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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Today I took the 918 out of storage and drove it to the dealership to give it a one over to prepare for the long 8000km road trip to Indianapolis. Gonna take 2 weeks. And a few thousands of dollars. 

    Lately I have been driving EVs and hybrids and boy what a delight to be in a raw, pure car. 

    The start up sound, the vibration from the engine rocking the chassis, the exhaust note going up and down with speed. 

    The seat is uncomfortable, the cockpit cramped, but I don't care. Just listening to that wonderful V8 sings is more than satisfying. 

    I didn't even bother to put the car in EV or hybrid mode, it's Race Mode all the way. 

    Future pure EV generation will be missing so much. 

    It's not that the Taycan is a bad car, it is a wonderful automobile, it has all the Porsche DNA and fingerprints, it's a proper Porsche. But the 918 is Porsche's best car ever. There is simply no comparison. 

    Arguably, the 918 has one of the top 3 exhaust note of ANY Porsche ever. The 991 RSR has the best, bar none. It's a toss up for the V10 CGT or the V8 in the 918, depending on who is answering. 

    If only Porsche could synthesize the V10 or the V8 noise into the Taycan as engine sound.........


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Agree.  I certainly believe that the future direction is toward EV‘s, and I support that direction. But I attended the New York City formula E this past weekend, and was so underwhelmed that I left after the first day. There’s absolutely nothing exciting about the cars, or the race, or especially the whistling almost silent sound of the cars. Surely I understand why Porsche is involved—test bed for battery efficiency and powertrain adaptation, etc.,- but I felt like I was watching some type of slightly larger slot car race. A 45 minute race with no pit stops, no sound, no drama– it’s almost silly. Imagine an NFL hockey game or World Cup soccer match with no audience sound. Sad, but good news for anyone who still enjoys the unique, guttural, raw and powerful sound of modern day race/street cars.


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    I hope you post a lot of pics of the road-trip 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    2023 model year software status for all Taycan variants

    Worldwide, more than 75,000 examples of the Taycan have been delivered since Porsche introduced its first all-electric sports car at the end of 2019. Now, a comprehensive update is on the horizon: regardless of vehicle age, engine, and body, all model variants can be brought up to the status of the 2023 model year with a software update. The update will be implemented on a market-specific basis.

    20/07/2022

    Taycan Sports Sedan Models, Taycan Cross Turismo Models, 2022, Porsche AG

    Worldwide, more than 75,000 examples of the Taycan have been delivered since Porsche introduced its first all-electric sports car at the end of 2019. Now, a comprehensive update is on the horizon: regardless of vehicle age, engine, and body, all model variants can be brought up to the status of the 2023 model year with a software update. The update will be implemented on a market-specific basis.

    Depending on when their vehicle was delivered, customers will benefit from, among other things, an increase in powertrain efficiency as well as new functions and improvements in the Porsche Communication Management (PCM), Porsche Connect and assistance systems. The update also includes the option of having individual functions and equipment unlocked after purchase (function on demand, FoD) and will enhance the over-the-air (OTA) update capability of all Taycan models. The update is free for customers, and can be carried out during a visit to a Porsche service workshop.

    Taycan Turbo S, 2022, Porsche AG

    Taycan Software Update

    “This campaign will allow our customers to benefit from the continuous further development of the Taycan. We have extensively optimised the model series in almost every respect since 2019,” says Kevin Giek, Vice President Model Line Taycan. “New functions have been added and others have been revised or tweaked to further enhance the customer experience. Following this update, anyone driving a Taycan from early in the car’s production run will be pleasantly surprised by how much has developed on the vehicle side since then.” Internally, Porsche refers to this as the ‘uPdate’, because the 2023 model year, which started in July 2022, bears the letter ‘P’.

    The precise scope of the update, and the duration of the necessary workshop visit, depend on the specific software status of the Taycan in question. The older the car is, the more improvements and innovations will be installed.

    Taycan 4S Cross Turismo, Taycan Turbo S Cross Turismo, 2022, Porsche AG

    The older the car is, the more improvements and innovations will be installed

    The 22 kW onboard charger has now also recently become available for retrofitting1. Customers can combine this retrofit at their own expense with a workshop visit for the software update. With up to 22 kW of charging capacity, the more powerful variant charges the battery significantly faster. In Europe and North America, the retrofit also includes activation of the Plug & Charge function. This enables convenient charging and payment without a card or app. As soon as the charging cable is plugged in, the Taycan establishes encrypted communication with the Plug & Charge-compatible charging station. The charging and payment processes then start automatically.

