Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: It is funny how people... - Page2

May 23, 2005 10:01:37 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002

It is funny how people...

...see all sort of things in the Cayman.

I see only one thing: a Boxster Coupe.
I have to admit that Porsche and the marketing department did a great job to advertise the Cayman, it was an ingenious idea to create a new model from an "old" car.
The Cayman S is a very nice little sports coupe and it may make it's way.
But I still don't understand it's existence because at least by now people should realize that this is NOT the lightweight super cheap racer for 911 wannabees but a Boxster with a fixed roof, a nice rear hatch and a slightly "better" engine. What is wrong with that? Nothing.

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May 23, 2005 10:33:39 PM

MikeN: Senior; Loc: Arizona; Posts: 595, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 4, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: It is funny how people...

Quote:
RC said:
...see all sort of things in the Cayman.
I see only one thing: a Boxster Coupe.
I have to admit that Porsche and the marketing department did a great job to advertise the Cayman, it was an ingenious idea to create a new model from an "old" car.
The Cayman S is a very nice little sports coupe and it may make it's way.
But I still don't understand it's existence because at least by now people should realize that this is NOT the lightweight super cheap racer for 911 wannabees but a Boxster with a fixed roof, a nice rear hatch and a slightly "better" engine. What is wrong with that? Nothing.

I concur.....all this talk about being a baby GT3, extra light chassis, items such as PASM, PCCB, and 19's "thrown in" to offset the cost, yada, yada, yada, was really funny to me. What I thought we were going to get is exactly what we got.....an expensive Boxster Coupe with a little extra HP and torque. As RC said.....nothing wrong with that, but not what a lot of people wanted to see.

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May 23, 2005 10:47:24 PM

Jeannot: Expert; Loc: Currently in Hong-Kong , Switzerland; Posts: 1745, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 13, 2005; Reply to: MikeN

Re: It is funny how people...

Yup...I own a 986S. This thing is never going to be an upgrade the day I'm bored with open roof (if that comes...)...
Certainly not if you have to pay more. Strange concept. Strange name.
Existing chassis + existing engine + marketing + *questionnable* name = the Cayman S...
I am really wondering what was the most costly part to come up with this:
- the engineers to add the roof
- the marketing consultants?
Anybody? :-)

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May 23, 2005 10:52:55 PM

bazza: Expert; Loc: uk,za; Posts: 1393, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 29, 2005; Reply to: Jeannot

Re: It is funny how people...

smart people will go for boxster s

stupid people will go for cayman s

but only if porsche use the cayman to wins lots of competition
than will totally differen story

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May 23, 2005 11:03:54 PM

brunner: Veteran; Loc: E. Europe , Romania; Posts: 1125, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 28, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: It is funny how people...

Quote:
RC said:
...see all sort of things in the Cayman.

Yeah, i remember some guy saying the Cayman might be a test of people's reaction to a 911's successor

And the same guy saying 'a RS model is not likely, but a turbo version is quite possible'?

Or maybe it was Porsche's 'we have returned to the roots'?

Anyway, the Cayman IS a lightweight mid-engined coupe. Something Porsche never had since the 904.
I guess it depends on how one sees the glass: half full or half empty?

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May 23, 2005 11:10:32 PM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: brunner

Re: It is funny how people...

Whats with the picture of the Merc SLK? Isnt this a SPORTSCAR forum?

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May 23, 2005 11:22:13 PM

Martin Tyler: Co-Pilot; Loc: London, UK; Posts: 230, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2003; Reply to: bazza

Re: It is funny how people...

Quote:
bazza said:
smart people will go for boxster s

stupid people will go for cayman s

Smart people will go for whichever they prefer, neither is wrong or stupid.

I dont quite see why it costs more, but if that's what they sell it for and thats the car you want then it's not stupid to buy it. It would be more stupid to buy a Boxster when you didnt want a convertible just because it was a bit cheaper!

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May 24, 2005 1:29:20 AM

mark34: Junior; Loc: Austin, TX; Posts: 62, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2004; Reply to: bazza

Re: It is funny how people...

Quote:
bazza said:
smart people will go for boxster s

stupid people will go for cayman s

cough...insecure...cough

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May 24, 2005 2:12:54 AM

DRA: Junior; Loc: Melbourne , Australia; Posts: 97, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 18, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: It is funny how people...

