior; Loc: usa; Posts: 554, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 20, 2005; Reply to: SoCalHoosier

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

wholeheartedly agree.

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Jul 14, 2005 3:10:30 AM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Personally, until GM refines their cars "feeling"; its combination of steering, brakes, suspension, gear shift
and gas pedal, I wouldnt buy one.

It is that combination of qualities which makes Porsches faster than a Corvette. Facts are not changed by repeating speculative nonsense again and again. Could you please wait until official numbers are available before you continue to speculate? Thanks.

Its that combination of qualities, higher local market price here.. for a slower car makes one think?? WTF????
Buy some pretty BASF paint or buy a 505hp vette for go
power.

No way would I pay Carrera S money for a std C6 vette,
(as in the the Spanish market), but if its Carrera money for performance WAY beyond a Carrera S, its good to be open minded. Precision feel or not.

I wouldnt feel so SHANKED if Porsche tossed in the X51 power kit,the LSD as it costs them NO MORE to assemble the car with that stuff in the first place!!!!!!!

Oh, why lookeee here, its the Dry Sump on the new Z06.
mmmmmm seen one on a 997?

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Jul 14, 2005 3:14:27 AM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Exhaust Ring

hehehehehe

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Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

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Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

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Re: 7:40 Nurburging for Corvette 'Blue Devil' not C6 Z06

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Re: Exhaust Ring

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