    The most important updates at a glance

    • Powertrain: in the ‘Normal’ and ‘Range’ driving modes in all-wheel drive models, in partial load operation the front electric motor is almost completely disconnected and de-energised. While coasting and at a standstill, both axles are free of drive torque. The electric freewheel reduces frictional drag losses and increases the vehicle’s range. The all-wheel drive indicator is now shown as an energy-flow indicator in the central display. This makes the current operating status of the drives easier to see. The energy recuperation strategy has also been optimised. The automatic recuperation setting, for example, is retained even when the driver changes the driving programme. Added convenience for the customer. These improvements are relevant for Taycan models from the 2020 and 2021 model years.2
       
    • Thermal management: better conditioning of the battery, especially at low outside temperatures, enables the Taycan to be rapidly charged more frequently overall and over a wider range of battery charge levels (SoC). The waste heat from the electrical components, for example, is used even more than before to temper the battery. For 2020 and 2021² model-year Taycan models, this enables greater range and shorter charging times.
       

    Taycan GTS, Taycan GTS Sport Turismo, 2022, Porsche AG

    The update is free for customers, will be offered worldwide and can be carried out during a visit to a Porsche service workshop

    • Porsche Communication Management (PCM) and Porsche Connect: new functions, a colourful tile design on the start screen and even greater ease of use are the hallmarks of the model upgrades in this area. In Taycan models produced in the 2020 and 2021 model years and up to mid-February 2022, the update optimises the voice control and integrates the Spotify® app. Android Auto® is available wirelessly. Charging stations can be filtered and selected in the navigation system based on charging capacity. Drivers of 2021 model year Taycan models with a head-up display can look forward to the optimised view of the navigation map, among other elements. The display contents have been expanded. For all Taycan models prior to the 2023 model year, the on-board operating instructions can now also be used via voice control.
       
    • Assistance systems: some systems can now support the driver in even more situations. The sensors of the ParkAssist function now work with a greater range. The search for available parking spaces has been improved as well, so that now even smaller spaces are offered to the driver as an option. These enhancements will benefit Taycan models from the 2020, 2021 and 2022 model years.
       
    • Unlocking functions after vehicle purchase (FoD): all Taycan models of from the 2020, 2021 and 2022 model years are now also eligible, on request, for the keyless opening function (comfort access) for the doors and tailgate. The option of over-the-air (OTA) software updates has now also been further expanded for the new model year.
       

    Info

    1 Currently no offer for South Korea and Canada.

    2 Already standard in later models.


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    I’m really trying to be excited about the Taycan but the side view just bores me. 
    Are there any rumors of a 2 door with a more sporty look?  


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    My Taycan built on July4th with a first delivery date in August and then moved to September just got a new delivery date of end of November. Wow things are really messed up at the port in Germany and shipping. 


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    2022 992 GT3. 2019 BMW M850i Convertible. 2020 Tesla Model 3 Performance. 2020 Aston Martin Vantage. 2020 Mclaren 720S coupe. 🥳


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Geez, that’s discouraging.  My GTS, scheduled to be built on July 5, has not yet been built. Guess I’m looking at next year🥲


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    So more updates on my EVs. Don't quite have a thread for them so I am just gonna post it all here.

    Winter is here. We had snowed. Temperature is below freezing. This is basically my 3rd winter with a Taycan, 2 with a sedan and 1st with the wagon. The standard range drop from the temperature for the Taycan is basically 10%. Standard meaning the car's own estimation on a full charge. I am down to 380-390km from 420 ish in the summer. Real world driving range is about par for that, I still charge them up at around 10% and did like 350-360km for that 90% used.

    My old e-Tron had a similar drop, going from about 360 or so to 320km with the temperature drop. 

    Those Germans got the 'protection' right for the battery charge.

    As for the Americans. Oh boy. It isn't pretty.

    The Mach E, goes from a 460-470km full charge in the summer to 300. yes, 300km. I did do a 310km down to 9% from that estimate. But still.

