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    May 12, 2005 1:37:22 AM

    SrfCity
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    SrfCity
    Loc: Orange County, CA
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    If you had to do it again???

    Would you buy a first year model intro again?

    Of course if you've had some serious problems the answer is no. But, for any of you that have had only minor things, do you think it's worth it? The fact that you get the full model run is a plus, on the other hand you suffer through some teething problems. For me the teething problems are rattles that don't seem to want to go away. Not a big deal but it is irritating. It seems like a first year car is a bit of a crap shoot IMO. I'm not sure that I would do it again. What's everyone else think?

    May 12, 2005 1:50:18 AM

    Damian
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    Damian
    Loc: Pa, USA
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    Reply to: SrfCity

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    Surf, sorry my 997 incoming next month so I cannot respond directly to your question, but I am nervous re early in 997 model cycle too.

    curious..what is your build date.. is your car a launch version from September?

    I have not heard widespread reports (or any, frankly, until your post here) of creaks and rattles on 997. Also, did yours undergo problems with System Fault message after car wash/ boot lid latch business and if so was the ECU switched out to correct?

    May 12, 2005 2:05:39 AM

    MrBonus
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    Reply to: Damian

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    Without hesitation, I would.

    May 12, 2005 3:06:05 AM

    SrfCity
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    Reply to: MrBonus

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    It says a 7/04 manufacture date. It did have the system fault and was reset and it never happened again. They did not replace anything.

    OK, well maybe I wouldn't necessarily get a launch car again The car has been great otherwise. Just the rattles as mentioned. Hopefully one day I'll get it worked out. In the meantime I turn the stereo up more

    May 12, 2005 3:22:05 AM

    MKW
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    Reply to: SrfCity

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    Rattles will never go away on a 911- they're "built -in" : Although Porsche keeps adding reinforcements ( dead weight ) each generation to meet tightened crash standards and to further stiffen the chassis/body structure , the car is still a 40 year old layout with more flex than a car that was , say, computer aided in creation just 5-10 years ago . So in order to meet the 911 customer's expectation of superior handling and control, the suspension components must be stiffer to make up for chassis/body flex in order to keep the tires working optimally- result : rattles from harmonics . You could tune out rattles forever if you didn't mind the car handling like a Lincoln Town Car .
    Conversely, a sports car with a stiffer chassis/body can be dialed in with more compliant springs or shocks with fewer potential rattles as a result.

    May 12, 2005 3:52:33 AM

    SrfCity
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    Reply to: MKW

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    Interesting take on it. Makes sense.

    May 12, 2005 4:23:21 AM

    Jeff (in SF)
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    Jeff (in SF)
    Loc: SF, CA, USA , United States
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    Reply to: MKW

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    Quote:
    MKW said:
    Rattles will never go away on a 911- they're "built -in" : Although Porsche keeps adding reinforcements ( dead weight ) each generation to meet tightened crash standards and to further stiffen the chassis/body structure , the car is still a 40 year old layout with more flex than a car that was , say, computer aided in creation just 5-10 years ago . So in order to meet the 911 customer's expectation of superior handling and control, the suspension components must be stiffer to make up for chassis/body flex in order to keep the tires working optimally- result : rattles from harmonics . You could tune out rattles forever if you didn't mind the car handling like a Lincoln Town Car .
    Conversely, a sports car with a stiffer chassis/body can be dialed in with more compliant springs or shocks with fewer potential rattles as a result.



    Actually, although the shape of the 911 and the engine placement are 40 years old, technology and computers, and stuff like boron reinforced steel have significantly improved the stiffness of the chassis and in fact, a 911 coupe is one of the stiffest (bending and torsional rigidity) cars currently available. The fact that they designed it at the same time to be both a coupe and convertible means that the coupe is really solid - although with all the rattling you experience you might not agree.

    Body stiffness of cars is measured in Hz and the higher the number the better. The current stiffness champ is the Mini Cooper but this is due mostly to the size of the car (smaller chassis are easier to make stiffer than larger chassis) and I think it measures something like 42Hz. I think the 911 is 37Hz or so. Anyone know for sure?

    Incidentallly, I have a '99 996 Cab and also suffered the first year rattles for the first 3 years or so of ownership. I would only have the dealer attempt to fix them when I would have the car serviced but as I neared the 50K warranty end, I got really nit picky with the dealer since it wouldn't be free anymore, and they must've stuffed a lot of foam in the dash and wrapped every wire loom because almost 10K later, the car is virtually rattle free now at 57K...and mine is a cab with a ROW 030 suspension set up. Keep complaining to the dealer and watch the TSB's which pool other dealers' knowledge on solving rattles.

