Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: PSE "loudness" modification - solution - Page1

May 5, 2005 4:17:40 PM

Porker: Rennteam VIP; Loc: SZ , Switzerland; Posts: 7062, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 17, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: PSE "loudness" modification - solution

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
Porker said:
Is it possible to install aftermarket manifolds and/or cats, after you've installed PSE (which are just mufflers i thought?) This way you have the performance advantage + the great PSE sound...
Just a question...

I don't know for sure but theoretically, it should be possible without major problems.

I'd try different manifolds with high flow cats for a start.
No DME mod. This should add around 10 HP, maybe slightly more in the upper revv range. If you don't like it, add a DME mod. But don't expect more than 20-25 HP if you want to stay on the "safe" side with engine reliability, etc.

If you compare the 381 HP powerkit changes to the standard 355 HP engine, you'll realize pretty fast that a exhaust manifold/high flow cats/DME mod may add the same power to the car but it definetely will cause problems sooner or later.
Rule number one regarding tuning: stay away from normally aspirated engines.
Rule number two regarding tuning: if you really want to do it, change the internal hardware (camshafts, rods, etc.) too.
A "simple" DME mod for a 25 HP gain incl. exhaust/cats mods only kills the engine sooner or later.
It is a different story with turbo charged engines.

Thanks RC!
Do you know what changes they make when you fit the powerkit?

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May 7, 2005 6:03:06 PM

ewi: Pilot; Loc: Germany; Posts: 430, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 21, 2005; Reply to: jo996

Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - solution

Quote:
jo996 said:
Until today the PSE is not available at my dealer in Germany. I am waiting for it!

Same here. I had PSE on the order list. Then I got my order confirmation there was a statement below the list that PSE had still to be confirmed by the manufacturer. Two weeks later I got a second order confirmation telling me to again check my order. They didn't say that they have removed PSE from the list! But since the price has dropped and you all know that Porsche makes no gifts

I checked the list and indeed PSE was missing now

I gave my dealer a call. He said that they have a shortage and are not able to accept orders with PSE. That might change again in a few weeks, who knows. I asked for a paper stating that I will get PSE retrofitted for no additional cost when it is available later. I got it for whatever it's worth, we will see. Maybe I don't want PSE anymore and just go for the chrome-plated tailpipes. IMO the different diameter tailpipes of the PSE look pretty weird. Even more with the bigger tailpipes placed on the outsides

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May 10, 2005 6:13:38 PM

TT Surgeon: Senior; Loc: Long Island, NY , United States; Posts: 783, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 28, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: PSE "loudness" modification - solution

RC, in the US, an automaker can't legally compel a consumer to buy their disposable parts(wear and tear items incld mufflers) with warranty threats. One of the lawyers can chime in, the laws are probably different in europe re this.
Chris

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May 12, 2005 12:13:06 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59580, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: TT Surgeon

Re: PSE "loudness" modification - solution

Quote:
C4S Surgeon said:
RC, in the US, an automaker can't legally compel a consumer to buy their disposable parts(wear and tear items incld mufflers) with warranty threats. One of the lawyers can chime in, the laws are probably different in europe re this.
Chris

I doubt that a sport muffler falls under the same law, we have a similar law over here in Europe, car manufacturers can't force customers to use the original parts for car maintenance but if the manufacturer refuses warranty, the customer has to prove that the parts were at least as "good" as the OEM parts. Easy task, isn't it?!

Regarding the PSE: people are free to get whatever sport exhaust they want. But why would somebody get an aftermarket product if he can get an original product from the car manufacturer, incl. warranty and not to speak about the "original" sound?!
I don't know about the US but over here in Germany if you add aftermarket parts to your Porsche, the value of the car decreases. People want to have "original" cars, modified Porsche cars loose a lot of their value.

And there are more reasons to go for the PSE instead of an aftermarket product but of course people who already bought one and didn't have the patience to wait for the PSE or Tuners who are selling aftermarket sport exhausts, won't agree with ANY reason.

