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    GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    I was looking forward to buy a Cayenne GTS for the coming winter season. The price reductions do sound promissing, but at the end its not great anymore as you can see that the car looses another 60% of its value in the next 2 years. So in numbers: I was going to get a GTS, new value 98,600, now for 75.000 €. Rest value calculationsin 2 years is anywhere around 32.000,-. So the loss on these cars is just to high, compared for what you get. Further on I have seen that the successor may even be sooner at the dealer as we all expect. So I was stepping back to burn the money in such an investment.

    I think, nowadays you have to keep the cars longer. You have to drive them for the full production cycle of 6-7 years, here you will make the smallest anual loss. But for this, I want to have a new car in the beginning of the cycle, so I will go and wait. Further on, with the 6-7 years model I rather go and have an additional car (we already have 3) as fun and for collection and to get variancy.

     


    Re: GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    Well said Lars,

    if you don't whant to burn a lot of money,restyling cars don't worth,you must buy the model at the beginning and take it till the new model comes out.

    This is what i do with my  Cayenne S,and i will do with my 997TT


    --
    997 TT, what a car/che'mmmmmaghena!!!

    Re: GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    Lars997:

    I think, nowadays you have to keep the cars longer. You have to drive them for the full production cycle of 6-7 years, here you will make the smallest anual loss. But for this, I want to have a new car in the beginning of the cycle, so I will go and wait. Further on, with the 6-7 years model I rather go and have an additional car (we already have 3) as fun and for collection and to get variancy.

     

    I agree with about keeping cars longer and actually driving and enjoying  them. I've always practiced this and even when I lose the depreciation I say, "well at least I've had the car for 7 years enjoyed it and exhausted all its possibilities".

    However, I always buy  at the facelift stage because I noticed that with german brands at least that I am a friend of, they bring substantial engineering improvements and options at FL and not only cosmetic changes, without any serious increase in prices.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    Thanks guys for your comments. Its confirming that stepping back from my desperation was the right thing. Sometimes it makes sense to stay rational


    Re: GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    You are not alone. We all have to step back and ask does this purchase make sense. More often than not, it does not. Since the start of the recession, I have known all income classes are resetting their priorities especially concerning discretionary spending. The fact you can afford something does not necessarily mean you will buy it. A totally different mindset from what it was before the recession.

    Though I am designated an early recipient of the 458, whether I purchase the car will have a lot to do with price and critical reviews. It looks great but there must be more value.


    --

     


    Re: GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    Lars997:

    Thanks guys for your comments. Its confirming that stepping back from my desperation was the right thing. Sometimes it makes sense to stay rational

     

    yes,is "hard" to acceptSmiley,all us love to have the latest model,or a new car only for join that "new car" sensation...but in the last time i understand that this thing costs too much,too much and only for a restricted time.

    Times ago you dream a car,you have the time to buy it and enjoy it,before become old..

    now you must dream before release,the run to buy it as soon it is on sale,use it day and night and sold it before the restyling will come(sometimes not more than 3 years from the release date)..is a war!!SmileySmiley

    For example i like the 458(strange but true),well i must find the money(and is not easySmiley),then go to order one(and i know my delivery date will be earlier in 2011),...mmmh..i think is just too late..Smiley

    ok,i will put all on the 991 Turbo(i will start do dream it next month)Smiley

    Smiley


    --
    997 TT, what a car/che'mmmmmaghena!!!

    Re: GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    I can relate to this thread..popped up to take a look at a GTR ( yes I know , that nissan ) and ask about a part ex value on my 3,0 ltr X5..Its coming up to 2yr old, cost £55,000 from new ( it was over optioned by the guy that cancelled the order), 5 mins later the sales guy come back to me and stated he was looking at around somewhere in between £22000 and £24000 for it, I thought cripes its lost in the region of £30000, that's £1250 a month..Needless to say I did no deal, special considering how fragile the GTR going to be anyway...

    The 2yr change up which used to be in the high percentage has always been a costly thing and of course especially now..


    --

    throt

    "I didn't do it"


    Re: GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    nberry:

    Though I am designated an early recipient of the 458, whether I purchase the car will have a lot to do with price and critical reviews. It looks great but there must be more value.

    There will be more value if you purchase the car and keep it for a long period, say 8-10 years. The 458 will be as attractive then as when new and with the mileage Ferraris do the car will be hardly ran in. Moreover, If you keep a special car for a long time you bond with it and your ownership pleasure will be enhanced. You also show to others that you are a person of taste and not simply someone who adopts the latest fads and trends.

    I cannot understand this consumer society culture that people must constantly go after the new thing and never be satisfied. This attitude deducts from pleasure IMO and costs heavily in terms of cash. I hope this current recession  lasts a bit so that many of those practices and behaviours are revised and rectified.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts


    Re: GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    throt:

    I can relate to this thread..popped up to take a look at a GTR ( yes I know , that nissan ) and ask about a part ex value on my 3,0 ltr X5..Its coming up to 2yr old, cost £55,000 from new ( it was over optioned by the guy that cancelled the order), 5 mins later the sales guy come back to me and stated he was looking at around somewhere in between £22000 and £24000 for it, I thought cripes its lost in the region of £30000, that's £1250 a month..Needless to say I did no deal, special considering how fragile the GTR going to be anyway...

