Crown

22 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.9L Twin-Plug MFI Carbon Fiber replica. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi, 06 EVO9 with track mods

That review was actually less critical of the car than other reviews.  AMG tried to produce a performance car within the confines of onerous regulations and missed its target substantially.  Perhaps an EV was a better alternative than this weighty hybrid; however, I doubt it too would come close to the visceral appeal of previous generations.  I’m afraid that Porsche will miss the mark with an EV Boxster/Cayman too. 

CGX car nut:

That review was actually less critical of the car than other reviews.  AMG tried to produce a performance car within the confines of onerous regulations and missed its target substantially.  Perhaps an EV was a better alternative than this weighty hybrid; however, I doubt it too would come close to the visceral appeal of previous generations.  I’m afraid that Porsche will miss the mark with an EV Boxster/Cayman too. 

The new C63 S AMG is actually a great car, a fast car and...well...nothing more. I like the new C63 S AMG from a technology point of view but let's be honest here: What is the advantage of this car, other that the hybrid and maybe having the latest C class? 

Me and my son were sitting in the living room yesterday, discussing cars and emotions.

We all know that at some point, there is going to be a speed limit in Germany, there is no doubt about it in my mind. 

So what fun would the new C63 S AMG actually be when you have a speed limit? Exactly. None. 

So the second question was, what cars are fun to drive even at lower speeds? Our list of cars, especially newer ones, shrank quite a lot.

Tesla S Plaid? Superfast but boring at lower speeds. Maybe fun to accelerate from stop light to stop light but then...is it really that much fun? All the time? Nope.

Porsche 992 Turbo S? Amazing car, fast as hell but sounds like crap at lower speeds, maybe as a Cabriolet more fun.

GT3/GT3 RS models? Definitely fun, especially in curves, no super high speeds necessary, they also sound decent. 

911 Carrera models? Well, to be honest, I would choose the Cabriolets only but definitely fun in curves, no doubt.

BMW M3/M4? Hmm...I would probably choose the Cab with AWD only, with the exception of the Touring maybe. Fun cars to drive but not really at lower speeds.

Lamborghini? Well, we all know how they sound, they are fun even at lower speeds.

Ferrari? Close to Lamborghini in the fun department, not sure however the 296 GTB makes much sense here, maybe the SF90 but still...I think a F8, 488, 458 and so on make more sense.

I was thinking about getting the new M5 (hybrid with over 700 hp) in 2024 as a daily driver but again, makes no sense, no fun when there is a speed limit.

Looked up so many cars with my son but in the end, it always comes to older V8/V12 models, maybe the new Corvette Z06 (when available in Europe, if they don't castrate the sound), maybe a GT3/GT3 RS, maybe a 911 Carrera 4 S or GTS Cab as a daily driver, old AMG models or maybe the new SL55 or 63 AMG?

Difficult but one thing is clear: I want a car I can enjoy at lower speeds as well. Unfortunately there aren't many of these cars on the market and the new ones are getting more and more boring.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

I don’t drive my EV because it is green. I drive it because of exactly what you describe in your search. it is tremendously fun at low speeds since it is silent, handles very well and easily hits 60 in 3 seconds in any conditions without attracting attention. For me it is the most fun way to cross town. A plaid would just be the icing 🧁 on the cake.  Maybe drive one?

CGX car nut:

 I’m afraid that Porsche will miss the mark with an EV Boxster/Cayman too. 

I'm very curious about how the EV Boxster/Cayman is going to be received because while performance will take a big jump with the EV engine and low CG, the driving experience otoh is going to take a huge hit, its going to be heavy instead of nimble, the sound will be gone, the shifting will be gone, the reving, etc, etc... There is a reason why the most desired sportscars are ICE or hybrids and not EVs.

But most importantly, its not a new additional model linenlike the Taycan, its replacing a previous existing one, so its got to deal with the comparison and previous experience of the ICE version, and the responsability of being the reason the other one doesn't exist anymore. One thing is to be an additional model, if you don't like it don't buy it and no problem, but another is being responsible for the dissapearance of another model and making customers not miss anything they liked on the old one and I don't see an EV doing that in that case.

I don't see that being a problem with a people mover like the Macan, on the contrary in that case, but with fun to drive two seater sportscar concept? Its going to be interesting...

RC:

CGX car nut:

That review was actually less critical of the car than other reviews.  AMG tried to produce a performance car within the confines of onerous regulations and missed its target substantially.  Perhaps an EV was a better alternative than this weighty hybrid; however, I doubt it too would come close to the visceral appeal of previous generations.  I’m afraid that Porsche will miss the mark with an EV Boxster/Cayman too. 