Quote:
RC said:
...see all sort of things in the Cayman.
I see only one thing: a Boxster Coupe.
I have to admit that Porsche and the marketing department did a great job to advertise the Cayman, it was an ingenious idea to create a new model from an "old" car.
The Cayman S is a very nice little sports coupe and it may make it's way.
But I still don't understand it's existence because at least by now people should realize that this is NOT the lightweight super cheap racer for 911 wannabees but a Boxster with a fixed roof, a nice rear hatch and a slightly "better" engine. What is wrong with that? Nothing.

It could be the beginning of the end for the 911. I know there are going to be lots of people disagreeing with me, but I think Porsche are testing the waters...

If Porsche ever get around to releasing a 2+2 in the mould of the new Aston/Masserati (aka 928 successor) then they will have all their bases covered.

The Cayman ... or at very least, the platform, is the future for Porsche ... If they're smart, we'll see some kick ass racing versions of this car.

Bring on the Cayman Turbo!

(Imagine, for a moment, a Cayman with GT2 power?)

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May 24, 2005 11:36:35 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: brunner

Re: It is funny how people...

Quote:
brunner said:
Quote:
RC said:
...see all sort of things in the Cayman.

Yeah, i remember some guy saying the Cayman might be a test of people's reaction to a 911's successor
And the same guy saying 'a RS model is not likely, but a turbo version is quite possible'?

Or maybe it was Porsche's 'we have returned to the roots'?

Anyway, the Cayman IS a lightweight mid-engined coupe. Something Porsche never had since the 904.
I guess it depends on how one sees the glass: half full or half empty?

brunner, I'm afraid you're not quite right.
I NEVER said that Porsche wants to test people's reaction to a possible 911 successor, I said that Porsche doesn't seem to like it that the 911 is viewed as THE Porsche and they want something to challenge the reputation and tradition of the 911.
People got the lightweight mid engined car they expected? The Boxster is much lighter, so please enlighten me. The performance difference between the Boxster S and the Cayman S is ridiculous, the advantage on the track comes mainly from a stiffer chassis. And it is funny when I hear people talking about the Boxster and the 911 on the track. I don't know many people who can be REALLY fast in a Boxster on the track, simply because the mid engine setup requires very good driving skills. It is easier to be fast in the 911.
So it doesn't help people much if Walter Röhrl is a few seconds faster in the Cayman S compared to the same Walter Röhrl in a 997 Carrera because simply said: nobody can really drive a Cayman the way he does, he helped develop this thing.

In my opinion, Porsche just found out at a certain stage of Boxster Coupe development that people actually don't really want or need a Boxster Coupe. So they found the perfect solution to make the Boxster Coupe a possible success: they gave it a "cool" name(in their opinion...

), the made it look a little bit like a 911, they slightly increased power and found an easy way to re-use the "old" M96 engine and they put out rumours that the Cayman S is gonna be THE mid engined sports car, people have hoped for.

You want to know what most people really hoped for?
The same Cayman S with a different name maybe, even 280 HP "only" but 100 kg less weight than the Boxster S and a lower price tag. Now did we get that? Nope. And if you remember right, I stated this from the beginning...Porsche has to earn money, they're not a charity organization.

I applaude to them how well they did the job...if even people like you, a real enthusiast, believe it.

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May 24, 2005 1:14:30 PM

Gauss: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Luxembourg , Luxembourg; Posts: 5822, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 3, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: It is funny how people...

I think they introduced the Cayman in order to have only one "base" 911 in the future, and not 2, like there are now (the 997 and the 997S). The 998 will be the successor of the current 997S and there won't be a successor to the 997, which place will be replaced by the Cayman series. This is only speculation of course!
All this will result in:
- the 911 being more expensive, hence more exclusive,
- the Cayman, although a car of its own, will nevertheless be the entry coupe for those who might eventually upgrade to a 911 later on.
Porsche is aiming a younger audience with the Cayman and, like RC already said, Porsche needs to make money! And a Cayman sells better than an exclusive, expensive sportscar...

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May 24, 2005 1:28:25 PM

MikeN: Senior; Loc: Arizona; Posts: 595, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 4, 2004; Reply to: Gauss

Re: It is funny how people...

Quote:
Gauss said:
- the Cayman, although a car of its own, will nevertheless be the entry coupe for those who might eventually upgrade to a 911 later on.
Porsche is aiming a younger audience with the Cayman and, like RC already said, Porsche needs to make money! And a Cayman sells better than an exclusive, expensive sportscar...