    You do realize, Throt, that a change to your by-line is now called for?

    "I didn't do it it again."  Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    Super Darius:

    Times ago you dream a car,you have the time to buy it and enjoy it,before become old..

    now you must dream before release,the run to buy it as soon it is on sale,use it day and night and sold it before the restyling will come(sometimes not more than 3 years from the release date)..is a war!!SmileySmiley


    Very true Smiley
     


    --

    Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    fritz:
    throt:

    I can relate to this thread..popped up to take a look at a GTR ( yes I know , that nissan ) and ask about a part ex value on my 3,0 ltr X5..Its coming up to 2yr old, cost £55,000 from new ( it was over optioned by the guy that cancelled the order), 5 mins later the sales guy come back to me and stated he was looking at around somewhere in between £22000 and £24000 for it, I thought cripes its lost in the region of £30000, that's £1250 a month..Needless to say I did no deal, special considering how fragile the GTR going to be anyway...

    You do realize, Throt, that a change to your by-line is now called for?

    "I didn't do it it again."  Smiley


    Lmao,, or what about,

    "I am as tight as a crabs arse"

    Take care , bud....Smiley Smiley...


    --
     

    throt

    "I didn't do it", again and again and,,,,,,,, again 


    Re: GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    Hmn, I am not sure if I have just been insulted.

    In my defense, I become bored with possessions (especially personal property) relatively quickly. I make the most of what I have and in doing so the passion wanes. My interest begins to look for the new to reignite my craving.


    --

     


    Re: GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    I heard a rumor that Porsche plans to put the next Cayenne generation on the market by 2010, not as rumored before by 2011.

    Sportscar drivers who are thinking about buying a Cayenne, make sure you ALWAYS get the most powerful one.

    The GTS is fun but after I smoked one in my first generation Cayenne Turbo S, the owner of the GTS got very frustrated.

    I found out at my dealer because the GTS driver remembered my very short license plate and wanted to know from the dealer if my car was tuned because I passed him pretty fast (and I have to admit that it was easier than I thought, I almost believed that this guy wasn't fully accelerating). Speed range started at 180 kph, my Cayenne Turbo S was pulling off as if the GTS was standing still.

    My Cayenne Turbo S is completely stock !

     

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    Thanks Christian!


    --
    997 TT, what a car/che'mmmmmaghena!!!

    Re: GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    My dealer told me the new Cayenne goes into production in March '10 and he expects to see his first cars in either late April or early May.

     


    Re: GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    ISUK:

    My dealer told me the new Cayenne goes into production in March '10 and he expects to see his first cars in either late April or early May.

     


    Correct, my dealer told the same thing.


    Re: GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    Like all of you guys, I hate taking a big depreciation hit on my cars.  But sadly, it has become a fact of life on almost any luxury sports car these days.  And when you add on the cost of insurance, inevitable add-ons, repairs, fuel--cars are just plain a bad investment for anyone who cares about watching their expenditures. 

    BUT, have you calculated the lease or rental costs lately?  I negotiated what I thought was a great long term lease on a new Peugeot while I was in France, and the best I could do was around $12,000 a year.  Translate that into "depreciation" and the new Peugeot was basically worthless after two years.  So if you are worried about your Porsche depreciating, think of what you would be paying to enjoy it without owning it.

    I know, I know, I am grasping at straws to feed my new car addiction, but at least those are my rationalisations for now...


    Re: GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    Wonderbar:

    Like all of you guys, I hate taking a big depreciation hit on my cars.  But sadly, it has become a fact of life on almost any luxury sports car these days.  And when you add on the cost of insurance, inevitable add-ons, repairs, fuel--cars are just plain a bad investment for anyone who cares about watching their expenditures. 

    I know, I know, I am grasping at straws to feed my new car addiction, but at least those are my rationalisations for now...

     

    You own a second gen Cayenne Turbo S...this is a keeper. Smiley

    My first gen Cayenne Turbo S is still fast as hell compared to other SUVs out there on the market, so I will keep it at least another two years until my 997 Turbo lease runs out and I can decide what car I'm going for next.

    Very likely: next generation Cayenne Turbo. I would go for the "S" but I'm not sure it is going to be available from the start. I like the Panamera Turbo too, especially since it is lighter than the Cayenne Turbo/S but it is too expensive and too "here I come" flashy. I also have my problem with the rear part design but thats another story. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    Thanks for the comments, RC.  I pick up my Turbo S at the dealer this weekend, where it was delivered after the transatlantic boat trip from Germany.  I picked the car up new in Leipzig in April, drove it through Germany, Austria, and Switzerland back to France, then had it shipped in July because we are now back in the U.S. for a while.

