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    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    You’re just figuring out he gets triggered by anything remotely negative towards Tesla?

    I am simply providing information in order to accurately inform.  I can’t help the fact that you guys are the ones triggered by my simple reply. It is as though you consider it a clever strategy to try and censor me in some ridiculous 3 rd grade way. Grow up just a bit and realize that if you want to learn something it helps to encourage input. Guess how much you learn by shutting down information?  
    If you have not noticed it have not posted much to refute the silly crap you post because the favorite game here is to do exactly what you and Whoopsy just did. Would you prefer to continue your circle  jerk conversations with yourself ?  Far less work and trouble for me. I just do this for the members who may not recognize your FUD immediately. That and I hate these BS bully tactic of yours. 


    Re: Tesla

    This FUD according to you too?

    Kyle at Out of Spec just ran a BMW iX M60 and a 2022 Tesla Model X non-plaid back to back. The least efficient iX beat the most efficient Model X by 9 miles on range.

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Full autonomous is very, very fare way. Legal problems could even make it never happen. 

    Just a small example . Brake failure when arriving at a pedestrian crossing. On one side a pregnant women. On the other side a 6 year old child.  Which one must the car choose ? All these scenarios have to be decided by a programmer . No one can make legally such decisions in advance. When that situation happens with human driving , decisions are made in a  split second, for good or bad.  

    '' self driving '' will have to be monitored by a driver. Could be more stressful then actually driving yourself.  Can work on highways only. 


    Re: Tesla

    Gnil:

    Full autonomous is very, very fare way. Legal problems could even make it never happen. 

    Just a small example . Brake failure when arriving at a pedestrian crossing. On one side a pregnant women. On the other side a 6 year old child.  Which one must the car choose ? All these scenarios have to be decided by a programmer . No one can make legally such decisions in advance. When that situation happens with human driving , decisions are made in a  split second, for good or bad.  

    '' self driving '' will have to be monitored by a driver. Could be more stressful then actually driving yourself.  Can work on highways only. 

    Indeed, it's easy to make an "almost good enough" self driving and pitch it as if they are almost there, and sell it before hand and keep promising every year after year that it's almost there, but the problem is that last 5 - 10% that you need to get to 100%, "almost" is not good enough for self driving, you need to get to 100%, and that last bit it's very very very far away still.

    It's incredible to think that most customers who bought FSD for thousands of dollars on a false promise years ago will see their cars go to the junkyard for recycling before they ever get FSD to fully work.


    Re: Tesla

    Gnil:

    Full autonomous is very, very fare way. Legal problems could even make it never happen. 

    Just a small example . Brake failure when arriving at a pedestrian crossing. On one side a pregnant women. On the other side a 6 year old child.  Which one must the car choose ? All these scenarios have to be decided by a programmer . No one can make legally such decisions in advance. When that situation happens with human driving , decisions are made in a  split second, for good or bad.  

    '' self driving '' will have to be monitored by a driver. Could be more stressful then actually driving yourself.  Can work on highways only. 

     

    And that, is the get out of jail free card by Tesla. They keep a small print/footnote just like that for a reason. 

    But most Tesla owners don't really care or noticed. Some do. Most don't, 

    Honestly, I still don't get the need for 'self driving'. I mean, it's great for those that can't drive, they can let the car drive them, that's about the only reason I can think of. 

    "long road trips". I just did one. In the 918. Not a second during that drive that I wish the car drive for me. Not even on tens of miles of perfectly straight roads. Those 'boring' stretches just means I get to play with the car. 

     

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Carlos from Spain:

    Musk making false promises never gets old...

    https://www.autoevolution.com/news/teardowns-show-tesla-s-4680-cells-are-just-big-and-ordinary-nmc-811-batteries-198926.html

    Thought I would chime on in just because it is you and kindly suggest you watch the videos on which the article is based. Cheers 


    Re: Tesla

    In other news, Elon Musk is forced to buy Twitter now, at his old agreed upon price of 44bil. 

    He changed his mind cause he doesn't want to be deposed by opposing lawyers. 

    Now the fun begins, how much stock he had to give up to secure his loans, and what's the margin price. 

