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    Re: Tesla

    The Autopilot and FSD combo would fail an American driving test, literally easiest place to get a driver's license,.........

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:
    RC:

    Very honest “review”…sorry but I would NEVER EVER trust this system right now.

    https://youtu.be/9nF0K2nJ7N8

     

    And he is already a Tesla owner, that's his own Plaid. and if I remembered correctly this isn't even his first Tesla.

    I wonder if someone will say he is spreading fake news or FUD or whatever because he isn't singing unconditional praises for Tesla. Smiley

    He even has the ceramic brake on his Tesla, so Tesla considers him a "special" customer.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla

    Any chance you guys looked into the Magic Mercedes system?  That level 3 system?  It requires a car to be leading it. Will not even work if you are the only one on the road. It is limited to 40 mph, it will not change lanes, when it requires attention and the driver does not respond it comes to a stop in the lane it is in.  It only cost $5k, will only work in Nevada maybe in CA and only on certain stretches of highway (where you must go more than 45). Oh and it does not like sunny conditions, rain, snow and roads if they have a bank in the turn.  Perfect system. Oh and cars will be delivered at the end of 2023. 
    What a huge lead indeed. 
    My point is people who tell you Tesla is not a good car are not doing you any favors only the other car companies. 
    I have seen plenty of other cars. I don’t need to buy them to understand how they work and if they are competitive. Seriously strange to me that one can buy so many cars and be so wrong about them and keep doing it. 


    Re: Tesla

    “Musk Faces SEC Probe for Role in TesIa Self-Driving Claims”

    • CEO scrutiny part of regulator probe into company statements
    • Investigation shaping up as latest clash between Musk and SEC

    (27 January 2023)

    US regulators are investigating Elon Musk’s role in shaping TesIa lnc’s self-driving car claims, the latest effort by watchdogs to scrutinize the actions of the world’s second-richest person.

    The review is part of an ongoing Securities and Exchange Commission (“SEC”) probe of the company’s statements about its Autopilot driver-assistance system, according to a person with knowledge of the matter who asked not to be identified discussing aspects of the investigation that haven’t been disclosed. 

    SEC Investigating Elon Musk's Self-Driving Claims

    As Tesla’s chief executive officer, the veracity of Musk’s comments carry particular heft under the agency’s rules. The SEC declined to comment. Musk and his attorney Alex Spiro didn’t respond to requests for comment.

    Musk is already clashing with the SEC on several fronts. But the regulator’s Autopilot review directly touches on a business priority that Musk has singled out as crucial to Tesla’s future.  

    SEC officials are weighing whether Musk may have inappropriately made forward-looking statements, said the person. An investigation by the agency’s enforcement unit doesn’t always lead to consequences, but can result in lawsuits, fines or other civil penalties for companies and executives.

    It couldn’t be determined specifically which of Musk’s statements or activities about Autopilot have garnered the attention of the SEC. 

    Tesla’s driver-assistance technology has for years been a focus of Musk. He personally directed the creation of a 2016 video that may have exaggerated the technology’s capabilities. The video’s promises of eventual fully autonomous, hands-free driving functionality have yet to materialize. 

    In a behind-the-scenes glimpse into Musk’s thinking about the Autopilot video, he told Tesla staff in internal emails in 2016, “I will be telling the world that this is what the car *will* be able to do.” Musk continued, “not that it can do this upon receipt.”

    Tesla beats out its competitors on self-driving vehicles because “the car is upgradeable to autonomy,” Musk said during a Twitter Spaces conversation in December. “That’s something that no other car company can do,” he added.

    Active Investigations

    Separately, Tesla is also facing scrutiny from safety watchdogs over its automated-driving systems and is poised for its first jury trial over a driver fatality blamed on Autopilot. The US Justice Department has also been looking into whether the electric-car maker’s public comments about the feature have been misleading.