People seem to forget one thing: you can always add high flow cats and different exhaust manifolds even to the PSE. So we're actually talking about the muffler only.

I tried many different exhaust systems in the past for my cars, I also heard a lot of them on other people's cars.
I ended up with two choices: the PSE for the 996/997 and the Cargraphic (actually Phoenix) exhaust for the 996 Turbo and GT2. I find these exhausts very nice and "original" in sound, this is why I like them.

Maybe a little anectode at the end: last year I talked to a Boxster owner who praised his nice (Eisenmann?) exhaust and told me that it sounds great, like the sound of a V8 engine.
Now I asked him why the heck would he like his Boxster to sound like a V8 but he just starred at me and was surprised to hear this question. Sound has different variations and it has different levels of loudness. If I choose a good sport exhaust, I don't want it just to sound aggressive and loud, I want the sound to "match" my car.
Best example: the Cayenne Turbo. Some exhausts I heard sound like a high pitch race exhaust. But the Cayenne is no race car, it sounds ridiculous. Much nicer: a deep growl which ends up in a nice V8 sound crescendo with a bit of screaming in the upper revv range. But for some people, this sound may be too subtle.

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May 12, 2005 12:17:43 PM

Dilinger: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Athens,Greece , Greece; Posts: 2034, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 23, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: PSE "loudness" modification - solution

i agree all car owners tend to seek the LOUDER exhaust.
I want a lound sound but with quality and a character similar to the car its on..

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May 12, 2005 4:40:16 PM

JCF507: Newbie; Loc: Marrakech; Posts: 4, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 11, 2005; Reply to: Dilinger

Re: PSE "loudness" modification - solution

Everyday i read different news BUT first time i'm write !

And for my first time it's for a stupid question : I will have a 997 not 'S' in 3 month and i read this modification but what is the PSE please ?
For this modification - I must change the exhaust or kee the stock one ?
Thank you - Regards

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May 12, 2005 4:45:16 PM

Dilinger: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Athens,Greece , Greece; Posts: 2034, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 23, 2004; Reply to: JCF507

Re: PSE "loudness" modification - solution

PSE= PORSCHE SPORTS EXHAUST

Dont worry about asking "stupid" things, we all have things we dont know..

This modification is for the PSE not stock exhaust..

By the time you got yours the "official" solution will be given

Welcome to the forum

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May 12, 2005 5:10:54 PM

cartouche: Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 399, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 3, 2005; Reply to: JCF507

Re: PSE "loudness" modification - solution

JCF 507, mon pote, don't ask stupid questions, don't answer stupid replies, don't post stupid subjects, and don't talk stupid english : that's MY job !

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May 21, 2005 12:56:54 PM

Jerseybean: Newbie; Loc: NJ; Posts: 5, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 12, 2005; Reply to: cartouche

Re: PSE "loudness" modification - solution

who else has tried this mod so far. what does this plug and switch do (one from the photo).

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May 22, 2005 9:35:13 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59580, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: JCF507

Re: PSE "loudness" modification - solution

Quote:
JCF507 said:
Everyday i read different news BUT first time i'm write !

And for my first time it's for a stupid question : I will have a 997 not 'S' in 3 month and i read this modification but what is the PSE please ?
For this modification - I must change the exhaust or kee the stock one ?
Thank you - Regards

PSE = Porsche Sport Exhaust. This is NOT the standard exhaust on the 997 Carrera. To our knowledge, the PSE also fits the 997 Carrera, not only the S. Unfortunately Porsche doesn't seem to provide this information officially, maybe due to the very limited PSE availability right now.

BTW: the technical approval document I hold in my hand right now states that the PSE is approved for the 997 Carrera too...SAME part number.

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May 22, 2005 9:49:15 PM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: PSE "loudness" modification - solution

RC, what is your opinion of your PSE. Are you glad you got it? Was it worth the price? I will be in the same situation, retrofitting PSE, but I'm concerned about losing the great sound of the normal exhaust.