    Hope he learn his lesson now, he isn't above the law and what he says on Twitter has consequences. 

     


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    Re: Tesla

    So I guess we are going to see a big announcement of some fake promise about Tesla again to prop up his stock just before he has to sell some?


    Re: Tesla

    Carlos from Spain:

    So I guess we are going to see a big announcement of some fake promise about Tesla again to prop up his stock just before he has to sell some?

    Perhaps trying to protect free speech is a worthwhile mission. Good way to spend all that money.  Personally I am greatly appreciative for the fact that he gets how critical free speech is.  Without it there would just be a few people in power controlling what we can read or say.  Gee, maybe he should buy RennTeam for $420. 


    Re: Tesla

    That is so cute .. you think Elon is spending 44bil on Twitter to protect free speech? ROTFLOL 


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    Carlos from Spain:

    So I guess we are going to see a big announcement of some fake promise about Tesla again to prop up his stock just before he has to sell some?

    Perhaps trying to protect free speech is a worthwhile mission. Good way to spend all that money.  Personally I am greatly appreciative for the fact that he gets how critical free speech is.  Without it there would just be a few people in power controlling what we can read or say.  Gee, maybe he should buy RennTeam for $420. 

    Mike, I haven't commented on some of your political references but this time I'm compelled to do so. You really need to get your head out of Trump's ass and move on to another conservative. Trump isn't worth your time or energy.Smiley


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    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


    Re: Tesla

    So Elon missed the boat on giving Twitter a lower offer to buy them. He had plenty of chances during his stand off to go low ball but he was determined to get out of his weed fuelled mistake. He lost. Now he had to pay full price with a really big premium.

    He also lost 2 other private equity firms' contribution. Meaning he will need to fork over more himself.

    At least the stock price, adjusted back to pre-split level, is still hovering around $720, so the numbers for his 'loan' would still work. 

    In another news, it would seems Amber Heard's baby is Elon's after all. I believe a UK news website has the article up, and also someone else in the Amber camp during pre-trial deposition testimonies disclosed that. Elon could be Amber's 'White Knight' for her bankruptcy trouble on her judgement against. 


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    Re: Tesla

    Carlos from Spain:

    That is so cute .. you think Elon is spending 44bil on Twitter to protect free speech? ROTFLOL 

    Actually yes. But I also get that you think free speech is a joke. No surprise here. 
    Now imagine if the media had not censored news of Hunters laptop or dozens of other stories. Remember the government officials and former CIA heads who claimed the laptop was as Russian miss-information.  Imagine where Russia would have found the money to invade Ukraine with $45 a barrel oil.  How would the rest of the world be doing with that oil price?  And our enemies?  And all it took was to censor enough clear thinkers to get Biden elected. 
    Given that Elon is being attacked with the same insanity as Trump it makes perfect sense to get ahead of it and we and Own Twitter. Brilliant for someone in his position. Or do nothing and get canceled by the left. 


    Re: Tesla

    nberry:
    Leawood911:
    Carlos from Spain:

    So I guess we are going to see a big announcement of some fake promise about Tesla again to prop up his stock just before he has to sell some?

    Perhaps trying to protect free speech is a worthwhile mission. Good way to spend all that money.  Personally I am greatly appreciative for the fact that he gets how critical free speech is.  Without it there would just be a few people in power controlling what we can read or say.  Gee, maybe he should buy RennTeam for $420. 

    Mike, I haven't commented on some of your political references but this time I'm compelled to do so. You really need to get your head out of Trump's ass and move on to another conservative. Trump isn't worth your time or energy.Smiley

    After all we have seen in the last 19 months you must be joking.  Biden the great divider,  a VP who can’t keep North Korea distinct from South Korea while standing in South Korea. Brink of nuclear war.  Good work at the borders.  Nice laptop Hunter.  Russian collusion sponsored by Hillary. Impeachment for nothing during the start of the pandemic. All of it a proven coup and yet dems still jail Jan 6th protestors. That is the real crime and the whole nation knows it. As a lawyer you must see this too. 

