SuzyF:
moo:
SuzyF:
moo:

have you driven an F12 and an F458? believe me, people who like GT3's don't like the F12 and vice versa, unless they are seduced by the F12's refinement. the F12 is a heavy car with a heavy front engine, more a GT than anything else. i can imagine that it gets compared to the turbo S but not to the GT3. pears and apples.

porsches do cover many bases and i like them for their basic values (this is why i appreciate the GT3 and find the turbo S rather useless...neither basic nor refined, just gross). but believe me (i had a few porsches in my life), they just cannot compete with ferraris in terms of the special feel...nowhere near. but then there is the price difference which puts things in order, except for the turbo S, which looks like an ugly power beetle but costs like a ferrari,

cheers, peter

You're missing the point IMO. They were not trying to find the rivals of the GT3 in this article. Would be a bit strange with a Cayman, a Fiesta, a Taxi A45 AMG and so on... (Sorry... Never was and will be a fan of Merc Smiley Smiley)

The were just looking to find the best performance car of the year. (In their opinion)  A Fiesta is a perfomance car in its own car catagory. The F12 is a new car and also a performance car. The GT3 also... The 458 is an older car, so it would be very strange to see that as a recently introduced car.

aha, so this is like comparing the best apples to the best pears. ......

They were indeed comparing the best apples to the best pears. A comparison like this is useless, but it is fun to read. In fact I think every test or comparison is useless. I will never base my purchase on a car magazine's test and I also do not care if the car I like is 0,1 sec faster to 60 or whatever. I buy a car because I like it and it makes me feel good. Car magazine tests don't have any value to me, unless it is a long term review where they do 50000 miles or so with a car. That has value....

can you please illuminate me with what modern technology the F458 does not have? the only thing that comes to my mind is four wheel steering but only two porsches so far have it. it seems nice but i doubt that it will be a must have on performance cars in the future. other than that?

What I meant was that the 458 is developed a couple of years ago and doesn't have the benefit of the latest Ferrari bits and pieces, like the F12 does. The car is not as up to date as an F12. Doesn't mean it isn't a great car. Don't get me wrong, but if the 458 was the latest in technologies that Ferrari could offer, they were doing things wrong. It's 5 year old technology. the car was introduced in 2009 or 2010, so developed 2 or more years earlier.

If hey were comparing rivals of the GT3, then they would have probably gotten a 458. And even then I think the GT3 would have had the preference of most of them, albeit close I guess. The 458 is not as refined, which is not a shame, because the car is already a few years on the market and doesn't have the benefit of the most modern technologies. On the other hand, that is what some people attracts to the car.

 

have you driven a 458? not as refined as the GT3?????? sorry, but this is utter nonsense. the GT3 is much more raw, which defines exactly its appeal...closer to a race car. but in refinement it can't compete.

Yes I have driven a 458... Refinement was maybe not the right word to use, I'm sorry for that. What I meant was the refinement inside the cabin. The car feels not a solid as a 991 (I don't say it isn't), or even more the new Audi R8, which is in my opinion even better built than a 991.
Build quality is for me a very important factor. The interior is the place I spent all my time driving the car. so it has to be almost perfect.    ...Of course, this is a matter of personal preference.

What the Ferrari does have as an advantage is the overall feeling the cabin gives. It's feels and looks more special than both German cars. This doesn't always mean it is better, but it can make one feel better (also very important IMO)

You're right about the special feel a Ferrari can give one, but that isn't different for a 911. It just attracts different people. A 911 feels more special to me than a 458. Other people think the other way around. That's a good thing, otherwise everyone was driving a Porsche Smiley

 

special is not a word that comes to my mind when i hear porsche. but to each his (her) own.

This is always a matter of taste. For me the 458 is the least attractive Ferrari. to me it looks already kind of outdated, which is strange for Ferrari, because a lot of their designs are timeless and classy. But like you said, each to their own on this point. I do love Ferrari (in fact all Italian brands, as you know) but the 458 is just not my cup of tea I think, although I adore the exhaust note. I would still choose it over a McLaren in a heartbeat if I had to make that choice.

One thing I can't say anything about is the fact that when a 458 drives by, I will always look at it, regardless if I like it or not. It's a Ferrari and every Ferrari has something special.

But please... Don't feel offended or whatever.
I was just giving my own opinion on the subject. Everybody should drive what they like. I will always buy what I like, not what other people like. Different people, different preferences. If we all would like the same cars, the world would be a boring place to live in. Smiley

i am surely not offended but sorry suzy, this warrants a factual correction: the F458 has every bit the same technology as the F12 (of course not the 12 cyl. engine). the F458 S even tops it tech wise. also, ferrari has learned a lot in terms of build quality. my 2013 model easily beats my friend's 991 C4S in terms of build quality. i am not so much taken by ferrari interior design but at least it doesn't have those empty buttons on the console like the 991 which look grossly off the shelve. the F458 is an extremely planted car which remains stable under every speed (something that cannot be said about carreras, 991 better though than 997).  it turns in like nothing i have ever tried (almost everything except veyrons, paganis....). when the F458 came out 3 years ago it was five years ahead of the competition, literally.

7 years free service make it even a good economic proposition.

i chose the F458 because the GT3 seemed too hardcore. now i am sometime longing for a more visceral driving experience and feel the F458 is maybe over the top in its DD qualities (i'll put winter tyres on next week and drive it into the swiss alps, will be fun). not sure i can survive the first GT3's being delivered without ordering one to complement my DD fezza.

tomorrow i shall test drive a turbo S though....for the fun of it.

cheers, peter