    May 12, 2005 4:26:46 AM

    WBH
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    WBH
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    Reply to: MKW

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    Quote:
    MKW said:
    Rattles will never go away on a 911- they're "built -in" : Although Porsche keeps adding reinforcements ( dead weight ) each generation to meet tightened crash standards and to further stiffen the chassis/body structure , the car is still a 40 year old layout with more flex than a car that was , say, computer aided in creation just 5-10 years ago . So in order to meet the 911 customer's expectation of superior handling and control, the suspension components must be stiffer to make up for chassis/body flex in order to keep the tires working optimally- result : rattles from harmonics . You could tune out rattles forever if you didn't mind the car handling like a Lincoln Town Car .
    Conversely, a sports car with a stiffer chassis/body can be dialed in with more compliant springs or shocks with fewer potential rattles as a result.



    Interesting view. Have never had P's before until a 997S and a 996TTS in past few mths.....both are admirably bulletproof in terms of safety systems engineering and reliability (over roughly 9K mis), but the P's have a few creaks/squeaks that I haven't expcd in several new 360/430 I've had (which BTW are/were as reliable as these P's)...these F's are some of the most tightly put-together cars I've ever been in......the whole sportscar vs luxury car explanation of squeaks/rattles doesn't add up for me (in my admittedly limited dataset)....if/once F can actually develop competent safety structures/systems, P will prob become increasingly irrelevant for those who are less price sensitive....

    May 12, 2005 8:00:54 AM

    Ed J
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    Ed J
    Loc: London
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    Reply to: WBH

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    I would do it again. 3,800 miles and 4 months later I have had no problems apart from on day one when I couldn't select first gear. Even the squeaky clutch pedal has gone of its own accord.

    The car feels solid as a rock.

    May 12, 2005 8:35:58 AM

    FutchM
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    Futch
    Loc: EU , United Kingdom
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    Reply to: SrfCity

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    Quote:
    SrfCity said:
    Would you buy a first year model intro again?

    Of course if you've had some serious problems the answer is no. But, for any of you that have had only minor things, do you think it's worth it? The fact that you get the full model run is a plus, on the other hand you suffer through some teething problems. For me the teething problems are rattles that don't seem to want to go away. Not a big deal but it is irritating. It seems like a first year car is a bit of a crap shoot IMO. I'm not sure that I would do it again. What's everyone else think?



    Interesting question,
    For me, I make it a principle not to go for a MY #01 when a new car comes out.
    Although, and it's probably unfair, less applicalble to German cars than Italian and British ones.
    But that's without talking about Merc.'s problem with their new models lately especially the E class, mostly due to the electronics. I think BMW suffered from it too.
    There has been numerous recalls for the SL55AMG in its 1st year of production, annoying.
    Then, again, we have two modern Mercs and they are bulletproof, but not first year models!
    Now about Porsche, not much to worry about I guess, first 996s were a bit dodgy and now with the 997, I don't think it's much of an issue, bar the increasing amount of electronics embarked on those cars these days.
    But even on that aspect, the 997 seems to be doing really well.
    But still, I know it's not based on reasonable arguments but I still won't buy an MY #1 car.
    Just my 2 cents.

    May 12, 2005 11:25:58 AM

    NM
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    NM
    Loc: London, UK , United Kingdom
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    Reply to: FutchM

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    The main recall for the first year SL55's was to do with the power output, it was increased to 500bhp. This is because after they made six months worth, AMG turned their attention to the E55 AMG, dropped in the same engine and found it to be faster as it was both lighter and more aerodynamic than the SL55 (this stands for Sport Light - a contradiction in terms?). Mercedes bosses said this wouldn't do for their then "halo" model, so the initial run were all recalled to have a more powerful version of the '55' engine put in.

    Funny story - thought i would tell it again...

    May 12, 2005 11:46:22 AM

    Dilinger
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    Dilinger
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    Reply to: NM

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    so they upgraded all SL55 for free?

    Thats really an interesting sotyr thanx for posting, though this WOULD NEVER HAPPEN WITH PORSCHE

    May 12, 2005 12:25:03 PM

    med
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    med
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    Reply to: Dilinger

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    My car is Feb 2005 build (March delivery) and I would do it again but with PSE next time. My fans seem to come on after restarting after short journeys but other members have told me this is normal. Other than that no complains what so ever. This is my first P and won't be my last, certainly when taking into account the last three months of ownership. Also no creaks or any noises to report

    May 12, 2005 4:03:30 PM

    GG
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    GG
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    Reply to: SrfCity

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    My car is a september build -- and NO i would not buy a first year model again. My issues have been 'minor' such as: issue with front suspension, clutch replacement. But cars built before October don't have the same PCM faceplate so i can't have the GSM phone installed...bummer. PCNA says they don't know if they will offer a retrofit...I should have waited!

    May 12, 2005 5:02:44 PM

    nicholas j
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    nicholas j
    Loc: Upstate New York , United States
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    Reply to: GG

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    Without a doubt. Just turned 2,000 miles in three weeks. System fault reset and never happened again. No squeaks, rattles, leaks etc. I live 12 miles from my office. I've been averaging 25 to 30 on the way home. So much car....So little time!!!

    May 12, 2005 5:20:02 PM

    SoCal Alan
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    SoCal Alan
    Loc: Orange County , United States
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    Reply to: nicholas j

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    No problems at all with my car, so yeah, I would do it again.

