Crown

Would you like to see my bill?  Off peak plans allow for lower costs between  midnight and six am. Tesla automatically charges based on a schedule you give it. I would be happy to show all the numbers. What your article proves anyway and clearly is that it does not cost 10x what I am seeing.  But this is what they needed to do in order to exceed fuel costs. No mention of oil changes or maintenance. 
There are also dozens of charging stations near my home which are by hospitals and malls where charging is totally free. Find me a free gas station please. We even had business complain and request free gas if free power was being given away. You can’t make this stuff up. 
Btw we also have free parking and complimentary valet parking everywhere!  
 

when I first started charging three plus years ago it cost me a penny a mile in power. Not that the rate increase is a real pain.  
update. I just spoke with Evergy, my local power company, because rate info by kWh was hard to find   I am paying $.04 per kWh from midnight to 6 am so it really does cost 💲 1 per 100 miles folks.  

Now imagine if you had solar panels and a few tesla destination chargers for folks driving by - you could charge free and charge money. They sell destination chargers by the dozen, they show up in cars as charge locations and billing is automated.  Something I am planning to do at my lake house where there are lots of rental homes without charging but Tesla travelers who can park and charge.  Each charger is about $400. 
 

Is there a setting on that Tesla to improve one’s disposition?  Seems like it does everything else. 

In Germany Volkswagen sold 3% more cars than Tesla in 2023. No other car manufacturer has sold even 50% of the cars like VW and Tesla in Germany. 16% of all new cars were EVs

Now add the other Volkswagen Group EV products into that number and Volkswagen has a commanding lead over Tesla.  However, Geely and BYD are also gaining market share in the German market.  The Chinese automakers will become a larger threat to the German, and the rest of Europe, auto industry versus Tesla in the next few years. 

CGX car nut:

Is there a setting on that Tesla to improve one’s disposition?  Seems like it does everything else. 

Indeed it does that too. Can you not tell how happy I am with the car.  Trying to point out this to you guys. Perhaps something is not quite right with people’s disposition who believe it costs more to go 100 miles in an EV. 
How do guys, smart I am assuming, get so lost in basic facts and simply focus on personal attacks?  Not impressed by much posted here. 

CGX car nut:

Now add the other Volkswagen Group EV products into that number and Volkswagen has a commanding lead over Tesla.  However, Geely and BYD are also gaining market share in the German market.  The Chinese automakers will become a larger threat to the German, and the rest of Europe, auto industry versus Tesla in the next few years. 

Lol. Dreams help I suppose. good luck VW. 
Do keep in mind that VW has been around a long time. Kinda funny you are comparing them to a virtual startup numbers wise. A few years ago you all doubted they could build 10k cars in a year.  
This thread is amazing. So much fun to watch.  

Leawood911:

CGX car nut:

Now add the other Volkswagen Group EV products into that number and Volkswagen has a commanding lead over Tesla.  However, Geely and BYD are also gaining market share in the German market.  The Chinese automakers will become a larger threat to the German, and the rest of Europe, auto industry versus Tesla in the next few years. 

Lol. Dreams help I suppose. good luck VW. 
Do keep in mind that VW has been around a long time. Kinda funny you are comparing them to a virtual startup numbers wise. A few years ago you all doubted they could build 10k cars in a year.  
This thread is amazing. So much fun to watch.  

Congratulations on another nonsensical posting.  Asian based automakers are a greater threat to European automaker hegemony than Tesla over the next decade.  The same holds true for U.S. based automakers.  The only limiting factor is limited consumer acceptance of EVs even as regulators set ICE sunset dates for most of the industrialized world. There’s already cracks forming as automakers are starting to push back on the overly aggressive EV targets.   

I have to add that the Tesla home (destination?) level 2 EVSE "wall charger boxes" are VASTLY superior in function and flexibility (not to mention price) than those offered by Porsche.

My wife's 2018 Model S P100D uses a Gen 2 HPWC that always just works.  I recently added 3 more (from eBay) to a power-sharing, networked arrangement in our garage.  It makes 19.2 kW available at any of the 4 if used individually.  It shares evenly if more than one EVSE is in use.  If her Model S is charging at the same time as the Taycan, they share the the mains circuit both get 9.6 kW.  And so on.

Power sharing allows fast charging, if needed, for one vehicle without having to install a larger electrical service to accommodate more than one BEV in one's garage.

I have one 100A (240V) circuit (80A continuous) in my garage dedicated to BEV charging and can accommodate up to 4 BEVs charging at once.  1 BEV = 80A max   2 BEV = 40A max  3 BEV = 26A max 4 BEV = 20A max.  Perfect for my family when my daughter's family is visiting and everybody needs some charge overnight.