    I don’t even see Trump mentioned in my post. Get help with the TDS. By now the truth is out and should be plain to see. If nothing else look at the stock market, mortgage rates, fuel prices, food prices,  crime and the war in Europe not to mention what might happen in Asia. Find me one metric. Just one, which has improved with Biden?  None of the ‘Trump’ fears ever materialized and compared to what we have now you must be joking that Trump was somehow worse - not just in your mind. 

    Like I said - tell me one thing which improved?  Just one. If you think getting rid of Orange Man is worth this amount of BS and huge cost then you have not added to cost to our constitution and law enforcement to clean up the current corruption. Meanwhile Dems are trying to lock up conservatives to ‘protect’ our constitution.  

    I will stop here because it is just too ridiculous. This is not about Trump, it is about God, Country and Freedom. 
    Looking forward to Twitter being pro free speech.  


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    So Elon missed the boat on giving Twitter a lower offer to buy them. He had plenty of chances during his stand off to go low ball but he was determined to get out of his weed fuelled mistake. He lost. Now he had to pay full price with a really big premium.

    He also lost 2 other private equity firms' contribution. Meaning he will need to fork over more himself.

    At least the stock price, adjusted back to pre-split level, is still hovering around $720, so the numbers for his 'loan' would still work. 

    In another news, it would seems Amber Heard's baby is Elon's after all. I believe a UK news website has the article up, and also someone else in the Amber camp during pre-trial deposition testimonies disclosed that. Elon could be Amber's 'White Knight' for her bankruptcy trouble on her judgement against. 

    You seem fixated on all the sex he enjoys. 


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    Carlos from Spain:

    That is so cute .. you think Elon is spending 44bil on Twitter to protect free speech? ROTFLOL 

    Actually yes. But I also get that you think free speech is a joke. No surprise here. 

    That's how you rationalize it to fit your skewed world view? that I think free speech is s joke? What next, I must be a communist too?  

    Here is a shocker, I think Twitter is purposely filtering content with a leftist political bias, yes, they do it here in Spain too, but to think Musk is buying Twitter to protect free speech is so incredibly naive, it's business Leadwood, the rest is propaganda and manipulation you are falling for.

    That said, I'm all for Musk buying Twitter and cleaning house there, it's not going to improve free speech there, it's just going to change political color, that's a good bonus in my view, but he wants to "use" Twitter in his own economic interest, and there is nothing wrong with that, it's business and his money.


    Re: Tesla

    Whatever happened to that political thread that was opened for these types of discussions?


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Whatever happened to that political thread that was opened for these types of discussions?

    That’s why I won’t respond to Mike’s note blaming the world problems on Biden. Smiley


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    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:

    So Elon missed the boat on giving Twitter a lower offer to buy them. He had plenty of chances during his stand off to go low ball but he was determined to get out of his weed fuelled mistake. He lost. Now he had to pay full price with a really big premium.

    He also lost 2 other private equity firms' contribution. Meaning he will need to fork over more himself.

    At least the stock price, adjusted back to pre-split level, is still hovering around $720, so the numbers for his 'loan' would still work. 

    In another news, it would seems Amber Heard's baby is Elon's after all. I believe a UK news website has the article up, and also someone else in the Amber camp during pre-trial deposition testimonies disclosed that. Elon could be Amber's 'White Knight' for her bankruptcy trouble on her judgement against. 

    You seem fixated on all the sex he enjoys. 

     

    Did I mention sex anywhere? It would seems it's more of an money issue that I mentioned.........

    There are all sorts of ways a woman can be pregnant from donor sperms, last of which is actual sex. 


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    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Whatever happened to that political thread that was opened for these types of discussions?

    That’s where you can probably find info on Teslas and Taycans. 


    Re: Tesla

    nberry:
    CGX car nut:

    Whatever happened to that political thread that was opened for these types of discussions?

    That’s why I won’t respond to Mike’s note blaming the world problems on Biden. Smiley

    Only a lawyer would try to respond by making a political statement out of an alleged non-political statement. 


    Re: Tesla

    https://insideevs.com/news/614726/tesla-megapacks-hawaii-arrive-coal-is-finished/

    Something neat from Tesla.

    Hawaii phased out the last of their coal powreplant by installed Elon's battery system. 