    May 12, 2005 6:44:19 PM

    911Carrera05
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    911Carrera05
    Loc: Los Angeles, CA
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    Reply to: SoCal Alan

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    First model year proved to be a nightmare with my '03 SL500, but a non-issue with my 997. It's been three months and 2,200 miles and zero problems/defects.

    May 12, 2005 7:00:27 PM

    JohnA
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    JohnA
    Loc: Durham, UK , United Kingdom
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    Reply to: 911Carrera05

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    Yes, no dooubts, one small oil leak easily worth it for how it feels to drive and how it makes me feel. Just had a test drive in a BMW 645 to check whether I wanted a C4S, it was like driving with a dead mackerel in your hand. Comfortable quiet and boring boring boring.

    May 12, 2005 7:11:03 PM

    911Fanatic
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    911Fanatic
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    Reply to: FutchM

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    I have a launch vehicle and have encountered no rattles or problems after 5K miles. I typically don't buy first year models either, but this one has been fine.

    May 12, 2005 8:26:50 PM

    TheOldMan
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    TheOldMan
    Loc: Montreal, Canada
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    Reply to: 911Fanatic

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    I would buy my 997S again in a heart beat. The car has been perfect. Zero issues, zero rattles but infinite smiles. Without a doubt, the most enjoyable car I have ever driven.

    My brain says "avoid first year cars", but heart said go for it. I am very glad I did.

    I have a young son (2.5) and he gets to drive around in some pretty nice cars. But even my son only wants to drive around in the 'Red' car. It did not take him long to figure that the 'Red' car was his favorite. There is something about this car that touches the inner soul of a driver and passenger alike; young or old, once you have driven in the 997S, there is no other car like it. There is no reason to wait, Porsche got this car right from the beginning. And if there are problems, the dealers will put it right.

    May 12, 2005 8:40:28 PM

    69bossnine
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    69bossnine
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    Reply to: TheOldMan

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    My only regret was not waiting for the optional X51 power upgrade on the "S". Other than that, I'm pleased as punch and would do it again. Of course, that's always my biggest bum-out with any new car. You wait a year or two, and they up the power. I just can't justify taking the depreciation on the chin every year or two. I could afford it, but the reason I CAN afford things is because I don't throw money away frivolously (At least I try.. )

    May 12, 2005 9:30:38 PM

    SrfCity
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    Reply to: TheOldMan

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    Scheduled an appointment for them to look at it again. This time I plan to ride with the tech to better communicate problem areas. If it wasn't for this issue, I wouldn't be asking the question here, that's for sure. The service guy at Circle is very supportive of having it resolved and my satisfaction. Keeping fingers crossed.

    May 12, 2005 10:38:57 PM

    SoCal Alan
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    Reply to: TheOldMan

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    Quote:
    TheOldMan said:
    I have a young son (2.5) and he gets to drive around in some pretty nice cars. But even my son only wants to drive around in the 'Red' car. It did not take him long to figure that the 'Red' car was his favorite. There is something about this car that touches the inner soul of a driver and passenger alike; young or old, once you have driven in the 997S, there is no other car like it. There is no reason to wait, Porsche got this car right from the beginning. And if there are problems, the dealers will put it right.



    My four year old also loves the "poursha". He gets to ride in it every morning on the way to school.

    May 13, 2005 5:48:10 PM

    tpfannes
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    Reply to: SoCal Alan

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    1900 miles with absolutely no problems. As mentioned before, I am now in the habit of listening to the weather forecast every day to see if I can drive my (fun) car. YES, I would do it again.

    tim
    black/black 997s
    Only 100 miles to the end of the self imposed 4000rpm redline.

    May 13, 2005 6:00:37 PM

    STRADALE
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    Reply to: tpfannes

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    Quote:
    tpfannes said:
    1900 miles with absolutely no problems. As mentioned before, I am now in the habit of listening to the weather forecast every day to see if I can drive my (fun) car. YES, I would do it again.

    tim
    black/black 997s
    Only 100 miles to the end of the self imposed 4000rpm redline.



    How many miles/at what rpm does Porsche recommend again?
    2000mi/under 4000rpm ?

    May 13, 2005 6:09:27 PM

    vtrader
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    Reply to: STRADALE

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    5000 miles of pure fun and one ticket. I would definitely do it again. My only problem was that I waited 25 years to buy another Porsche.

    May 13, 2005 7:01:10 PM

    Leong
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    Reply to: vtrader

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    5000km and no problems so far, enjoy every minute, even in traffic. Would definitely do it again!

    May 14, 2005 4:23:12 AM

    Holminator
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    Reply to: SrfCity

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    I'd do it again.

    May 14, 2005 9:25:11 AM

    Dilinger
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    Reply to: Holminator

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    of course you would Holmi!!What a nice car you got there

    May 14, 2005 9:39:06 AM

    cartouche
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    Reply to: Dilinger

    Re: If you had to do it again???

    And you, Dillinger, you don't answer the question : If YOU had to do it again ?
     
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