    The US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has two active investigations into whether Autopilot is defective. The agency upgraded the first — focused on how Tesla Autopilot handles crash scenes with first-responder vehicles — in June of last year. It initiated the other probe — pertaining to sudden braking — four months earlier.

    The Tesla CEO has been for years fighting the SEC over fallout from his infamous tweet that he had secured funding to take Tesla private. 

    He defended that 2018 missive this week in court in San Francisco where investors have alleged that he committed securities fraud. Musk said he believed at the time that he had financial backing from wealthy investors and the Saudi government...

    Source: Bloomberg


    Re: Tesla

    New Tesla Model Y owner experiences steering wheel attachment failure days after taking delivery.  Must take a simple OTA to fix this little inconvenience.  https://insideevs.com/news/640947/tesla-model-y-steering-falls-off/


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:

    Any chance you guys looked into the Magic Mercedes system?  That level 3 system?  It requires a car to be leading it. Will not even work if you are the only one on the road. It is limited to 40 mph, it will not change lanes, when it requires attention and the driver does not respond it comes to a stop in the lane it is in.  It only cost $5k, will only work in Nevada maybe in CA and only on certain stretches of highway (where you must go more than 45). Oh and it does not like sunny conditions, rain, snow and roads if they have a bank in the turn.  Perfect system. Oh and cars will be delivered at the end of 2023. 
    What a huge lead indeed. 
    My point is people who tell you Tesla is not a good car are not doing you any favors only the other car companies. 
    I have seen plenty of other cars. I don’t need to buy them to understand how they work and if they are competitive. Seriously strange to me that one can buy so many cars and be so wrong about them and keep doing it. 

    So sad that someone like you is so stubborn and ill informed. Smiley

    Mercedes new level 3 system is authorized up to 130 kph, which would be sufficient for the US and it does not require a lead car. You have old information. Unfortunately, in Germany (first country worldwide with level 3 authorization up to 130 kph), this system is only authorized (so far) for Autobahn use only.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla

    He hangs around with Tesla people too much. And he got infected with the idea that everyone is against Tesla and Elon. 🤷🏻‍♂️

    Got the ostrich syndrome where they just stick their head in the ground and pretend everything is ok with Tesla and nothing can get inside. 


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    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    He hangs around with Tesla people too much. And he got infected with the idea that everyone is against Tesla and Elon. 🤷🏻‍♂️

    Got the ostrich syndrome where they just stick their head in the ground and pretend everything is ok with Tesla and nothing can get inside. 

    You try so hard to make this some type of personal thing?  Perhaps it is that for you. I clarify what I understand to be my user experience and your only response is that I am somehow infected. That is some pretty sick envy and it’s not pretty. Please do explain how Tesla brainwashes so many customers into being happy with their product AND why does it bother you so much?  


    Re: Tesla

    https://youtu.be/smbRkqRRu28
    here is the source of my information. 
    the headline is it is geofenced.  The rest is funny too. I certainly hope it can go faster in Germany and does not require lead traffic. Someone should tell all this to the Mercedes engineers giving demo drives. 
     


    Re: Tesla

    The Tesla people can diss on Mercedes all they want, yet it still won't change the fact that Mercedes I the first car company to get level 3 certified, a level Tesla has yet to achieved. Even the much hyped FSD is still only level 2 automation, a more advanced version of Advanced Cruise Control period.

    Honestly, if you guys think the cruise control function on Teslas are so great, why none of you ever asked or pressure Elon to get then certified? You don't think Elon wants that bragging rights? Of course he does, but he also knows his system won't pass the certification. 

    You Tesla people are really a weird bunch, Tesla trail blazed on the advance cruise control stuff, and now that there is finally competition, instead of cheering for Tesla to do better and regain the lead, all you guys do is dissing on someone else's achievements. 

    That's like Toyota, after losing to Porsche multiple years at Le Mans, start dissing Porsche for lucking out instead of trying to improve their own car to be more reliable and more competitive the following year. 