    The Lightning. Don't quite have the full estimated range when warm as when I picked it up it was already cold. Right now however with the Mach E giving me a 300km range for a full charge, the Lightning is giving me 370km. Still on that charge not empty yet so can't quite tell how long I can drive in that condition.

    I had my Panamera turbo S parked for quite a long time after I had took delivery of the pink pig. I just recently reactivated the car to drive also. First thought, GOD I LOVE THIS CAR!

    At this very moment, if I went to only keep either the Panamera or the Taycan wagon, the Taycan will go in a heart beat. No contest.

    Panamera is just simply a better car. Everything the Taycan can do, the Panamera do it much much better. Much roomier for passenger and cargo, more comfortable, much much better ergonomics, putting all functions on touch screens is such a mistake; both get HOV sticker and the nominal range of the Panamera is literally double that of the Taycan. Max I ever did in a Taycan was 430km, while max I did in the Panamera was 870km on mostly highway. I refuel the Panamera in 5 mins, while it is about 20mins or so in the Taycan and it's not even full. My gf also said like oh boy she misses so much the engine noise. It's like men playing with boys. Now for those that wanted to say man EV accelerate faster.......I have a 918, it is still the fastest 0-60 car in the world, I also have the Exclusive, which is basically the 2nd fastest 0-60 car. While my Taycans are 4Ss, not turbo S, I have done launch controls in a Taycan turbo. They are approaching 918 level, not quite there, likely not even the turbo S version of the Taycan. But all these cars got nothing on the violence of such a launch on a Panamera turbo S. I had people gotten sick within that 3 second window.

    Still not sure if EVs are 'the future'. Honestly they are like the least difficult 'future', even after driving like 8 different EVs now. They are lovely as a transportation device, they are also lovely to take advantage of government help, but outside of those 2 attributes, not sure it fulfills anything else. My gf, who is definitely not a car gal, had more satisfaction driving the Panamera over the Taycan, which she had been doing for the longest time. That speak volumes about the 'excitement' of EVs. I mean I love the Lightning, I love the instant torque from the electric motors for when I needed power, but the powertrain basically just acted like a diesel truck, instant low end power, runs out of breath at the high end just the same. Except in a diesel I can go much much farther and also tow much much more and also refuel much much faster. Well at least the Lightning rides much better than the diesels. 

    One thing that's going for in the Lightning, I feel VERY safe in one. I trust physics, and riding in a 7000lb truck feels much safer than a 3000lb car. F-=ma don't lie. While the Lightning don't have the greatest 'fuel economy' among EVs, it's moot point since I am charging at home for next to nothing. And range also is a moot point as if I wanted, I can charge every night and start off in the morning with a full charge. Pointless point but still something people wanted to boast about.

    Got another couple weeks in town before I retire to Whistler for Christmas till end of year using my Wrangler 4xe. Yes, I do trust and love hybrids more than pure EVs. They are the best of both worlds.

     

     

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    EVs are the future because climate change, politics and car industry want it to be the future.

    Not sure where hybrids will fit in later on and I'm also not so sure about hydrogen in private cars, I guess hydrogen will be more suitable for trucks and maybe even airplanes, for a while at least.

    It is interesting that you prefer the Panamera over the Taycan but maybe a Taycan Turbo S could change your mind? The latest versions seem to run quite well from what I heard and making someone sick in a Taycan Turbo S is quite possible, I did that with both my kids indecision and they are usually used to my driving. 

    Have you ever thought about getting a Tesla S Plaid?   


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Still waiting for my Taycan Turbo built in July. V12 battery shortages caused the delay. It’s finally on a boat and hopefully here next week. 


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    2022 992 GT3. 2019 BMW M850i Convertible. 2020 Tesla Model 3 Performance. 2020 Aston Martin Vantage. 2020 Mclaren 720S coupe. 🥳


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Some interesting news during the Tesla Semi delivery day. 1 MW charging and 1000 volt architecture. This will also apply to the Cybertruck when delivered.  Lots of other stuff that I won’t bore anyone with. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    RC:

    EVs are the future because climate change, politics and car industry want it to be the future.

    Not sure where hybrids will fit in later on and I'm also not so sure about hydrogen in private cars, I guess hydrogen will be more suitable for trucks and maybe even airplanes, for a while at least.