There's one big problem I see here......$60K (more like $70K if you want to be "proper") is NOT entry level to 99.99999% of the population, and certainly not to buyers younger than Boxster owners. Yes, Porsche needs to make money.....but they sure are getting greedy lately.

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May 24, 2005 1:39:42 PM

Gauss: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Luxembourg , Luxembourg; Posts: 5822, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 3, 2003; Reply to: MikeN

Re: It is funny how people...

Quote:
There's one big problem I see here......$60K (more like $70K if you want to be "proper") is NOT entry level to 99.99999% of the population

That's why I added : the entry coupe for those who might eventually upgrade to a 911 later on

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May 24, 2005 1:43:18 PM

Gauss: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Luxembourg , Luxembourg; Posts: 5822, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 3, 2003; Reply to: Gauss

Re: It is funny how people...

Quote:
but they sure are getting greedy lately.

I agree on that

It's Wendelin Wiedeking's politics, and to be fair, if it wasn't because of him, Porsche would probably belong to another car manufactorer now.

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May 24, 2005 1:58:46 PM

derbaas: Newbie; Loc: Germany; Posts: 29, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 21, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: It is funny how people...

Quote:
RC said:
You want to know what most people really hoped for?
The same Cayman S with a different name maybe, even 280 HP "only" but 100 kg less weight than the Boxster S and a lower price tag. Now did we get that? Nope.

This is really, really true!

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May 24, 2005 2:21:41 PM

MikeN: Senior; Loc: Arizona; Posts: 595, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 4, 2004; Reply to: Gauss

Re: It is funny how people...

Quote:
Gauss said:

Quote:
There's one big problem I see here......$60K (more like $70K if you want to be "proper") is NOT entry level to 99.99999% of the population

That's why I added : the entry coupe for those who might eventually upgrade to a 911 later on

I guess that makes sense for some, but I really don't want a 911, but the idea of a Boxster coupe suits my needs perfectly. No matter what, it shouldn't cost $70K for a properly equipped one. If your goal in the first place is a 911....your right there anyway at $70k.....I still don't see "entry level" anywhere here.

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May 24, 2005 2:29:07 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: brunner

Re: It is funny how people...

Quote:
brunner said:Anyway, the Cayman IS a lightweight mid-engined coupe. Something Porsche never had since the 904.

Wow - it's a sad era when a 3,000 lb Porsche is their lightweight model. The 904 weighed less than half as much (1,430 lbs)...

http://sovren.org/competition/rules/pcs/pcs67/PCS67%20Porsche%20GTS-904.htm

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May 24, 2005 2:30:51 PM

MikeN: Senior; Loc: Arizona; Posts: 595, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 4, 2004; Reply to: Gauss

Re: It is funny how people...

Quote:
Gauss said:

Quote:
but they sure are getting greedy lately.

I agree on that
It's Wendelin Wiedeking's politics, and to be fair, if it wasn't because of him, Porsche would probably belong to another car manufactorer now.

I do agree.....if they were owned by another manufacture they would probably start making SUVs (doing something like sharing a platform and engines with VW), drop out of racing, forget about the purists that made the name Porsche a legend, charge outrageous prices for options, and other interesting moves. Almost sounds like Porsche IS owned by another manufacture.....

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May 24, 2005 2:36:28 PM

Gauss: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Luxembourg , Luxembourg; Posts: 5822, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 3, 2003; Reply to: MikeN

Re: It is funny how people...

Dear MikeN,

I mentioned that in future, I see a "base" 998 (successor to the current 997S) which will be a bit more expensive than the current 997S and that's about it for the 911 "base range". I'm not refering to C4,Targa, GT3, GT2, or Turbo models here.
The lack of a "base" 998 ( non S for that matter) will be filled by the Cayman series, ranging from a possible 2,7 to a turbo model or whatever.
And if you compare the prices of the 2 (Cayman and 998) you will better understand what I mean by the Cayman being an entry level coupe for those who want to get something "bigger" later !

I'm not saying that the Cayman is "cheap", I'm only saying, that the next level is the more expensive 911!

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May 24, 2005 3:00:29 PM

MikeN: Senior; Loc: Arizona; Posts: 595, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 4, 2004; Reply to: Gauss

Re: It is funny how people...

Quote:
Gauss said:
Dear MikeN,

I mentioned that in future, I see a "base" 998 (successor to the current 997S) which will be a bit more expensive than the current 997S and that's about it for the 911 "base range". I'm not refering to C4,Targa, GT3, GT2, or Turbo models here.
The lack of a "base" 998 ( non S for that matter) will be filled by the Cayman series, ranging from a possible 2,7 to a turbo model or whatever.
And if you compare the prices of the 2 (Cayman and 998) you will better understand what I mean by the Cayman being an entry level coupe for those who want to get something "bigger" later !