The new C63 S AMG is actually a great car, a fast car and...well...nothing more. I like the new C63 S AMG from a technology point of view but let's be honest here: What is the advantage of this car, other that the hybrid and maybe having the latest C class? 

Me and my son were sitting in the living room yesterday, discussing cars and emotions.

We all know that at some point, there is going to be a speed limit in Germany, there is no doubt about it in my mind. 

So what fun would the new C63 S AMG actually be when you have a speed limit? Exactly. None. 

So the second question was, what cars are fun to drive even at lower speeds? Our list of cars, especially newer ones, shrank quite a lot.

Tesla S Plaid? Superfast but boring at lower speeds. Maybe fun to accelerate from stop light to stop light but then...is it really that much fun? All the time? Nope.

Porsche 992 Turbo S? Amazing car, fast as hell but sounds like crap at lower speeds, maybe as a Cabriolet more fun.

GT3/GT3 RS models? Definitely fun, especially in curves, no super high speeds necessary, they also sound decent. 

911 Carrera models? Well, to be honest, I would choose the Cabriolets only but definitely fun in curves, no doubt.

BMW M3/M4? Hmm...I would probably choose the Cab with AWD only, with the exception of the Touring maybe. Fun cars to drive but not really at lower speeds.

Lamborghini? Well, we all know how they sound, they are fun even at lower speeds.

Ferrari? Close to Lamborghini in the fun department, not sure however the 296 GTB makes much sense here, maybe the SF90 but still...I think a F8, 488, 458 and so on make more sense.

I was thinking about getting the new M5 (hybrid with over 700 hp) in 2024 as a daily driver but again, makes no sense, no fun when there is a speed limit.

Looked up so many cars with my son but in the end, it always comes to older V8/V12 models, maybe the new Corvette Z06 (when available in Europe, if they don't castrate the sound), maybe a GT3/GT3 RS, maybe a 911 Carrera 4 S or GTS Cab as a daily driver, old AMG models or maybe the new SL55 or 63 AMG?

Difficult but one thing is clear: I want a car I can enjoy at lower speeds as well. Unfortunately there aren't many of these cars on the market and the new ones are getting more and more boring.

Excellent post. 
 

As a society we are transitioning from cars being entertainment pods to mere transportation devices. Not only will performance be impacted. Vehicle styling will undergo significant change. Tesla looks like it’s be styled in Russia/China. An upgraded version of Prius. No longer will form follow function because performance is not a priority.

The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

Interesting view given the Tesla is actually the highest performance car on sale. Looks are subjective but eliminating tons of baroque buttons and old fashioned switches and replacing it all with ten times the functionality is pretty much the definition of improving function and performance. Not to mention it is 100% American - far from Chinese. The style is holding up well and the owners of ten year old plus cars still get new updates all the time to make the ownership experience fresh and interesting.  No one else is doing this part at all.  
Silence while blasting past traffic is one of the most fun things. Far from boring. 
As the Plaid cars are now hitting Europe watch for some pretty silly outrage from the competition. 

Leawood911:

Interesting view given the Tesla is actually the highest performance car on sale. Looks are subjective but eliminating tons of baroque buttons and old fashioned switches and replacing it all with ten times the functionality is pretty much the definition of improving function and performance. ...

Buttons, so inconvenient with their 17th century baroque utilitarianism. Barbaric. 

I still keep wondering how would over the air updates solve the problem of lack of hardware, especially on FSD........

Does the update send extra electrons over the air to reconstruct the needed hardware inside the car? 

Whoopsy:

I still keep wondering how would over the air updates solve the problem of lack of hardware, especially on FSD........

Does the update send extra electrons over the air to reconstruct the needed hardware inside the car? 

 

Closer than Ford. Lol. 
If required is suspect Tesla will update the hardware for those who have paid for FSD. They have done this once already. BTW have you been checking out the FSD progress on YouTube using the current hardware?  
It is high praise that no other car company is held to such standards.   

Enmanuel:

Leawood911:

Interesting view given the Tesla is actually the highest performance car on sale. Looks are subjective but eliminating tons of baroque buttons and old fashioned switches and replacing it all with ten times the functionality is pretty much the definition of improving function and performance. ...

Buttons, so inconvenient with their 17th century baroque utilitarianism. Barbaric. 