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May 23, 2005 3:38:22 AM

TT Gasman: Co-Pilot; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 241, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 18, 2002; Reply to: SoCal Alan

Re: PSE "loudness" modification - solution

RC, I dumped my 996 PSE(early 3.4 version) for another aftermarket exhaust. I grew tired of the rattles and parts falling off at the track. So there, now you have heard of somebody.

Doug
'00 996 C2

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May 23, 2005 10:27:19 AM

Dilinger: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Athens,Greece , Greece; Posts: 2034, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 23, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: PSE "loudness" modification - solution

RC, where is the infamous video that you "promised"??

Now dont forget your promises!!!

Still havent received my PSE

Not even news yet

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May 31, 2005 3:36:48 PM

carcam: Junior; Loc: nc, usa; Posts: 118, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 12, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: PSE "loudness" modification - solution

RC,
I can't find where you may have answered this already so sorry if you have...With the sport button activated and the PSE on, does it still "cut off" between 25-35 mph like the 996 PSE? That was so annoying but my tech was able to fix that without disconnecting anything and still had the switch working for occasional quiet rides. It's probably too early to know how to eliminate the cut off and still retain the switch, if it does cut off. Thanks

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May 31, 2005 4:02:34 PM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: carcam

Re: PSE "loudness" modification - solution

Quote:
kkeating said:
RC,
I can't find where you may have answered this already so sorry if you have...With the sport button activated and the PSE on, does it still "cut off" between 25-35 mph like the 996 PSE? That was so annoying but my tech was able to fix that without disconnecting anything and still had the switch working for occasional quiet rides. It's probably too early to know how to eliminate the cut off and still retain the switch, if it does cut off. Thanks

There were two separate fixes so far: RC's fix, which enables PSE on all the time, regardless of the switch setting. You do not have an ability to turn it off from the switch. Seven's fix disables the 25-35 MPH cutoff, while still utilizing the switch allowing you to have PSE on when you want it on.

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Jun 4, 2005 8:47:46 PM

dominic: Newbie; Loc:; Posts: 27, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 21, 2003; Reply to: SoCal Alan

Re: PSE "loudness" modification - solution

Now online for clips and more pics for our 997CS exhaust system.
www.tranchet-trading.com

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Jun 7, 2005 5:03:14 PM

adam s: Junior; Loc: California; Posts: 93, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 20, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - solution

does any one know if teh PSE ads any weight when compared to the stanard exhaust? I do track days and weight saving is importnat... anyone?

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Jun 11, 2005 12:08:39 AM

DD694: Co-Pilot; Loc: SoCalifornia, USA; Posts: 281, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 16, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: PSE "loudness" modification - solution

When I had a PSE installed on my 2000 996 Carrera 4 the technician showed me how to make a similar modification for full-time PSE "ON". He also gave me a small plug to place in the open end of the hose removed from the actuator valve and a cap to place over the now open tube on the actuator valve. These kept any dirt from entering these two now open points and intruding into the system.

I imagine a plug in this hose on the 997S/997 PSE also would be a good idea.

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Jun 14, 2005 10:00:10 PM

bluelines: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Argovia , Switzerland; Posts: 11655, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 29, 2005; Reply to: DD694

Re: PSE "loudness" modification - solution

Any news on a DME upgrade to remove the cut-off on the PSE? The RC mod clearly works, and does so very well, but still it would be nice to deactivate the PSE with the press of a button.

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Jun 15, 2005 9:11:36 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59580, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: bluelines

Re: PSE "loudness" modification - solution

Quote:
bluelines said:
Any news on a DME upgrade to remove the cut-off on the PSE? The RC mod clearly works, and does so very well, but still it would be nice to deactivate the PSE with the press of a button.

I'm afraid there is no solution yet and I also doubt there will be one in the future. Porsche won't offer one (for legal reasons) and Tuners may not be interested in such a mod. And another downside of such a mod: it may void the car warranty because the software will be modified.
I got used to the "always on" solution, it isn't perfect but at least the car sounds now like every 911 should.