    It is interesting that you prefer the Panamera over the Taycan but maybe a Taycan Turbo S could change your mind? The latest versions seem to run quite well from what I heard and making someone sick in a Taycan Turbo S is quite possible, I did that with both my kids indecision and they are usually used to my driving. 

    Have you ever thought about getting a Tesla S Plaid?   

     

    It's not about the power. 

    It's about basic ergonomics. Everything just feel more natural with the Panamera interior. Switches and stuff are all logically laid out. Some frequently used functions can be used without looking for it. Seat is more comfortable, roomier car.

    My Panamera turbo S is fully loaded with leather everything, I also spec-ed my Taycan with leather everything too to match, but somehow, the Panamera interior feels just that bit more luxurious. 

    If it's only about power, then yes the Taycan fits the bill quite nicely, my Taycan 4S is almost comparable to my Panamera turbo S.

    Panamera is slightly narrower than the Taycan, comes in useful around town at times.

    As for the Tesla Model S Plaid, well in their current form they do not interest me, interior and content is still way below par for what they charges for one. I expect interior trim level to least least matches Cadillac, Lexus. Not even trying to hold to up to the German standard. Heck, if they can only matches Ford's. My 2 Ford EVs have exceptional interiors, well above the level of their asking prices, that's called quality. 

    I mean, if Hyundai can put a superior interior together in the Ioniq 5 for a price that's well under a Model 3, there is zero excuse to not do a better job from Tesla. 

    Tesla wanted themselves to be considered a 'luxury' brand, well start offering luxurious interior, and not just giving us Corolla interior. 

     

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:

    Some interesting news during the Tesla Semi delivery day. 1 MW charging and 1000 volt architecture. This will also apply to the Cybertruck when delivered.  Lots of other stuff that I won’t bore anyone with. 

     

    About time Elon throw in the towel and admit next gen high voltage is better. Just a few years too late, now they are playing catch up. 

    Not to mention their legacy charging network that will need upgrading. And a whole fleet of out of date 400V cars. Upgrading their charging network will be hyper expensive if not impossible.

    Semi is a step in the right direction, but the net carrying capacity isn't disclosed unfortunately. It needed to be comparable to current diesel rigs if not too far behind. 

    Cybertruck, hmm, one might get theirs when after I get my 2nd gen Lightning..........

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2022/12/02/switzerland-wonders-if-electric-car-use-should-be-curtailed-in-power-emergencies/?sh=78ce639910b1

    Once again, more proof that infrastructure is the key for EV adoption. 

    Switzerland might run out of electricity and what do they do? Restrict EVs, on top of other stuff.

    California was in a similar spot before where they are telling people not to charge their EVs.

    Politicians that blindly push for EVs have no idea electricity is actually needed in order to charge up EVs. They think electricity is just magic, they plug in something to the wall and voila! Power coming out. 

    For their current push for EVs, they should have started the infrastructure upgrades a couple decades ago to prepare. 

    And for European politicians it's especially worse with the Ukraine conflict. On one hand winter is coming, they needed extra energy just for basic needs, on the other hand after decades of paying Russians for energy, they don't have alternate sources that can take up the slacks. To add salt to injury, the green fractions within each country are strongly opposed to nuclear while at the same time strongly pushing for EVs. Now where would the energy needed come from? 

    Fun time to watch the politicians trying to juggle the impossible. 


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    The simple solution will be to implement bi directional charging and then use the family car to load balance the grid. Charge at night when power is cheapest and run the house off the car batteries if the price goes up because the grid is running low or just because you can. Not much more to say here. It is just like a computer cashing memory and disk space. Add a bit of solar to some of these homes and you dependence on the grid becomes minor. In this sophisticated tech world this concern was so nothing other than a business opportunity. 
    With solar your own home becomes a type of hybrid house. Now who is not a fan of a good hybrid?  Out here in Kansas you can even buy houses with their own natural gas well. Imagine the possibilities. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:

    The simple solution will be to implement bi directional charging and then use the family car to load balance the grid. Charge at night when power is cheapest and run the house off the car batteries if the price goes up because the grid is running low or just because you can. Not much more to say here. It is just like a computer cashing memory and disk space. Add a bit of solar to some of these homes and you dependence on the grid becomes minor. In this sophisticated tech world this concern was so nothing other than a business opportunity. 
    With solar your own home becomes a type of hybrid house. Now who is not a fan of a good hybrid?  Out here in Kansas you can even buy houses with their own natural gas well. Imagine the possibilities. 

