Crown

TB993tt:

crayphile:

Congratulations. Great that the car is now in good hands.

Cray, I was thinking, you are probably the man to discuss this with.

Bearing in mind my last modern 911 was a new 991.2 Turbo S which I quickly ditched because in felt like a big Audi, I have never driven a 991 GT3 but driving this lovely 992 GT3 I am struck with the way it drives and it immediately strikes me that it is similar in many ways to a Mclaren LT. The way the GT3 resonates at idle seems to me to be at the identical frequency which Mclaren engineer into their LT range, the general mechanical noises and vibrations feel so similar then of course the fantastic steering of the new GT3 whilst not quite there is very Mclarenesque.

The power delivery is obviously not like a Mclaren in terms of the NA power curve but it certainly feels out of the LT playbook.

I am incredibly pleased about this as I love Mclaren LTs so here I will (hopefully) have a 4 seat LT to drive which will not be bonging error messages at me constantly and hopefully not throwing its residuals off a cliff

What do you think, am I on to something ?  

Agree on vibrations etc and that the McLaren’s hydraulic steering is an all time great. You lose me beyond that in that the engine characteristics are so different between the two and the driving feel as well given the different layouts. That’s why it makes sense to have both. I do worry about warranty/ legality issues with your 4 seat ploy -though from a starting point of ignorance. If the worry is real and your modifications are not fully reversible then I would have thought you will take a hit on residual vs an unmodiified one.

crayphile:

TB993tt:

crayphile:

Congratulations. Great that the car is now in good hands.

Cray, I was thinking, you are probably the man to discuss this with.

Bearing in mind my last modern 911 was a new 991.2 Turbo S which I quickly ditched because in felt like a big Audi, I have never driven a 991 GT3 but driving this lovely 992 GT3 I am struck with the way it drives and it immediately strikes me that it is similar in many ways to a Mclaren LT. The way the GT3 resonates at idle seems to me to be at the identical frequency which Mclaren engineer into their LT range, the general mechanical noises and vibrations feel so similar then of course the fantastic steering of the new GT3 whilst not quite there is very Mclarenesque.

The power delivery is obviously not like a Mclaren in terms of the NA power curve but it certainly feels out of the LT playbook.

I am incredibly pleased about this as I love Mclaren LTs so here I will (hopefully) have a 4 seat LT to drive which will not be bonging error messages at me constantly and hopefully not throwing its residuals off a cliff

What do you think, am I on to something ?  

Agree on vibrations etc and that the McLaren’s hydraulic steering is an all time great. You lose me beyond that in that the engine characteristics are so different between the two and the driving feel as well given the different layouts. That’s why it makes sense to have both. I do worry about warranty/ legality issues with your 4 seat ploy -though from a starting point of ignorance. If the worry is real and your modifications are not fully reversible then I would have thought you will take a hit on residual vs an unmodiified one.

It is the feel of rawness which reminds me of Mclaren LTs, like I said I didn't drive any 991 GT2/3 models but certainly the 997 GT2/3 don't have this kind of feel Porsche have definitely altered their playbook and engineered in the LTness.

The 4 seat thing uses a TUV approved kit so I'm not worried about the legality and I'm sure insurance will be fine, warranty hopefully will only be voided on the parts affected but TBH I really take the view that its my car and I'll do what I want with it, and historically I severely altered a 993 turbo over a 20 year period including replacing the roof and welding in an internal roll cage, similarly my 997GT2 is so heavily modified (including rear seat belts) that it is irreversible, the GT3 will remain relatively pretty much standard 

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.

Grant:

Congrats! 

Grant, I started reading your excellent oil change thread on RL but I couldn't see at what mileage you changed your oil, I presume you have your own schedule rather than the extended Porsche one, can you share 

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.

TB993tt:

Grant:

Congrats! 

Grant, I started reading your excellent oil change thread on RL but I couldn't see at what mileage you changed your oil, I presume you have your own schedule rather than the extended Porsche one, can you share 

I am a little OCD about it, so already done 5 oil changes (every 2,000 miles and over 10k miles so far in 1 year mixed road and track).  Since you only change half the oil at a time and they make us use the 0W40 C40 Mobil 1 (that is known to lose viscosity very quicky). But honestly, I think this is probably excessive.  If you are not tracking, once a year is probably fine.