I'm not saying that the Cayman is "cheap", I'm only saying, that the next level is the more expensive 911!

It could all come true as you state,.....knowing Porsche anything is possible, however my wallet is having a hard time comparing the far in the future "998" with the here today Cayman. I keep telling it that its really the next base 911.....but it's not buying it for some reason.....maybe because it looks and acts so much like a Boxster with a roof!

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May 24, 2005 4:09:49 PM

gb05: Newbie; Loc: USA; Posts: 13, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 27, 2005; Reply to: MikeN

Re: It is funny how people...

What gets me is that I wouldn't be surprised if the Cayman S actually costs less to manufacture than the Boxster S, probably even including the slick "snake oil" ad campaign that wont hit high gear for a few more months. Somewhere, P. T. Barnum is smiling.

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May 24, 2005 4:31:35 PM

zzboba: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Germany; Posts: 3115, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: It is funny how people...

Quote:
...but a Boxster with a fixed roof, a nice rear hatch and a slightly "better" engine. What is wrong with that?

that the fixed roof is way too bulky and that the grilled air inlets and the fog lights make it look aftermarket.

time for a corrective action in photoshop:

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May 24, 2005 4:51:08 PM

Gauss: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Luxembourg , Luxembourg; Posts: 5822, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 3, 2003; Reply to: zzboba

Re: It is funny how people...

Very nice, stretch it a bit and add an additional door, and we have the Panamera

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May 24, 2005 6:56:26 PM

brunner: Veteran; Loc: E. Europe , Romania; Posts: 1125, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 28, 2003; Reply to: Grant

Re: It is funny how people...

Quote:
Grant said:
Quote:
brunner said:Anyway, the Cayman IS a lightweight mid-engined coupe. Something Porsche never had since the 904.

Wow - it's a sad era when a 3,000 lb Porsche is their lightweight model. The 904 weighed less than half as much (1,430 lbs)...

Well, it's sad, but that's the fact

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May 24, 2005 7:03:34 PM

964C2: Expert; Loc: Dallas, TX , United States; Posts: 1825, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: brunner

Re: It is funny how people...

The Cayman S is Porsche's version of the NSX, but at a cheaper price.....

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May 25, 2005 1:45:34 PM

rss996: Junior; Loc: Calif; Posts: 84, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2004; Reply to: 964C2

Re: It is funny how people...

The Cayman is a joke. If it was lighter and faster than maybe one over the boxster. If I want a 2 seater extra car I surely want a drop top not a coupe.

Porsche is going to run into hard times again with all of its greed and engine problems as well.

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May 25, 2005 3:49:28 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: 964C2

Re: It is funny how people...

Quote:
964C2 said:
The Cayman S is Porsche's version of the NSX, but at a cheaper price.....

Yes, much cheaper $58k vs. $89k - Cayman has less weight, more power, better brakes, and more storage space too...

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May 25, 2005 4:40:37 PM

MikeN: Senior; Loc: Arizona; Posts: 595, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 4, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: It is funny how people...

Quote:
Grant said:
Quote:
964C2 said:
The Cayman S is Porsche's version of the NSX, but at a cheaper price.....

Yes, much cheaper $58k vs. $89k - Cayman has less weight, more power, better brakes, and more storage space too...

Cheaper yes....but how will it sell? If my memory serves me right the NSX has come to the point of being shelved many times. In fact I think its just a status car for Acura now.....last report I saw showed them selling only a couple a month.....definitely a money loser.

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May 25, 2005 4:53:45 PM

Martin Tyler: Co-Pilot; Loc: London, UK; Posts: 230, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2003; Reply to: rss996

Re: It is funny how people...

Quote:
rss996 said:If I want a 2 seater extra car I surely want a drop top not a coupe.

The key part of what you say is 'I', you may surely want that, but not everyone thinks like you.

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May 26, 2005 12:53:50 AM

Desmo: Newbie; Loc: montreal, canada; Posts: 34, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: Martin Tyler

Re: It is funny how people...

everybody in this forum tell that this car is comparable to the nsx...what about comparing it to the 300hp nissan350Z which is still half the price AND fully loaded! LSD XENON ELECTRIC SEATS....porsche what are you thinking?

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