     

    You don't quite get it do you? Europe don't have enough energy to start off with. Nordstream is gone. That's a big chunk of energy gone already. The nuclear plants are mostly winded down also. 

    And 'bi-directional' charging is still considered infrastructure stuff, which is what I have been saying for the longest time. They don't just suddenly appear overnight in houses. You know how many households there are in Switzerland that needed that upgrade? And I am not even sure Ford sells the Lightning and also their bi-directional charger there.


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    I certainly do get it. 
    It is infrastructure local to the house only. You need a car which can do it and a connection to your home via the charger.  You don’t need to feed power back to the grid, you just use the grid when optimal. 
    I agree the Ford lightning or the Rivian or Tesla have all not provided this feature although they all talk about it. It will have to come. Just a matter of time. 
    The actual amount of electric power these cars use is minimal. My power bill of my car is around $12 per month or less than 50 cents a day.  More energy than that is wasted providing gas to gas stations, operating them and cars traveling to them.  Overall this will be a huge net energy gain and savings. It is just a transition and it will take time and as we can see - a ton of more batteries.  Batteries and new tech to make them is the fulcrum. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    You, and your one car.

    I alone have 3 EVs and 3 hybrids to charge. If I get both my chargers going, I am sucking over 20kW an hour. 

    You get a 'green' neighbourhood with everyone driving EVs, there could be 20-40 EVs getting charged up at night, that's like 400kW an hour of power draw. 

    Switzerland has hundreds of thousands more EVs. It scaled up VERY quickly. Not to mention all of Europe.

    Every house will need to be re-fitted. Permits acquired and electricians scheduled. These are not trivial. 

    BTW, Elon hasn't figure out how to do bi-directional yet? Ford has. The super high power 100A bi-directional Ford charger is sitting in it's box in my garage right now, can't be bothered to install it as I already have a 25kW natural gas backup generator. 

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:

    The simple solution will be to implement bi directional charging and then use the family car to load balance the grid. Charge at night when power is cheapest and run the house off the car batteries if the price goes up because the grid is running low or just because you can. Not much more to say here. It is just like a computer cashing memory and disk space. Add a bit of solar to some of these homes and you dependence on the grid becomes minor. In this sophisticated tech world this concern was so nothing other than a business opportunity. 
    With solar your own home becomes a type of hybrid house. Now who is not a fan of a good hybrid?  Out here in Kansas you can even buy houses with their own natural gas well. Imagine the possibilities. 

    Not sure how that is going to work though, the range is already a problem in EV, how much juice can you take out of it to power a house?

    and when you grab your car to go somewhere you may find yourself you can't go where you wanted to go because you don't have enough battery?

    and it's not like a ICE that you can charge in 5 minutes and you are good to go again with full range.

    Also the family car may not be at home to power the house when you want it which is during the day.

    And if EVs become mainstream many people can't hook up the car to their grid because they live in apartments/buildings.

    So IMO I'm not sure the real world practical application of that is significant to make an impact on the problem Smiley


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    He drank too much Tesla KoolAid that talks about the 'lack' of battery is the bottleneck, that's Elon's excuse for not making enough cars. And he proceed to spread even more fake stuff about the everything will be fine if all households are hooked up to a battery from a EV 🤦🏻‍♂️.  leaving one very important thing out, where, is the energy gonna come from? EV takes energy from the house to charge up, but it will also needed to power up the house, which also takes away from the range. Does Elon thinks energy just magically sucked into the car somewhere? 

    Smart people have already figured out it's the infrastructure that's the bottleneck. Modern society, cities, nations, aren't built around EVs, to switch over to EV means everything needed to be upsized, that's money governments and individuals aren't able to or willing to spend yet. Not to mention some governments' resistance to clean reliable sable energy source like nuclear. 

    One can have all the batteries in the world and if there aren't enough energy to fill them up, they are just expensive, toxic  paper weights. Some claim solar is the magic bullet, yeah, but panels still needed to be produced and installed and hooked up, that's another infrastructure item. Wind farm? Turbines needed to be produced and installed also. 

    In Europe right now, heating homes, keeping the lights in the winter on is more important than charging up EVs. 