--

22 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Grant:

TB993tt:

Grant:

Congrats! 

Grant, I started reading your excellent oil change thread on RL but I couldn't see at what mileage you changed your oil, I presume you have your own schedule rather than the extended Porsche one, can you share 

I am a little OCD about it, so already done 5 oil changes (every 2,000 miles and over 10k miles so far in 1 year mixed road and track).  Since you only change half the oil at a time and they make us use the 0W40 C40 Mobil 1 (that is known to lose viscosity very quicky). But honestly, I think this is probably excessive.  If you are not tracking, once a year is probably fine.

--

 

22 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

 

I've just skim read that thread, some awesome anoraking in there, wow every 2000 is really OCD 

The 4.1l issue is incredible and the explanation that the Cup teams "purge" their systems with multiple changes is intriguing. This  has prompted me to put a call in to my dealer as mine is in for an oil change (at 1200miles/1year) currently and I'll bet they try and charge me for 8l !!

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.

22 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Porsche 992 GT3 Touring on-road video review by Harry Metcalfe...   

Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCL7pZBcW2I

Harry’s Garage: https://www.youtube.com/c/Harrysgarage

Well when it's 75F/24C in November you go for a long drive on the wonderful back roads of KY.  Have to disagree with Harry on the ride and handling of the winged GT3.  The road surfaces aren't great here and I had no problems like he highlighted in his previous GT3 review.  Maybe the setup on mine is more like his touring was   My car is on Michelin's so be surprised if that is the difference based on everyone saying Pirelli's have a softer sidewall.

The winged GT3 is a wonderful road car.  Shame the leaves already fell or this would've been a stunning bit of road.

Looks great, thanks for sharing

22 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Such a great picture 

Earlier, up-thread, it was suggested to try "performance" tire pressures.

I tried them for my Touring and immediately found that the sharp, crisp steering of the "street" pressures disappeared and was replaced by a slightly "wallowy" on-center feel and the fabulously direct turn-in also was lacking.

A return to 32F 35R (psi) pressures returned the fabulous handling.

YMMV

--

Mike

918 Spyder + 992 GT3 Touring + Taycan Turbo + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T

W8MM:

Earlier, up-thread, it was suggested to try "performance" tire pressures.

I tried them for my Touring and immediately found that the sharp, crisp steering of the "street" pressures disappeared and was replaced by a slightly "wallowy" on-center feel and the fabulously direct turn-in also was lacking.

A return to 32F 35R (psi) pressures returned the fabulous handling.

YMMV

918 Spyder + 992 GT3 Touring + Taycan Turbo + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T

I haven't touched the pressures in mine which I presume the original owner adjusted to for his 800miles, when warm they are at 1.9 F and 2.2 rear.

This morning it was about 6 DegC and my tyre warning went off, they were at 1.8F and 1.9 rear, the warning stopped as they warmed up.

I can't say I can feel any wallowyness or lack of direct turn in but I guess it is all relative...... I may try increasing the pressures to see if it makes a big differences although I currently musing with the idea of fitting PS4S tyres as the traction in our winter conditions is abysmal, wheel spin at peak torque in second gear from only 470NM is a weird thing but must be the tyres rather than the relatively puny 470NM  

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.

My car is equipped with Pirelli Corsa and may be more/less sensitive to pressures than Cup2.
--

Mike

918 Spyder + 992 GT3 Touring + Taycan Turbo + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T

TB993tt:

W8MM:

Earlier, up-thread, it was suggested to try "performance" tire pressures.

I tried them for my Touring and immediately found that the sharp, crisp steering of the "street" pressures disappeared and was replaced by a slightly "wallowy" on-center feel and the fabulously direct turn-in also was lacking.

A return to 32F 35R (psi) pressures returned the fabulous handling.

YMMV

918 Spyder + 992 GT3 Touring + Taycan Turbo + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T

I haven't touched the pressures in mine which I presume the original owner adjusted to for his 800miles, when warm they are at 1.9 F and 2.2 rear.