Also, the Porsche EVSE requires all sorts of time to make up its mind whether it's going to start charging when connected.  It is so aggravating to wait on.  The Tesla EVSE box starts charging immediately when plugged in to the Taycan.

All that is required to use the Tesla EVSE with the Taycan is an adapter ($100 eBay) that accepts the Tesla NACS plug and turns it into a J1772 plug.  Works like a champ.

Tesla has had the EVSE game worked out for over a decade.  Porsche seemed to not learn much when studying the competition when entering the BEV market.

Mike

918 Spyder + 992 Dakar + 992 GT3 Touring + Taycan GTS ST + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T

Oh yeah, the Porsche charger is one of the worse there is. Especially after they nerf them to half the current by default.

The Ford charger that came with my Lightning is just about the best out there. It can be wired for bi-direcitonal usage but since I already have a generator that function isn't needed. It is just wired as a 19.2kW 80A charger, so the Lightning can get lightning fast charging at full 19.2kW speed. 

Mach E and Taycan can only accept 48A max, so they can only take 11.5kW. Newer Taycans which spec the onboard 19.2kW will get full power.

Think Teslas are all limited to 48A charging still or they did a software update to allow for 80A now?

The Ford charger is mostly for my EVs, my hybrids uses my 40A Flo X5 charger as the extra power really doesn't matter for small batteries. 

Whoopsy:

Oh yeah, the Porsche charger is one of the worse there is. Especially after they nerf them to half the current by default.

The Ford charger that came with my Lightning is just about the best out there. It can be wired for bi-direcitonal usage but since I already have a generator that function isn't needed. It is just wired as a 19.2kW 80A charger, so the Lightning can get lightning fast charging at full 19.2kW speed. 

Mach E and Taycan can only accept 48A max, so they can only take 11.5kW. Newer Taycans which spec the onboard 19.2kW will get full power.

Think Teslas are all limited to 48A charging still or they did a software update to allow for 80A now?

The Ford charger is mostly for my EVs, my hybrids uses my 40A Flo X5 charger as the extra power really doesn't matter for small batteries. 

 

Taycans are 48A max in standard form.  My Taycan GTS ST has the 20kW 80A option now available installed.

Mike

918 Spyder + 992 Dakar + 992 GT3 Touring + Taycan GTS ST + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T

Whilst the Tesla Supercharger network is more functional than other vendors, other aspects of the product isn’t as well developed.  Once the human interface shortcomings of Autopilot rears it’s ugly head. https://electrek.co/2023/08/09/damning-footage-shows-tesla-vehicles-autopilot-crashing-into-police/

CGX car nut:

Whilst the Tesla Supercharger network is more functional than other vendors, other aspects of the product isn’t as well developed.  Once the human interface shortcomings of Autopilot rears it’s ugly head. https://electrek.co/2023/08/09/damning-footage-shows-tesla-vehicles-autopilot-crashing-into-police/

The FSD/autopilot aspect is a feature in which my wife has no interest.  She doesn't even use cruise control.  She loves the Model S and declines to drive my Taycan.  She's driven laps at Mid-Ohio in the old days, so she's a bit like "the little old lady from Pasadena" and uses the massive electric torque in traffic.

--

Mike

918 Spyder + 992 Dakar + 992 GT3 Touring + Taycan GTS ST + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T

As long as she is happy…

W8MM:

Whoopsy:

Oh yeah, the Porsche charger is one of the worse there is. Especially after they nerf them to half the current by default.

The Ford charger that came with my Lightning is just about the best out there. It can be wired for bi-direcitonal usage but since I already have a generator that function isn't needed. It is just wired as a 19.2kW 80A charger, so the Lightning can get lightning fast charging at full 19.2kW speed. 

Mach E and Taycan can only accept 48A max, so they can only take 11.5kW. Newer Taycans which spec the onboard 19.2kW will get full power.

Think Teslas are all limited to 48A charging still or they did a software update to allow for 80A now?

The Ford charger is mostly for my EVs, my hybrids uses my 40A Flo X5 charger as the extra power really doesn't matter for small batteries. 

 

Taycans are 48A max in standard form.  My Taycan GTS ST has the 20kW 80A option now available installed.

Ah, you got that retrofitted. 

Whoopsy:

Taycans are 48A max in standard form.  My Taycan GTS ST has the 20kW 80A option now available installed.

 

Ah, you got that retrofitted. 

 

Nick,

No, I ordered it when I configured the car.  It was a configurator selection.

