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69bossnine said:
Lame point Grant. In 1996 Clinton only got 49%, and in 1992 he got 43%. U.S. presidential elections RARELY pull a 50%+ majority for the winner when an independent, or green party, or reform party, or what-have-you sticks their nose into the fray. Don't let facts get in the way of your rhetoric guys (sarcasm...)
Speaking of worthless and garbage rhetoric, the whole "The U.S. is just interested in the oil" thing is a laughable and ignorant-of-the-facts notion. It's a convenient sound byte to feed to those who don't bother to dig further.
First: Clinton actuallky WON the elections. Both of them. According to the democratic principles you have to get the most votes.
According to the american principles two elections ago, you dont need to get the most votes. You only need some 18th century voting system (faulty ballots) and a brother who is governor in the state you need to win to become president.
Before you start: I dont think ANY president get to be president without pulling dirty tricks, but this one was so thick even OJ Simpson must have thought to himself "howw did he get away with that??".
Regarding the invasion of Iraq:
I believe the US + allies did all the right things for all the wrong reasons.
Oil. Nothing more, nothing less. Oil is money, oil is power, oil is necessary.
Couple that with the number one way to get the economy going in a country:
War. And there you have it.
Perhaps you have heard this already, but here's a little story that popped up in "60 minutes" on CBS. It's about a reporter who told the story of Bush's former treasury secretary. The one Bush fired and the one that told the story of a president looking for an excuse to remove Saddam.
I'm not saying this is the absolute truth. Maybe this secretary of treasury is a scorned ex-employee, but it doenst sound like it.
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Check this
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1023485.htm
or read on.
"A Man who would not sell out: Paul O'Neill
As the history of the Presidency of George W. Bush unfolds, a new leaf has open exposing a center of secrets that are not so pretty:
The man at the top is not in control.
Sadam was always the target even before 9/11- and his oil fields were to be divvied up by we, the conquering nation.
This comes from revelations from a new book from his own hand picked former Treasury Secretary.
In this book by a Wall Street reporter, Mr O'Neill' gives his account of his two years as Treasury secretary, Add to the public fanfare a series of interviews over the weekend, is a startling tale of an administration nominally led by a disengaged figurehead president but driven by a "praetorian guard" of hardline rightwingers led by vice president Dick Cheney, ready to bend circumstances and facts to fit their political agenda
He quoted from a Pentagon document entitled "Foreign Suitors For Iraqi Oilfield Contracts," which, he said, talks about carving the country's fuel reserves up between the world's oil companies. It talks about contractors around the world from ... 30, 40 countries and which ones have what intentions on oil in Iraq," Mr Suskind said.
Who is Paul O'Neill?
Mr. O'Neill served as Chairman and CEO of Alcoa from 1987 until 1999. He retired as chairman at the end of 2000. In 1977, O'Neill joined International Paper Company as Vice President for Planning, serving in that capacity until 1985.
Between 1967 and 1977, O'Neill served at the U.S. Office of Management and Budget (OMB). He joined OMB in 1967, and was deputy director of OMB from 1974 to 1977. He began his public service as a computer systems analyst with the US Veterans Administration, where he served from 1961 to 1966.
Secretary O'Neill also served as Director of the American Enterprise Institute, served on the Boards of Directors of Eastman Kodak Company, Lucent Technologies, and the Rand Corporation.
He obtained his Bachelor's Degree in Economic from Fresno State College in California and his Master's Degree in Public Administration from Indiana University. He and his wife, Nancy, have three daughters, one son and twelve grandchildren. Mr. O'Neill was born in St. Louis, Missouri, on December 4, 1935."
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On a personal note I believe we (the US + allies) should stay in Iraq.
The way to defeat terrorism is NOT thru war, but thru education.
Teaching, enlightening, educating people.
The more people know, the less they fear and the more they can resist extremists with their medieva thinking.
Democracy is not always perfect. Far from it. But it's the best we've got right now. Spread that and we may defeat terrorism.
I see the US as our ally. No doubt at all. And no doubt we should support our friend and allies as best we can.
But we should also tell them when they feck up and do things that are out of line.
My 2 and a half cents