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Back to the proven debate tactics I see. 
    fyi even if you have four EVs you can only drive one at a time and for so many miles. But it is very impressive that you have so many. It just does not make your point very meaningful at all. 
    Carlos - even an average EV charging at home will have 200 miles plus ready to go each morning. If you are charging that at night at home 43 miles per hour is what I generally see with my car. Range is really not an issue and that car can run the average home for five days.  Software does the load balancing. 
    In terms of Tesla not doing this already - the cars do not have this hardware installed presently.  To say they have not figured it out overlooks the Tesla power wall totally. It is nothing more than an EV battery with bi directional charging. They have trading software that even integrates with the grid so that homes can become mini power stations. 
     

    everything I have said I more than obvious and has nothing to do with Tesla as much as with the transition and tech being invented and deployed already. If you want to argue this or make it some kind of running joke you are welcome to embarrass yourself further with stories and analogies


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    it's not called tactics, it's called telling you the truth. 🤷🏻‍♂️ 🤦🏻‍♂️

    What if Elon magically got 10x more battery supply than he currently has overnight, does that solve the problem? No, cause now there are 10x more car batteries that need energy to charge up. That just mean more strain on the grid. 

    Leave them empty while waiting for 'cheap' power to fill them up? Then they are nothing more than expensive paper weights. It does nothing to help. 

    On the flip side, what if magically overnight, all the gas stations in the world each have 10 fast EV chargers, like literally around every corner, and they can fully charge a EV in 5 mins. Do you think people will start buying more EVs? Absolutely. 

    The water hose is only so big, having more buckets doesn't make filling buckets any faster or easier. But a bigger hose will. If one uses your idea of nah, that isn't a problem, keep the bucket empty until no one is using the hose so I can fill the buckets, then you will be in for a long long wait and the hose is already running non-stop for everyone else. 

     

    One last thing, go to your garage, go check that charger Tesla gave you. Is it bi-directional? No? The one Ford gave me is. 

    We can do this endlessly, you know you are just arguing for argument sake. You are just repeating what Elon 'promised'. And we all know about the expiry dates of his promises. he doesn't have a decent track record. 

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Interesting discussion.

    First on Carlos with the “range” issue. Having an Taycan for 2 years I can assure you the range is not a problem. I drive app 15.000 km per year and about 5-10 % of time I charge outside my home. Most of the time I only need to charge a relative short time since I seldom come home with an empty battery. Infra structure wise I never had a problem on my trips in Europe. France for example has an excellent fast charging infrastructure. This weekend I was in Amsterdam and in the parking garage there were 60 charging points. In the city of Amsterdam there are over 5000 charging points.

    Where Woopsy has a point (to my opinion) is the capacity of power net. In Eupora and specially in Holland they are promoting (forcing) people stop using gas as heating for houses and promoting heat pumps. This in combination with the fast growing electric car community will cause a problem.

    The question is how they are going to make all the power. Germany is a very bad spot the decided to shut down all nuclear power plants and move to renewable energy. I don’t know how this is going to work. Holland has decided to allow again the coal power plants since the gas is too expensive from Russia. So from one hand electrical cars are promoted and on the other side more Co2 is produced!


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Whoopsy:

    it's not called tactics, it's called telling you the truth. 🤷🏻‍♂️ 🤦🏻‍♂️

    What if Elon magically got 10x more battery supply than he currently has overnight, does that solve the problem? No, cause now there are 10x more car batteries that need energy to charge up. That just mean more strain on the grid. 

    Leave them empty while waiting for 'cheap' power to fill them up? Then they are nothing more than expensive paper weights. It does nothing to help. 

    On the flip side, what if magically overnight, all the gas stations in the world each have 10 fast EV chargers, like literally around every corner, and they can fully charge a EV in 5 mins. Do you think people will start buying more EVs? Absolutely. 

    The water hose is only so big, having more buckets doesn't make filling buckets any faster or easier. But a bigger hose will. If one uses your idea of nah, that isn't a problem, keep the bucket empty until no one is using the hose so I can fill the buckets, then you will be in for a long long wait and the hose is already running non-stop for everyone else. 

     

    One last thing, go to your garage, go check that charger Tesla gave you. Is it bi-directional? No? The one Ford gave me is. 