--

Mike

918 Spyder + 992 Dakar + 992 GT3 Touring + Taycan GTS ST + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T

CGX car nut:

Leawood911:

CGX car nut:

Now add the other Volkswagen Group EV products into that number and Volkswagen has a commanding lead over Tesla.  However, Geely and BYD are also gaining market share in the German market.  The Chinese automakers will become a larger threat to the German, and the rest of Europe, auto industry versus Tesla in the next few years. 

Lol. Dreams help I suppose. good luck VW. 
Do keep in mind that VW has been around a long time. Kinda funny you are comparing them to a virtual startup numbers wise. A few years ago you all doubted they could build 10k cars in a year.  
This thread is amazing. So much fun to watch.  

Congratulations on another nonsensical posting.  Asian based automakers are a greater threat to European automaker hegemony than Tesla over the next decade.  The same holds true for U.S. based automakers.  The only limiting factor is limited consumer acceptance of EVs even as regulators set ICE sunset dates for most of the industrialized world. There’s already cracks forming as automakers are starting to push back on the overly aggressive EV targets.   

Is VW making any profit yet on their EVs or are they losing money on each one like Ford and GM?  I wonder who makes the most profit for each EV sold?  Just a non sensical question. Of course. 
Could explain why automakers are pushing back on converting?  Hmmm

There is a reason why the other car makers don't actually need their EV division to be self profitable, they have other products that consumers WANTED to buy and make up the revenue and profit. 

Consumers aren't committed 100% to buying EVs, so why should regular car makers only make EVs? That would be a stupid business decision to leave money on the table. 

KFC aren't just selling chicken, they sell fries too and other stuff, cause the consumers WANTED those other stuff. How stupid would it be when you head to KFC and ask for a combo and they like sorry we don't sell fries, we only sell chicken. And no, you don't even get a drink, just chicken. 

And I dug deeper into the 'plug war' in North America. 

The headline everywhere is that the Tesla plug won with Ford, GM saying they will adopt it. And most people just leave it at that.

But did Tesla actually 'win'? All the advance high voltage cars are staying with CCS, so only the last gen 400V class cars are moving over.

Gets even more interesting in the fine details. 

Tesla has agreed to give up their patents, well relinquish control of them at least, to the SAE, that's a require step in order for the plug to become an industrial standard, which Elon has named the North American Charging Standard, NACS for short.

But that's only the physical plug, and Tesla had to quietly modified the design slightly in order to support higher voltage, i.e. more than 400V, to try and entice the advance EVs to adopt the plug.

And here comes the juicy bits. Tesla is 'modifying', well 'adopting', or 'updating', depends on how one wants to see it, their communication protocol to the CCS standard. The NACS will only speak CCS, not Tesla. No more propriety walled garden for Tesla.

Using CCS as the communication protocol is a major concession from Elon, he HAS to adopt the industrial standard communication protocol in order for NACS to become an industrial standard plug. He really doesn't have a choice, every other car makers are on the rectified CCS standard, it's easier for one manufacturer to change than everyone else change for one company. Now with the standardize charging communication protocol, every other EV maker can just produce a simple physical plug adapter for them to use the Tesla plug. 

From now on, every non-Tesla EV fast charger network will have to compete against the almost bulletproof Tesla network, which means they will all need to step up their maintenance game to fix broken chargers and such. That was the biggest knock on the current CCS system, chargers don't always work and when they actually do work, they may not supply the stated power to the car. This is a big win for consumers. 

This 'war' just for the North America market, in Europe Tesla already uses the CCS standard as dictated by the EU, and the European physical plugs had always been different than the North America plugs anyways because of voltage and phase.

So who actually won the plug war in North America? Surprise! It's actually CCS and not Tesla. 

Tesla won the physical plug battle but loss the charging standard war. 

So Tesla will not be virtually printing money by having everyone able to use their superchargers?  Every single concession you mention sounds like a smart way to accomplish keeping Teslas without modification and selling tons of electric power, perhaps with solar panels.  You really have a desperate need to find flaws in everything Elon does. Just think about for a second. You are too smart to not see the light eventually. 
Not to mention having to charge your Ford in a Tesla parking lot/ commercial. Who says Elon does not advertise?  

Whoopsy:

There is a reason why the other car makers don't actually need their EV division to be self profitable, they have other products that consumers WANTED to buy and make up the revenue and profit. 

Consumers aren't committed 100% to buying EVs, so why should regular car makers only make EVs? That would be a stupid business decision to leave money on the table. 

KFC aren't just selling chicken, they sell fries too and other stuff, cause the consumers WANTED those other stuff. How stupid would it be when you head to KFC and ask for a combo and they like sorry we don't sell fries, we only sell chicken. And no, you don't even get a drink, just chicken. 