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Jun 15, 2005 9:56:50 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21148, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: PSE "loudness" modification - solution

RC, thanks for the permanent PSE solution BTW. Its not perfect but its much better than stock

Maybe we could have a switch installed right were that hose connects that would open or close the hose with a button inside the cabin. That way the cut-off is avoided and the PSE can be on independantly of the Sport Chrono button, this would be perfect

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Jun 15, 2005 10:35:51 PM

DD694: Co-Pilot; Loc: SoCalifornia, USA; Posts: 281, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 16, 2004; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: PSE "loudness" modification - solution

Carlos, I think this is the best solution to the problem on controlling the PSE. It would be fairly simple to implement, I think. As RC points out, for legal reasons PAG will never offer any such solution. It would be nice to have the option of turning PSE OFF or ON independent of the Sport Chrono button. You could then also revert to the standard PSE operation at the push of a button.

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Jul 3, 2005 10:02:40 AM

Alex18_996CC: Rennteam Master; Loc: Madrid , Spain; Posts: 3218, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 13, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - solution

Could someone post a picture with the rubber hose pulled off!!!!...I know it sounds

, but I just need to be sure what to do.....

Carlos, has explained me everything what to do

, but I would like to see a pic of the final touch modification!!!

PSE is gonna be install in our 997S next week, so I would really appreciate to see how is the rubber hose pulled off, in order to be 100% sure, once I do that

..

Yeah finally after more than 3 MONTHS of waiting for being retrofit, it has finally arrived to the dealer!!!!!!

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Jul 3, 2005 3:18:53 PM

altak: Junior; Loc: Greece , Greece; Posts: 73, Gallery; Registered on: May 5, 2005; Reply to: Alex18_996CC

Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - solution

here is the pic

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Jul 3, 2005 3:24:15 PM

altak: Junior; Loc: Greece , Greece; Posts: 73, Gallery; Registered on: May 5, 2005; Reply to: altak

Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - solution

sorry

/uploads/115869-1pic.bmp

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Jul 3, 2005 3:26:35 PM

altak: Junior; Loc: Greece , Greece; Posts: 73, Gallery; Registered on: May 5, 2005; Reply to: altak

Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - solution

something is wrong with tthe file
look at the begining of this topic, page 1.

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Jul 3, 2005 4:42:07 PM

Alex18_996CC: Rennteam Master; Loc: Madrid , Spain; Posts: 3218, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 13, 2004; Reply to: altak

Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - solution

Ohhhh!!!!!!...So the picture in page 1, as you refer.....Shows the rubber hose pulled off?????????

, cause I can't appreciate it

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Jul 5, 2005 11:58:12 AM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21148, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Alex18_996CC

Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - solution

Here you go Alex, picture is pretty self explanatory. The tube is unplugged and both ends are taped closed with black tape (cinta aislante) and then the tube is itself taped to the other tube next to it so that it doesn't move around now that its loose.

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Jul 5, 2005 2:02:50 PM

Alex18_996CC: Rennteam Master; Loc: Madrid , Spain; Posts: 3218, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 13, 2004; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - solution

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Here you go Alex, picture is pretty self explanatory. The tube is unplugged and both ends are taped closed with black tape (cinta aislante) and then the tube is itself taped to the other tube next to it so that it doesn't move around now that its loose.

Many many thanks carlos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I'm 110% sure of what to do!!!!!......
Tomorrow the car is going to the dealer!!!!, so lets see how it ends up

Again thanks for your pic, and the superb description!!!

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Jul 9, 2005 5:18:20 PM

996cal: Pilot; Loc: PDK , United States; Posts: 488, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 22, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Porsche Sport Exhaust "loudness" modification - solution

RC my dealer just unplugged the orange connector in your pic
to make the PSE loud all the time and not have the system be speed activated, if i also unplug the rubber hose on my 99 996 c2 with PSE will it be even louder?

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