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    Re: Tesla

    RC:
    Leawood911:

    Any chance you guys looked into the Magic Mercedes system?  That level 3 system?  It requires a car to be leading it. Will not even work if you are the only one on the road. It is limited to 40 mph, it will not change lanes, when it requires attention and the driver does not respond it comes to a stop in the lane it is in.  It only cost $5k, will only work in Nevada maybe in CA and only on certain stretches of highway (where you must go more than 45). Oh and it does not like sunny conditions, rain, snow and roads if they have a bank in the turn.  Perfect system. Oh and cars will be delivered at the end of 2023. 
    What a huge lead indeed. 
    My point is people who tell you Tesla is not a good car are not doing you any favors only the other car companies. 
    I have seen plenty of other cars. I don’t need to buy them to understand how they work and if they are competitive. Seriously strange to me that one can buy so many cars and be so wrong about them and keep doing it. 

    So sad that someone like you is so stubborn and ill informed. Smiley

    Mercedes new level 3 system is authorized up to 130 kph, which would be sufficient for the US and it does not require a lead car. You have old information. Unfortunately, in Germany (first country worldwide with level 3 authorization up to 130 kph), this system is only authorized (so far) for Autobahn use only.

    But as far as I have read it is limited to 40 mph and it needs a car in front.
    Heise on Level 3


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    AM


    Re: Tesla

    Honestly compare the two systems. You know better than that.  Congratulations to Mercedes for getting level 3 certification.  Level 3 simply requires you pay attention to the car rather than the surroundings.  You still need to be able to take over.  Personally I think level 2 is much safer from that perspective and the level 2 Tesla features are far more advanced than the Mercedes functionality.  It is not Tesla people I base my opinions on - it is the Mercedes engineer describing the system.  I don’t see a path for a geofenced solution to ever achieve level 5. Meanwhile the Tesla is performing level 5 tasks and maneuvers while prudently requiring attention.  ( note nobody is complain about how risky level 3 is). FSD will be a much more capable and mature solution in the long run.  It nothing else FSD is capable of judging distances and objects just fine and does so as a safety net in all of their cars all of the time for zero extra cost.  And yes OTA updates do continue to make the car safer as a direct result of continuous investment in FSD.  I don’t see any existing Mercedes cars get any of these level 3 features.  I can make my four year old car take part in the beta program with a push of a button. Nice extra $200 for Tesla per month from each and every car built in the last six years.  You love to make fun of OTA, aka thorn in someone’s side. 
     

    I am assuming that once another car company can get OTA to work right it will be the greatest thing ever.  FSD was always the work of the Tesla Devil but now that Mercedes seems to have conquered the complex problem it is amazing tech - even if the truth is pretty obscure.  

     


    Re: Tesla

    “U.S. Justice Department asks Tesla for documents on driver assist systems”

    (31 January 2023)

    Tesla Inc said on Tuesday it has received requests from the U.S. Department of Justice for documents related to the electric vehicle company's driver assist system, Autopilot, and its "Full-Self Driving" feature.

    TesIa lnc 10-K Filing FY2022

    Certain Investigations and Other Matters

    “We receive requests for information from regulators and governmental authorities, such as the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, the National Transportation Safety Board, the SEC, the Department of Justice (“DOJ”) and various state, federal, and international agencies. We routinely cooperate with such regulatory and governmental requests, including subpoenas, formal and informal requests and other investigations and inquiries.

    For example, the SEC had issued subpoenas to Tesla in connection with Elon Musk’s prior statement that he was considering taking Tesla private. The take-private investigation was resolved and closed with a settlement entered into with the SEC in September 2018 and as further clarified in April 2019 in an amendment. The SEC also has periodically issued subpoenas to us seeking information on our governance processes around compliance with the SEC settlement, as amended.