    We can do this endlessly, you know you are just arguing for argument sake. You are just repeating what Elon 'promised'. And we all know about the expiry dates of his promises. he doesn't have a decent track record. 

     

    Truth is not the tactic I was referring to. 
    It is like you don’t see or read anything I write and just go in and on about Elon or try to steer the discussion to fit a disparaging remark. 
    Are you arguing that bi directional charging is of no use in the future?  That all EVs need to succeed are thousands of super chargers on every corner?  I don’t see Laundromats on every street corner because people own their own high power washer and dryer.  Do you own your phone just because you can charge it at expensive public charging stations or do you charge it at home while you sleep?  I would never own an EV I need to go and supercharge. The whole point is to charge when not needed.  ( prepare for rant about not everyone having a house - somehow parking spaces can’t have AC power nearby according to some) 

    1) I stated several times that Tesla cars do not currently charge both ways. Obviously the Tesla power wall can. And the Ford can and Rivian will. 
    2) 95% of the time EVs will be charged wilhile parking at home or apartment. Supercharging is not done frequently which most EV owners understand well. The actual amount of power used by the car represents an overall savings over the present consumption involved in delivering and filling my up gas.  Can you tell me how many Kw you use for your cars each month?  All four of them?  It is not much.  The amount of good bi directional charging can do far exceeds its drain from the grid.
    3) your analogies are hilarious. Batteries can and will be used to load balance the grid and or run our homes. I’m not going out on a limb here as this is already being done. 
     

    Your point about Elon’s track record of success is about as accurate as your other observations.  We do know about his track record. Thank you.  Name me a more successful person. Silence. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Mike, because whatever you wrote about it's about the battery not the grid and using EVs as back up are all Elon's bullet points on his PowerPoint presentations. 

    Having batteries is useless without the power to charge them up first. And infrastructure is much more than just high power quick chargers, it's also about the last mile delivery of electricity. That little transformer up on the pole that supply to the whole block? Yeah, that little thing too. Your wall charger? The high power breaker? That's infrastructure too. You are confusing infrastructure upgrade as only for Superchargers, it isn't. 

    A dryer, at most runs for 2 hrs. That's only a 30A load max, and it doesn't even stay at 30A for the whole drying cycle. A EV chargers draws 40A if not more, and that's continuous for 8-10hrs. 

    An average home draws about 2-3kW pre-EV, at times spikes to about 6-8kW. That's the number electric companies sized their local transformers for neighbourhoods. Your Tesla charges at 9.6kW, newer chargers can draw up to 19.2kW. See the mismatch? It doesn't take that many EVs 'charging at home' to exceed the local transformer. 

    Some EV owners charges every night to top up, some others do it every few days when it's empty, so not all owners will be charging at once at the same time, that theoretical peak load is just that, theoretical. But can it happen? It's a non-zero possibility. Which also means older neighbourhoods will need transformer upgrades, which cost money, and power companies aren't known for investing. Newer developments will have accounted fro EVs and size up the transformers so the problem is less likely to happen. But majority of people aren't living in new neighbourhoods. 

    This is just for 'low power' home charging. We haven't even gotten to 'mid-power' convenience fast chargers, like those 50kW mall chargers. Much less 200+kW 'fast chargers'. 

    The utopia of EVs as load balancers for the electric grid is a nice pipe dream, but not going to happen. The cost up front is already the first road block. See no farther than home solar as a supplement to the grid, only a very minority of people are taking advantage of that. 

    While electric girds are mostly connected geographically, the power that flow though them aren't connected. Here where I live, we have abundance of power, cheap clean hydro power. Enough to support the highest concentration of EVs in the world. Our power company are also on point with transformers so it would seems like we have unlimited capacity. But down the coast at California, they still have rolling blackouts, even the Governor has come out and asked people to not charge their EVs. how is an uncharged EV gonna load balance the grid? There just isn't enough power to even charge up the EV to start off with. Heck, even Oregon don't have power issue, and they are next to California. 

    Same thing is happening in Europe also, there just isn't enough power to start off with, no amount of 'load balancing' will work. 

     

     

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    How many kW, on average, do you use to charge your EVs each month?  
    The biggest shortfall is batteries right now. There are not enough batteries to create enough EVs for us to worry about the grid. If 10% of homeowners who already have the available 50 amp 220 outlets wanted an EV we would be 5 years out in battery supply.  I prefer to view the transition like a series of growing pains in many different areas which all need to coordinate. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    JR-550:

    Interesting discussion.