Tesla ownership has the obvious consequence of questioning useless interface devices. Designers take note. 
My Christmas software present from Tesla includes MyQ garage door interface for free as well as turn signals which recognize when a lane change is complete and then cancels them. Lots of other stuff like being able to view the interior camera remotely from the phone app and even activating emissions mode from the phone as well as the new light show. The model Y performance gets track mode. Just free stuff that each Tesla owner will have added to their car this week. What new features are you getting added to your buttons?  Lol.  I lost track of all the new features I have for free since buying the car. Zero repairs - I did refill the windshield washer fluid twice in 46k miles. 

Leawood911:

Enmanuel:

Leawood911:

Interesting view given the Tesla is actually the highest performance car on sale. Looks are subjective but eliminating tons of baroque buttons and old fashioned switches and replacing it all with ten times the functionality is pretty much the definition of improving function and performance. ...

Buttons, so inconvenient with their 17th century baroque utilitarianism. Barbaric. 

Tesla ownership has the obvious consequence of questioning useless interface devices. Designers take note. 
My Christmas software present from Tesla includes MyQ garage door interface for free as well as turn signals which recognize when a lane change is complete and then cancels them. Lots of other stuff like being able to view the interior camera remotely from the phone app and even activating emissions mode from the phone as well as the new light show. The model Y performance gets track mode. Just free stuff that each Tesla owner will have added to their car this week. What new features are you getting added to your buttons?  Lol.  I lost track of all the new features I have for free since buying the car. Zero repairs - I did refill the windshield washer fluid twice in 46k miles. 

I was poking fun at your choice of time period reference, not the screen vs buttons argument  

Leawood911:

Enmanuel:

Leawood911:

Interesting view given the Tesla is actually the highest performance car on sale. Looks are subjective but eliminating tons of baroque buttons and old fashioned switches and replacing it all with ten times the functionality is pretty much the definition of improving function and performance. ...

Buttons, so inconvenient with their 17th century baroque utilitarianism. Barbaric. 

Tesla ownership has the obvious consequence of questioning useless interface devices. Designers take note. 
My Christmas software present from Tesla includes MyQ garage door interface for free as well as turn signals which recognize when a lane change is complete and then cancels them. Lots of other stuff like being able to view the interior camera remotely from the phone app and even activating emissions mode from the phone as well as the new light show. The model Y performance gets track mode. Just free stuff that each Tesla owner will have added to their car this week. What new features are you getting added to your buttons?  Lol.  I lost track of all the new features I have for free since buying the car. Zero repairs - I did refill the windshield washer fluid twice in 46k miles. 

My phone has the MyQ app, also my cars have HomeLink for the longest time, Tesla don't? Weird.

Never have I had a car that got turn signals that don't self cancel. Tesla's don't? Another weird thing. 

Why do I need to have a camera inside the car for me to look at it? I mean if it's a Roll Royce, then I might want one just to admire the lovely interior, but a camera to look at sub par Tesla interior? No thanks.

Model Y getting track mode? All my Porsches come factory equipped to get on the track and perform well. Properly engineered car vs hack jobs. 

You mean OTA updates don't refill your washer fluid over the air? Bummer. Would have been a great selling point to me. 

They just added the MyQ app in this update. Does your car?

When you signal a lane change and complete it the car recognizes that the lane change took place and turns off the signal. None of your cars do this.  Show me. And this is another free feature just for Christmas. How many new features via OTA did you get in any of your cars ever? 
 

When you use dog mode it is now possible to watch your dog in the car. Also if the sentry mode detects someone you can view all the cameras and speak to them or fart at them. By your logic no car other than a RR needs an alarm. 
 

The Y performance did not come initially with track mode. Now they added it for free. None of your Porsches have the features track mode for a Tesla provides. 
 

You make a fine point - windshield washer fluid needs to added manually but you don’t need to add gas ⛽️ Once per week. 
 

You seriously failed in all of your attempts. Try again. 

Jeezes, this Tesla back and forth talk is getting really old...no one reading about the new C63S here cares about Tesla's. Please keep it in the Tesla topic.

997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 

Powertrain on the new C63S sounds horrible!!!! Sign of the times perhaps, but very sad…..

RC:

Difficult but one thing is clear: I want a car I can enjoy at lower speeds as well. Unfortunately there aren't many of these cars on the market and the new ones are getting more and more boring.

Well, the 991 Speedster may fit your criteria.  Open top with GT3 engine.  Yes, it is tuned to be a bit tame compared to the hard top GT3, but I am not using it on track so that is fine.  The only problem is its price tag, but it is what it is.