    Separately, the company has received requests from the DOJ for documents related to Tesla’s Autopilot and FSD features. To our knowledge no government agency in any ongoing investigation has concluded that any wrongdoing occurred. We cannot predict the outcome or impact of any ongoing matters. Should the government decide to pursue an enforcement action, there exists the possibility of a material adverse impact on our business, results of operation, prospects, cash flows and financial position.

    We are also subject to various other legal proceedings and claims that arise from the normal course of business activities. If an unfavorable ruling or development were to occur, there exists the possibility of a material adverse impact on our business, results of operations, prospects, cash flows, financial position and brand.”

    Link: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000095017023001409/tsla-20221231.htm

    Sources told Reuters in October last year that the company was under criminal investigation in the United States over claims its electric vehicles can drive themselves.

    Source: Reuters


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:

    Honestly compare the two systems. You know better than that.  Congratulations to Mercedes for getting level 3 certification.  Level 3 simply requires you pay attention to the car rather than the surroundings.  You still need to be able to take over.  Personally I think level 2 is much safer from that perspective and the level 2 Tesla features are far more advanced than the Mercedes functionality.  It is not Tesla people I base my opinions on - it is the Mercedes engineer describing the system.  I don’t see a path for a geofenced solution to ever achieve level 5. Meanwhile the Tesla is performing level 5 tasks and maneuvers while prudently requiring attention.  ( note nobody is complain about how risky level 3 is). FSD will be a much more capable and mature solution in the long run.  It nothing else FSD is capable of judging distances and objects just fine and does so as a safety net in all of their cars all of the time for zero extra cost.  And yes OTA updates do continue to make the car safer as a direct result of continuous investment in FSD.  I don’t see any existing Mercedes cars get any of these level 3 features.  I can make my four year old car take part in the beta program with a push of a button. Nice extra $200 for Tesla per month from each and every car built in the last six years.  You love to make fun of OTA, aka thorn in someone’s side. 
     

    I am assuming that once another car company can get OTA to work right it will be the greatest thing ever.  FSD was always the work of the Tesla Devil but now that Mercedes seems to have conquered the complex problem it is amazing tech - even if the truth is pretty obscure.  

     

     

    The Mercedes system is SAFE! Hence why it got certified. If the regulators think it isn't safe, they won't certify it. 

    Level 5 is a pipe dream, AIs, computer generated logics simply cannot predict and react to unpredictable human drivers.  

    in order for level 5 to be 'safe', it needs it's own travel lane and other concessions, which bring us right back to the beginning, why? It's a solution to a problem no one is asking for. Airports and stuff have deployed automated shuttles and trains between terminals, those work well, yet they still have malfunctions all the time. And you want to put a AI car on the road with other humans drivers? That's just asking for trouble. How will an AI react to actions by others? Will they be hyper aggressive and initiate road rage? Or will they be super courteous and basically stuck on an onramp forever? Somewhere in the middle would be the solution, but which way does the Ai lean towards? Basic questions that no one can authoritatively answered right now. 

    Oh, is OTA the only left you can talk about for Teslas? Does it update your hardware? I didn't know OTA can atomically construct a missing sensor, is that something new Elon promised? You know he is putting radar back into cars right? Does OTA do that retrofit part by itself? 


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    Re: Tesla

    ALDO:
    RC:
    Leawood911:

    Any chance you guys looked into the Magic Mercedes system?  That level 3 system?  It requires a car to be leading it. Will not even work if you are the only one on the road. It is limited to 40 mph, it will not change lanes, when it requires attention and the driver does not respond it comes to a stop in the lane it is in.  It only cost $5k, will only work in Nevada maybe in CA and only on certain stretches of highway (where you must go more than 45). Oh and it does not like sunny conditions, rain, snow and roads if they have a bank in the turn.  Perfect system. Oh and cars will be delivered at the end of 2023. 
    What a huge lead indeed. 
    My point is people who tell you Tesla is not a good car are not doing you any favors only the other car companies. 
    I have seen plenty of other cars. I don’t need to buy them to understand how they work and if they are competitive. Seriously strange to me that one can buy so many cars and be so wrong about them and keep doing it. 