This morning it was about 6 DegC and my tyre warning went off, they were at 1.8F and 1.9 rear, the warning stopped as they warmed up.

I can't say I can feel any wallowyness or lack of direct turn in but I guess it is all relative...... I may try increasing the pressures to see if it makes a big differences although I currently musing with the idea of fitting PS4S tyres as the traction in our winter conditions is abysmal, wheel spin at peak torque in second gear from only 470NM is a weird thing but must be the tyres rather than the relatively puny 470NM  

Cup2 need heat to work properly. And driving at speed limits on busy cold roads will take ages to bring them to proper working temperature. 

Cup2's under our latitudes are a nonsense for a car used on public roads.  PS4S are a much better choice. They will work better in 90% of the driving conditions. 

Gnil:

Cup2 need heat to work properly. And driving at speed limits on busy cold roads will take ages to bring them to proper working temperature. 

Cup2's under our latitudes are a nonsense for a car used on public roads.  PS4S are a much better choice. They will work better in 90% of the driving conditions. 

Agreed, I remove Cup 2s from every car on receipt and replace w PS4S; they are track tyre only, useless in the wet and also fail to road hazard much easier.

Ferrari has joined the PORSCHE marketing  silliness on Cup 2s, my Pista came with them, at least F still avoids the centre locks.

Thanks for those positive PS4S posts, I have intimate knowledge of what you say, my 997GT2 is a different much grippier safer road car on PS4S, but I appreciate the encouragement to pull off the perfectly good new Cup 2s on the GT3 and spend the ~£1300 on new set of PS4S boots - I will do it in the next few weeks  

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.

Mike, you said street pressure on your Touring is 35R/32F.  Street pressure on my GTS (not GT3) is 45R/37F. Wonder why the difference? 

PS4S tires are good overall choice, but not optimal for high speed track use IMHO.  And finding the right track temperature for any tire is tricky. We usually drop the tire pressure 10 pounds all around, then build up from there to find the right grip for the track and ambient temperature.
 

Comments welcome.

Is that the full load setting on the door sticker?  That seems really high, like I pump my tires up to 45psi to store the car for winter.  I have always ran 32F/36R with a tolerance of -2psi…

On door sticker

Higher pressure is for 'street', aka less rolling resistance for better fuel economy when testing. 

Also when doing high speed running. On a more inflated tire the rubber moves less, thus generating less heat. Higher pressure also support more weight.

The lower, 'performance' pressure setting would be the ideal pressure to run, it's how the car was tuned to run. The more flexible rubber move a bit more and generate more heat and more grip. With the extra heat the pressure will naturally goes back up. 

--

Semi slicks run also lower then normal street tire. That  explains the difference in recommended tire pressure between a Carrera and a GT car. 

Interesting as I’ve always ran similar pressures on my non-GT 911s as I have my GT cars.  When I went to higher pressure on the rears like 39psi didn’t like the handling of the car.   

45psi just sounds high to me as that’s higher than I run in my RS6 and it’s on 21s and weighs more than a house.  Surely good for fuel economy though.

On my GT cars, fitted from factory with Cup's , the sticker says : 29F   33B

On the Carrera 997.2 , with street tire, the sticker was : 33F  39B  , then Porsche changed the recommended pressure to : 33F  36B , this was valid for the 997.2 + 991  . I don't know about the 992

Gnil:

On my GT cars, fitted from factory with Cup's , the sticker says : 29F   33B

On the Carrera 997.2 , with street tire, the sticker was : 33F  39B  , then Porsche changed the recommended pressure to : 33F  36B , this was valid for the 997.2 + 991  . I don't know about the 992

Yeah my non-GT cars were a 997.2 and a 991.1 and that's in line with what I remember. 

My neighbour just got a new „investment“. Whoopsy, I shared your views on your one with him, so thank you.

996FourEss:

Hah first I was like wait why did they parked the car so weird, tight against the wall on the drivers' side, and then it hits me, those are RHD cars 

That's one handsome looking turbo S, and a stealthy looking Touring too. Smart choice for going with sofa seats instead of the stupid buckets also

Gold on black wheels vs black on gold wheels.

Thanks mate. Yep we drive on the wrong side over here which is a little annoying when one crosses over to the continent…..