Not sure why Whoopsy sold his?  Was fun driving up to Cypress with him last time 

Tim

2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S;  2019 Speedster;  2021 Roma
 

Tim

2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S;  2019 Speedster;  2021 Roma
 

Targa Tim:

 

Not sure why Whoopsy sold his?  Was fun driving up to Cypress with him last time 

It's a modern manual. It's a bit too big for my taste as a Speedster. The gf laughs at me every time I tried to operate the top. The gf like the convertible feel but hates the bucket.

After driving the 991 Speedster, I realized it isn't what I had wanted. What I want is a 89 Speedster. The original. Still looking for the right one. 

Whoopsy:

Targa Tim:

 

Not sure why Whoopsy sold his?  Was fun driving up to Cypress with him last time 

 

It's a modern manual. It's a bit too big for my taste as a Speedster. The gf laughs at me every time I tried to operate the top. The gf like the convertible feel but hates the bucket.

After driving the 991 Speedster, I realized it isn't what I had wanted. What I want is a 89 Speedster. The original. Still looking for the right one. 

I know what you mean as 911 is getting progressively bigger.

997 size is perfect to me, as 993 is a bit too small.

I like new cars with some modern technology.  I can’t go back to a 89 Speedster.

Agreed with uncomfortable buckets and my wife hated them as well.  I replaced them with thicker cushions and it helps a bit.

Tim

2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S;  2019 Speedster;  2021 Roma
 

Whoopsy:

Targa Tim:

 

Not sure why Whoopsy sold his?  Was fun driving up to Cypress with him last time 

 

It's a modern manual. It's a bit too big for my taste as a Speedster. The gf laughs at me every time I tried to operate the top. The gf like the convertible feel but hates the bucket.

After driving the 991 Speedster, I realized it isn't what I had wanted. What I want is a 89 Speedster. The original. Still looking for the right one. 

The original Speedster dates back to late 1954 and has more charisma than any recent 911.  

CGX car nut:

Whoopsy:

Targa Tim:

 

Not sure why Whoopsy sold his?  Was fun driving up to Cypress with him last time 

 

It's a modern manual. It's a bit too big for my taste as a Speedster. The gf laughs at me every time I tried to operate the top. The gf like the convertible feel but hates the bucket.

After driving the 991 Speedster, I realized it isn't what I had wanted. What I want is a 89 Speedster. The original. Still looking for the right one. 

The original Speedster dates back to late 1954 and has more charisma than any recent 911.  

That's quite correct. I would love to have one of those too.

But those are 356s, not 911s. 

Fun fact: All my car plates have 356 in them, except the 918 has 918 and I have a 718 in waiting for my GT4RS. 

Targa Tim:

Whoopsy:

Targa Tim:

 

Agreed with uncomfortable buckets and my wife hated them as well.  I replaced them with thicker cushions and it helps a bit.

 

 

Why did you guys order the car with the buckets ? Buckets make no sense on a car that is used only on public roads. Less confortable, harder to get in and out, no adjustment. They are made to hold you properly around a track, that's it.

Oh and they look good, yes ! 

It's a personal preference. Both my wife and I love bucket seats. We find them quite comfortable once you're in them. That said, getting in and out of them is an issue.

The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

nberry:

It's a personal preference. Both my wife and I love bucket seats. We find them quite comfortable once you're in them. That said, getting in and out of them is an issue.

True, except for the lack of lumbar support. They're not good for my back.

KMM:

nberry:

It's a personal preference. Both my wife and I love bucket seats. We find them quite comfortable once you're in them. That said, getting in and out of them is an issue.

True, except for the lack of lumbar support. They're not good for my back.

 

A little lumbar pillow solves that issue easily...

22 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.9L Twin-Plug MFI Carbon Fiber replica. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi, 06 EVO9 with track mods

The seats as installed in a 911 and Cayman are already better than inside a 918, with an extra 10 degrees of so tilt backwards. 

But honestly, the seat needs another couple inches of height at the front of the seat or at least an inch to give better thigh support, and the seat back needed to be perhaps another 5 degree back. Basically major surgery to modify it for older people like us. 

Why is it that so many people complain about Porsche bucket seats?  

I too had a difficult time getting acclimatized to the GT3 bucket, but eventually got used to it.  Should Porsche allow more adjustability?  At least the Ferrari bucket is quite comfortable for me.  

I guess I’m lucky, since the LWB’s are just about perfect for me (perfect with a little inflatable lumbar travel pillow).

22 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.9L Twin-Plug MFI Carbon Fiber replica. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi, 06 EVO9 with track mods

Maybe they are designed for taller people.  I’m 6’4” (1.93 meters) and the buckets fit me wonderfully.  Don’t even need a small pillow for lumbar support.  Have done some 300 mile road trips in them with zero issues.