    So sad that someone like you is so stubborn and ill informed. Smiley

    Mercedes new level 3 system is authorized up to 130 kph, which would be sufficient for the US and it does not require a lead car. You have old information. Unfortunately, in Germany (first country worldwide with level 3 authorization up to 130 kph), this system is only authorized (so far) for Autobahn use only.

    But as far as I have read it is limited to 40 mph and it needs a car in front.
    Heise on Level 3

    In the USA, dear Adnan. In the USA. In Germany, up to 130 kph only on the Autobahn and without a lead car. Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla

    RC:
    ALDO:
    RC:
    Leawood911:

    Any chance you guys looked into the Magic Mercedes system?  That level 3 system?  It requires a car to be leading it. Will not even work if you are the only one on the road. It is limited to 40 mph, it will not change lanes, when it requires attention and the driver does not respond it comes to a stop in the lane it is in.  It only cost $5k, will only work in Nevada maybe in CA and only on certain stretches of highway (where you must go more than 45). Oh and it does not like sunny conditions, rain, snow and roads if they have a bank in the turn.  Perfect system. Oh and cars will be delivered at the end of 2023. 
    What a huge lead indeed. 
    My point is people who tell you Tesla is not a good car are not doing you any favors only the other car companies. 
    I have seen plenty of other cars. I don’t need to buy them to understand how they work and if they are competitive. Seriously strange to me that one can buy so many cars and be so wrong about them and keep doing it. 

    So sad that someone like you is so stubborn and ill informed. Smiley

    Mercedes new level 3 system is authorized up to 130 kph, which would be sufficient for the US and it does not require a lead car. You have old information. Unfortunately, in Germany (first country worldwide with level 3 authorization up to 130 kph), this system is only authorized (so far) for Autobahn use only.

    But as far as I have read it is limited to 40 mph and it needs a car in front.
    Heise on Level 3

    In the USA, dear Adnan. In the USA. In Germany, up to 130 kph only on the Autobahn and without a lead car. Smiley

    Sorry, I meant USA, Leawood was for sure talking about USA and not Germany.


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    AM


    Re: Tesla

    He was talking about the technology and Mercedes is the first car company to get a level 3 authorization and Germany is the only country where the car can go 130 kph without any lead car...on the Autobahn only. We discussed this earlier.

    In the US, the laws haven't kept up with the technology but eventually will soon.

    BMW and Audi will be next...not sure where Tesla will be here. Smiley

    Unless Elon Musk has some tricks up his sleeves, I do not see how Tesla can keep up with the technology boost/offensive from German manufacturers.

    German manufacturers aren't even the problem: Just imagine cheap Chinese products making it to the US and Europe. Right now, Chinese EVs aren't really cheap but I see a huge potential here and at some point, the lower end market will be overtaken by Chinese manufacturers because German manufacturers are way too focused on high end cars.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla

    The distinction between level 2 and level 3 is pretty minimal. If you look at the capability it is not even a close call.  Your argument that level 5 is a pipe dream that will never happen seems to be the Mercedes philosophy. It will not get to level 5. Meanwhile, few would argue Tesla is planning to actually get there. 
    But like I said, congrats to Mercedes for gaining approval in their home country on a few KM of autobahn. 
    Tesla is far more than OTA, obviously it does not update physical hardware like that but there are hundreds of examples where the software update has improved the hardware and safety.  I won’t depress you with examples. 
    Do you imagine the other automakers would like to have their OTA work as well as Tesla?  Due to their various suppliers I doubt they can ever get enough coordination to pull it off. 
    and don’t forget the light show - a prime example of how well integrated the car is.   Lol. 