    First on Carlos with the “range” issue. Having an Taycan for 2 years I can assure you the range is not a problem. I drive app 15.000 km per year and about 5-10 % of time I charge outside my home. Most of the time I only need to charge a relative short time since I seldom come home with an empty battery. Infra structure wise I never had a problem on my trips in Europe. France for example has an excellent fast charging infrastructure. This weekend I was in Amsterdam and in the parking garage there were 60 charging points. In the city of Amsterdam there are over 5000 charging points.

    During my last Taycan Turbo S drive, I ended up with a range of 160 km. Smiley

    Charging is a pain in the ass, unless you can use a 800 V charging station.

    Typical driving scenario for me, weekends: Driving 150 km to a destination and then...what? Leave the car charging for hours because there is no 800 V charging station? Smiley Ridiculous. My Performante(!) has a range of 350 km if I drive it the same way I drive the Taycan. My Trackhawk has a range of around 300 km, so basically double the range and both, the Performante and the Trackhawk can be fueled up in 5 minutes each.

    Sorry but EVs are not for me...yet.  


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    I totally agree I would never own one if I could not charge at home cheaply and overnight. In that use case, where I have     300 miles or so each day to play with, it is a no brainer.  Having to wait to supercharge unless on a long road trip and I’m stopping for 20 minutes every three hours, would not win me over. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:

    How many kW, on average, do you use to charge your EVs each month?  
    The biggest shortfall is batteries right now. There are not enough batteries to create enough EVs for us to worry about the grid. If 10% of homeowners who already have the available 50 amp 220 outlets wanted an EV we would be 5 years out in battery supply.  I prefer to view the transition like a series of growing pains in many different areas which all need to coordinate. 

     

    Haha, and you are still clinging onto the battery argument.

    Right now, there isn't enough power in California to charge everything. Right now in Europe, they are forecasting short fall of energy for the immediate winter, charging existing EVs is not a high priority. Heck, Europe don't even have a solid plan for NEXT winter yet.

    There are EVs and hybrids sitting on lots waiting to be bought, battery isn't a bottleneck. In the future perhaps. Why are there unsold cars? Some people that wants a EV can't buy a EV. They don't have convenient charging. You, me, and some others here are the privileged and lucky ones, we can have chargers installed at home. Most people can't. They maybe lived in older apartment buildings where there isn't a communal charger or not have up to date wiring in order to wire in one. Or they live inside the city with only on street parking like in London or NYC. Or they rent and the landlord simply don't agree with installing one. Or in the case in Europe, someone might be living in an older village and there just isn't the infrastructure available. There are all sorts of reasons. 

    You don't live in a big city, this might sound foreign to you. But it's part of the growing pain for EV adoption for people living in metro areas. They just don't have their own garage to do whatever they want, and the city council just isn't helpful with the infrastructure either. 

    My city is very modern, and very green leaning, and have loads of EVs, highest concentration of Teslas and likely Taycans too. Yet it's only in recent years, not even a decade, that they city bylaw specifically mentioned all new build apartment complex has to provide EV chargers, or wiring to support individual chargers for the parkade. Anything built before that don't. That's the barrier to entry for EVs. At least our city isn't too spread out and there are a good number of public charging facilities, level 2 and low power level 3 though. To find high power level 3 one has to head out onto the highway. 

     

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    So how many kW do you charge each week?  Lol.  I doubt you will answer. 
    Again - even if we forget about apartments and just focus on homes with existing charging capabilities and zero additional infrastructure needs there are not enough batteries in the pipeline for the next five years to supply 10% of them. 
    I don’t doubt that some of these converted ICE cars are not selling as EVs.  
    California is a perfect example of government shooting itself in the foot repeatedly. Sometimes they have way too much power then too little. It is just a load balance problem as it is in most places. They sell or give away their excess power when they can’t use it and then buy it back at crazy costs from peaker plants when they run low. Tesla is already adding some of their batteries to the systems and rolling out VPP using homes with power wall parts in certain communities.

    They could also have pretty of water with a desalination plant or two.  Wonder who is in charge there…

    I would prefer apartments add charging because it makes marketing sense for them not because government forces them to. Oh well. Votes matter. 


     
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