    565MWh battery bank, charging up by a 156MW solar farm. About 4 hours to full factoring conversion losses if all the power is going to charging only. But in the real world it will likely takes all day if not more as the solar farm is part of the existing power infrastructure actively contributing output.

    Press release however is quite misleading. Claiming each module, with 3MWh of capacity is enough to power 3600 typical homes for one hour. The math comes out to, 3,000,000W / 3600 = 833.33W for each home on the hour. 833W per home per hour is a bit of a stretch. If A/C is on, that number is out the window. Dinner cooking time? Same thing. 

    But I applaud the effort to phase out the dirty coal plants. But unfortunately the majority of electricity generation there relies on petroleum, aka heavy bunker oil and diesel and such, not even cleaner natural gas. Biggest source of crude oil import? Russia, Libya and Saudi accounted for 38%. Wonderful isn't it, Hawaiians are paying these questionable entities a lot of money each year to finance whatever they are doing that the sitting US Presidents doesn't like. 

    Hawaii however is in. unique position to capture a lot of renewable energy sources, sitting in the middle of the Pacific, they should get more than average amount of sunshine, and with location so close to the equator, daylight hours doesn't' fluctuate much. It's also a windy location is wind farm should be a priority. Another benefit of being at a windy place, tides. All the great surfing locations have great tides, prime location to install tidal power generators. Heck, with so many active volcanos, geothermal is another viable source. 


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    Re: Tesla

    https://www.motorbiscuit.com/flooded-tesla-hurricane-ian-exploding-florida/

    Now here is something to considered.

    Flooded normal cars don't explode, but EV might and will. Guess automakers will need to consider this consequence when they design future EVs.

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    Guess automakers will need to consider this consequence when they design future EVs.

     

    How have they not done that yet? it's not like this is and uncommon occurrence, it happens all over the world for different reasons... and a fire from an EV is no joke either.


    Re: Tesla

    Here's how to charge in a renewable way:

    (Spoiler alert: It has something to do with microwave energy)

     


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    Mike

     

    918 Spyder + 992 GT3 Touring + Taycan Turbo + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T



    Re: Tesla

    “Exclusive: Tesla faces U.S. criminal probe over self-driving claims”

    (26 October 2022)

    Tesla Inc is under criminal investigation in the United States over claims that the company's electric vehicles can drive themselves, three people familiar with the matter said.

    The U.S. Department of Justice launched the previously undisclosed probe last year following more than a dozen crashes, some of them fatal, involving Tesla’s driver assistance system Autopilot, which was activated during the accidents, the people said.

    As early as 2016, Tesla’s marketing materials have touted Autopilot’s capabilities. On a conference call that year, Elon Musk, the Silicon Valley automaker’s chief executive, described it as “probably better” than a human driver.

    Last week, Musk said on another call Tesla would soon release an upgraded version of “Full Self-Driving” software allowing customers to travel “to your work, your friend’s house, to the grocery store without you touching the wheel.”

    A video currently on the company’s website says: “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”

    However, the company also has explicitly warned drivers that they must keep their hands on the wheel and maintain control of their vehicles while using Autopilot.

    The Tesla technology is designed to assist with steering, braking, speed and lane changes but its features “do not make the vehicle autonomous,” the company says on its website.

    Such warnings could complicate any case the Justice Department might wish to bring, the sources said.

    Tesla, which disbanded its media relations department in 2020, did not respond to written questions from Reuters on Wednesday. Musk also did not respond to written questions seeking comment. A Justice Department spokesperson declined to comment.

    Musk said in an interview with Automotive News in 2020 that Autopilot problems stem from customers using the system in ways contrary to Tesla’s instructions.

    Federal and California safety regulators are already scrutinizing whether claims about Autopilot's capabilities and the system's design imbue customers with a false sense of security, inducing them to treat Teslas as truly driverless cars and become complacent behind the wheel with potentially deadly consequences.

    The Justice Department investigation potentially represents a more serious level of scrutiny because of the possibility of criminal charges against the company or individual executives, the people familiar with the inquiry said.