    Re: Tesla

    Agreed the Chinese will be the ones to watch for .  Lots of Lidar and a mix of level 4 and 5 autonomy.  Not to mention clones of GW Bugs and Porsches - eye opening to watch even if some of the fugly designs will make you cringe  

    https://youtu.be/jnXeQRM51qg

     


    Re: Tesla

    https://www.iotworldtoday.com/transportation-logistics/san-francisco-wants-to-slow-down-robotaxi-rollout


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    Mike

    918 Spyder + 992 GT3 Touring + Taycan Turbo + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: Tesla

    https://insideevs.com/news/650150/toyota-says-ev-extremists-are-wrong/

    Can't argue with scientific facts.

    If one only drives a tiny fraction of the range of a full on EV's battery every day, most of the battery is dead weight that's wasteful and hurts efficiency. 

    I wonder how far our resident Tesla fanatics drives a day? They charge it up every night, so like 80-90% of their capacity is just pointless weights that they carry around all the time?

    I at least drive my EVs till they are almost dead before charging, so I am using the whole pack. 


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    Re: Tesla

    ^

    I think you miss (part of) the point, a smaller battery requiring less range would be more efficient, partially offset b more frequent charging...but the charging misses the point too, with regard to energy efficiency..fossil fuels being more efficient in autos due to less conversion from sources  natural gas, oil, etc, and therefore less efficient.

    This whole EV "thing" is an unattainable scam (while they don't say it, Toyota is prescient), forced on Auto Companies and it will not end well when people are truly "woke".  


    Re: Tesla

    cnc:

    ^

    I think you miss (part of) the point, a smaller battery requiring less range would be more efficient, partially offset b more frequent charging...but the charging misses the point too, with regard to energy efficiency..fossil fuels being more efficient in autos due to less conversion from sources  natural gas, oil, etc, and therefore less efficient.

    This whole EV "thing" is an unattainable scam (while they don't say it, Toyota is prescient), forced on Auto Companies and it will not end well when people are truly "woke".  

     

    Sorry, but I actually don't agree with you. 

    While EV is a novelty propulsion idea, it is a very valid one and is perfectly suited to a group of people. It's not for everyone, and that's the point Toyota is trying to make. For the majority of consumers, a hybrid makes much more sense. A hybrid gets the best of both worlds, clean local emission, or more fittingly, a lack of local emission, and at the same time, it's range isn't constrained by the battery size and charging infrastructure.

    For some people, their daily driving range isn't big, 150km pretty much covers at least 95% of the world's drivers for daily usage. That is about 1/3 of the range provided by current EV batteries, it means if they all switched to EVs, they are carrying 2/3 of a battery as dead weight, pointless, especially when a good number of them charge at home every night. Heck, most people drive half that amount a day. The math is simple.

    For myself, I seldom do a round trip of more than 30ish km, my Panamera turbo S can do that in electric mode. And when I come home and plug it in, 2 hours of charging I am full again and ready to go for another one of those round trip. Same deal with my Jeep Wrangler hybrid. For the odd trip that I had to drive 4-500km, the gas engine is there to do the heavy lifting, I don't even have to hunt for a charging station. 

    Where I live, electricity is 100% clean, hydro power, and it's 90%+ efficient. For Leawood, I think KC is mostly coal/gas powered with wind turbine helping, maybe even nuclear also, so his electricity isn't 100% clean, fossil fuel power plants are around 60% efficient, nuclear 30-40%, same deal with wind turbines, depending on the mix, his electricity would have had a ~50-55% efficiency. Transmission and conversion loses for electricity is really low, so by the time those electrons made it to the EV's batteries, it would have only lost about a couple % if that. Combustion engines only have an efficiency of 30ish%, far far below even against Leawood's electricity source, and no hope of matching my hydro electricity.