 

 

Wow. That is some fried reasoning 

Now I want KFC…

Leawood911:

So Tesla will not be virtually printing money by having everyone able to use their superchargers?  Every single concession you mention sounds like a smart way to accomplish keeping Teslas without modification and selling tons of electric power, perhaps with solar panels.  You really have a desperate need to find flaws in everything Elon does. Just think about for a second. You are too smart to not see the light eventually. 
Not to mention having to charge your Ford in a Tesla parking lot/ commercial. Who says Elon does not advertise?  

Huh? Wha are you on?

I don't mind going to a Tesla charger when the need rises. The Fords can't take super fast speed charging offered by Electrified America/Canada anyways and the Superchargers's slower speed is plenty good enough. Unfortunately the cable will be too short to reach the charge port in the Lightning, unless of course I park sideways blocking a whole block of chargers. 

Don't think I ever said anything bad about Tesla's Supercharger network ever. And now that they have to go with industrial standard protocol means the availability of fast chargers greatly increases for everyone, still not enough though. The existing CCS networks will now have to compete against Tesla, which set the gold standard for reliability. 

I had always said modern EVs have more than enough range no matter the efficiency or the brand, it's the lack of chargers that prevent more people from buying. 

Not sure if anyone cared to watch the whole 30 mins of Schmee. 

The Coles Notes version is that the charging infrastructure is basically broken. 

The connector side of the problem will not be an issue in a few years when the Tesla plug becomes the standard plug. 

The problem that remains will be the network side. In the current CCS side of things there are a few companies operating different networks, soon Tesla will be added to the CCS side of the network to compete for business. But none of them talk to each other, nor do they offer simple pay as you go charging. Everyone wants to weaponize customer data for competitive advantage and requires sign-ups before permitting charging. Such problem doesn't exists in the petrol world, one just need cash, or a credit card, to go to any gas station to pump petrol. imagine each brand of gas station needs a separate customer account and your Shell account doesn't allow you to pump gas at a Chevron or any other. That's what's happening in the EV world. 

As soon as I saw the title it screamed clickbait to me. He’s been overly critical of the electric car industry, to the point where it seems like he’s not really giving it a fair chance.

Enmanuel:

As soon as I saw the title it screamed clickbait to me. He’s been overly critical of the electric car industry, to the point where it seems like he’s not really giving it a fair chance.

Actually I do agreed with him, as a multiple EV owner.

The CCS charging network IS a big mess. Every network needs their own membership, I have like 6 apps on my phone just for charging, that's stupid. Why can't I just use ApplePay or credit card and be done with it like at a gas station?

Then there is the charging speed. The fastest 350kW charger are few and far between, most are of the 150kW kind right now and that's simply not good enough for CCS cars, I mean they are good neon for Teslas but definitely not for the 800V class cars like the Taycan and the Hyundai/KIA/Lucid etc. With the Tesla chargers opening up for other EVs. it will be interesting to see if they can handle the load of fast charging EVs like the Audi e-Tron and others, they they put a bigger continuous load than the Tesla cars, Tesla cars only do peak advertised charging for a couple minutes then rapidly ramp down after all, and the e-Tron literally sustained the whole high power mode from beginning to the end.

Unifying the plug to the Tesla plug is a good start, and moving Tesla to the CCS communication standard is another, but honestly, the CCS side still haven't figure out how to talk to the car properly, many times a car is plugged in but the charger can't 'see' the car, that's a big problem. No such problem with the Tesla charger talking to the Tesla car however.

What the EV world needs is STANDARDIZED charging and payment. First step is done with the plug, now they need to do the payment side. 

Charger maintenance is also another issue, many man times chargers are literally out of order, either frozen up, unpowered, or physically damaged. I have seen plenty. 

“DOJ, SEC Investigate Tesla Over Secret Glass House Project” (WSJ)

Prosecutors are investigating Tesla’s use of funds on a project described internally as a house for Elon Musk

(30 August 2023)

The U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York sought information about personal benefits paid to Tesla CEO Elon Musk, and a project known internally at Tesla as Project 42.

Manhattan federal prosecutors are investigating use of company funds on a secret project that had been described internally as a house for Chief Executive Elon Musk, people familiar with the matter said.

[…]

Link: https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/tesla-elon-musk-glass-house-doj-sec-investigation-c723166b

X marks the spot. DOJ and SEC were not interested in Musk until he purchased Twitter.  Now he is accused of hiring too many Americans at SpaceX, a major defense contractor and this.  Welcome to the end.  

The opening of Elon Musk’s eyes. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12467123/Elon-Musk-transgender-daughter-Vivian-Crossroads-Santa-Monica.html