    As part of the latest probe, Justice Department prosecutors in Washington and San Francisco are examining whether Tesla misled consumers, investors and regulators by making unsupported claims about its driver assistance technology's capabilities, the sources said.

    Officials conducting their inquiry could ultimately pursue criminal charges, seek civil sanctions or close the probe without taking any action, they said.

    The Justice Department’s Autopilot probe is far from recommending any action partly because it is competing with two other DOJ investigations involving Tesla, one of the sources said. Investigators still have much work to do and no decision on charges is imminent, this source said.

    The Justice Department may also face challenges in building its case, said the sources, because of Tesla’s warnings about overreliance on Autopilot.

    For instance, after telling the investor call last week that Teslas would soon travel without customers touching controls, Musk added that the vehicles still needed someone in the driver’s seat. “Like we’re not saying that that’s quite ready to have no one behind the wheel,” he said.

    The Tesla website also cautions that, before enabling Autopilot, the driver first needs to agree to "keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times" and to always "maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle.”

    Barbara McQuade, a former U.S. attorney in Detroit who prosecuted automotive companies and employees in fraud cases and is not involved in the current probe, said investigators likely would need to uncover evidence such as emails or other internal communications showing that Tesla and Musk made misleading statements about Autopilot’s capabilities on purpose.

    SEVERAL PROBES

    The criminal Autopilot investigation adds to the other probes and legal issues involving Musk, who became locked in a court battle earlier this year after abandoning a $44 billion takeover of social media giant Twitter Inc, only to reverse course and proclaim excitement for the looming acquisition.

    In August 2021, the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration opened an investigation into a series of crashes, one of them fatal, involving Teslas equipped with Autopilot slamming into parked emergency vehicles.

    NHTSA officials in June intensified their probe, which covers 830,000 Teslas with Autopilot, identifying 16 crashes involving the company’s electric cars and stationary first-responder and road maintenance vehicles. The move is a step that regulators must take before requesting a recall. The agency had no immediate comment.

    In July this year, the California Department of Motor Vehicles accused Tesla of falsely advertising its Autopilot and Full Self-Driving capability as providing autonomous vehicle control. Tesla filed paperwork with the agency seeking a hearing on the allegations and indicated it intends to defend against them. The DMV said in a statement it is currently in the discovery stage of the proceeding and declined further comment. 

    https://www.reuters.com/legal/exclusive-tesla-faces-us-criminal-probe-over-self-driving-claims-sources-2022-10-26/


    Re: Tesla

    Waste of time. Criminal probe is far from criminal charges. In fact making something civil into criminal makes finding fault a lot more difficult- especially when a) owners are not complaining AND b) there are explicit instructions by the maker on how to use the system (I.e. that you must pay attention and be responsible).  Of course with our famous two tiered system anything is possible if you are on the wrong side of Brandon. Especially if you are against him.  American lawyers - fell free to add value here. 

    Given how much safety Tesla adds thanks to their driver assist system, auto pilot included, it is very telling when regulators step in.  Look at the numbers. A dozen crashes in a million cars. They won’t say how many fatal. No details - again - or if the system was used properly, but yet a criminal probe regardless of how many people saved or damages prevented.  The big numbers don’t matter in politics. Amplify the outrage for your loyal listeners. 
     

    I have to ask myself what the ultimate goal is of these actions?  Are we trying to make driving safer through tech advances or are we trying to let companies who don’t bother with this level of safety catch up?  I can tell you for certain that if Tesla is forced to turn off auto pilot more people will die not less. Period. Of course they will never do that. Their intention is to hurt the company and stock.  Heck if Ford or GM had this tech in the lead none of this type of action would ever happen. Accidents would be swept under the rug. In fact their current systems are horrible and are years behind. Surprise, nobody complains now. 

    bottom line -

    These are propaganda lawsuits threats  that feed some peoples confirmation bias beautifully but go nowhere. Reminds me so much of Orange man does it not?  Maybe just me.  Similar in that in both cases success and good performance is vilified at the expense of ordinary peoples money and security for the benefit of those who can’t compete.  There are no good roadrunner cartoons so I guess these stories will have to do. Just don’t wait for the roadrunner to be caught. That would be silly. 


     
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