    The illusion of fossil fuel cars being more 'efficient' than EV is only because of the bigger gas tank. The total energy inside a EV battery pack only equals to about a couple gallons of gasoline. You try driving your car and see how far it goes on a couple gallons, then you will realize how efficient an EV is, that same couple gallons worth of energy can get an EV really really far. 

    EVs isn't a scam, it is a valid alternative to gasoline or diesel powered. Some people are better served with diesels, and some are with electric, while the rest is better served with regular gasoline. They all have their place in the market place.  EVs aren't for everyone, one size doesn't fit all. 

    The actual scam is the politicians pushing for all EVs. They are full of shit and detached from reality. They should have just take their hands off and let the market decide. 

     


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    Re: Tesla

    ^

    You again miss the point ( and perhaps I didn't state it clearly enough). Factor in the conversion loss required to create the electricity in the first instance (absence hydro) and the efficiency argument goes out the window. Natural gas or oil converted to electricity which is then consumed is much less efficient than the direct consumption of fossil fuel. 


    Re: Tesla

    I stated the conversion rate for various types of energy source, you didn't read.

    Fossil fuel power plants are running at around 60% max efficiency generating electricity. And after transmission losses and various inverters along the way, you will still be at above 50%. The worse conversion rate for power plants is actually nuclear plants at around 30ish %, but nuclear is the cheapest and cleanest and most stable. 

    And your gasoline engine is only running at 30ish% converting that energy into propulsion. Diesel at around 50ish%.

    A diesel engine barely matches the efficiency of 'dirty' electric power plant making electricity for EVs. 

    A gasoline engine is not even close. 

    And I am not even a Tesla fanatic that thinks EVs are the answer to everything. I am just stating the obvious facts. Numbers are all published publicly. 

     

     

     

     

     


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    Re: Tesla

    ^

    Coolaid comes in many flavors!

    Mark Twain said it best...

    "There are lies, damned lies and there are statistics"

    Enjoy your choices, and I hope the freedom to chose is preserved.


    Re: Tesla

    You can believe whatever you wanted to believe, that's the beauty of a free society. wink

    I love choices too, and have been promoting that since like forever. I am not stuck up on one drivetrain or another, or brands  for that matters. I keep an open mind to things. I don't overrule something just because it is an EV, or because it's a certain brand. 

    While I have 3 EVs and 3 hybrids right now, I still kept my normal cars and my next 3 incoming cars are all with normal engines. 

     


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    Re: Tesla

    cnc:

    ^

    Coolaid comes in many flavors!

    Mark Twain said it best...

    "There are lies, damned lies and there are statistics"

    Enjoy your choices, and I hope the freedom to chose is preserved.

    Fascinating that you mention the loss in conversion to change a fossil fuel to electricity, but you do not seem to have the slightest appreciation for the amount of electricity commonly used to convert oil into a usable fuel for an automobile. Generally more than enough to charge an electric vehicle to cover the same mileage. Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    ^

    Hadn't forgotten about it all

    So to be all inclusive...don't forget the energy/resources required to extinguish the battery fires, and that needed to properly dispose of the batteries in an environmentally safe manner.

    It's just not true that Electric cars are zero emissions or a panacea to our fossil fuel "woes"

     


    Re: Tesla

    cnc:

    ^

    Hadn't forgotten about it all

    So to be all inclusive...don't forget the energy/resources required to extinguish the battery fires, and that needed to properly dispose of the batteries in an environmentally safe manner.

    It's just not true that Electric cars are zero emissions or a panacea to our fossil fuel "woes"

     

    Oh boy. How do you know I don’t charge directly from Solar?  How many choices do you have to fuel your car?  Got an oil well in your backyard next to the refinery. 
    The only reason I own my EV and enjoy it so much is that it is practical, insanely cheap to own and very very quick and silent. I am not able to find the same combination of speed and practicality in any other package. 
    Anyway, good luck convincing people here if you are up against me and Whoopsy. Not to mention the unquestionably logical Gladstone. 


     
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