    Had some freaky hail damage in Burgundy in July, and had the car repaired in Stuttgart.  The factory did a nice job fixing it up like brand new, and now I am looking forward to enjoying the car here.  I will post some more pictures soon.  I love the lava grey metallic color--my bet is it will become a popular color on other Porsches.


    Re: GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    throt:

    I can relate to this thread..popped up to take a look at a GTR ( yes I know , that nissan ) and ask about a part ex value on my 3,0 ltr X5..Its coming up to 2yr old, cost £55,000 from new ( it was over optioned by the guy that cancelled the order), 5 mins later the sales guy come back to me and stated he was looking at around somewhere in between £22000 and £24000 for it, I thought cripes its lost in the region of £30000, that's £1250 a month..Needless to say I did no deal, special considering how fragile the GTR going to be anyway...

    The 2yr change up which used to be in the high percentage has always been a costly thing and of course especially now..

     

    You think YOUR X5 lost money?

    How about this one: my Cayenne Turbo S (first gen) had a new price tag of 138000 EUR. Add the Porsche entertainment system (retrofit) to it and a couple of other minor mods and you're looking at a price tag beyond 144000 EUR.

    Last time I asked my local Porsche dealer how much my car would be worth, he told me that I'd get around 50000 EUR...IF I'm lucky and he has a customer.  

    He offered me 60000 EUR if I would have gone for a brandnew Porsche Cayenne Turbo S but here comes the bad part: CASH deal. Meaning: no lease or whatever. Smiley

    Then I tried my local BMW dealer, he offered me 35000 EUR for my car. Smiley

    Lately, I had an offer for 50000 EUR cash from one of my customers but I didn't go through with the deal. What the heck I am going to buy for 50000 EUR? A well equipped BMW X3?!

    Bottom line is: my Cayenne Turbo S has now around 45000 km and it is almost four years old. It runs like hell, just two weeks ago I was going 286 kph on the speedo, FULLY loaded and with the family in the car, it is the perfect travel utility. Why should I sell it?

    Of course I would love to drive something new but throwing money out of the window isn't really something I want to do, especially since we're not talking about a couple of bucks only.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    RC,

    I am (sure you are and many others) that cars are not an investment, see it this way, how many hrs do we spent in our cars? Several hundreds of hrs per year and I would be surprised to string 3 weeks. If I remember right, when I reset my travel log (1500 entries) I had something like 175 hrs and my CTT08 was just 3/4 of a year old. OK, coming to my point, if you go in to how much you pay per hours it sounds much but the joy, driving experiences and shear comfort to get the family around will out do 'my' pain.

    I paid 53k OMR (135k $US) for my CTT08 (June), I think I will be lucky if I can 40k OMR (100k $35) as a trade in for a 911 4S (of GT3), I am taking it in my stride. The power we share is fantastic and everytime I put my foot down I have a big smile on my face. Another angle is that money will be spent anyway, if I don't do it on a nice car, wifie will get it in her mind to buy an apartment we probably use for only 5 days a year.......

    Do I make you feel better???

    Cheers,

    Mark


    --
    2008 Cayenne Turbo - 2007 BMW X5 4.8is (sold) - 2007 Landcruiser Prado - 1997 Wrangler TJ - 1957 LR

    Re: GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    Bought my 993 Targa at an official Porsche dealer including 3 month warranty (thanks for that)  in October 2006 sold my car 2 weeks ago at a small profit

    Not to make you feel bad, but depreciation is something we have to live with. Same for my daily driver (2006 BMW 325i Touring).. Waiting for the new Cayenne before I make a decision what my next daily drive will be. Will need a stronger car because I just bought a boat and will plan to trailer it in the future.  If i buy a Cayenne it will be a fairly standard "S" version with only the "must have" options and then keep it for 4-5 years. The depreciation I can easily calculate by looking at 4-5 year old Cayenne now.

     


    --
    993 Targa Black/Black

    Re: GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    Christian, what were you thinking driving a fully loaded SUV with your entire family doing 286kph? That is crazy.

    However, I do agree no need to trade up. Your stuck with your C TT. Enjoy it and forget about the financially bath you are taking. In this economy, we all are bending over and grabbing our ankles when we try to sell our cars.


    --

     


    Re: GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    Hi Nberry,

    You will be surprised how confortable Cayennes are at high speed. My wife doesn't like driving fast at all (and I mean being in the passenger seat) but during our trip to Dubai a couple of weeks ago I had my CTT almost constantly on 160-170 khp and heading for the Dubai border I had 250khp on the clock with onbody screamingSmiley 

    Funny though as I was flashed a couple of times, I thought the cameras start flashing at 135kph so I was flashed doing 135kph (on that particular stretch) so I turned my cruisecontrol down and was flashed again at  132kph Smiley, it seems to be flashing above 130kph. Could be an expensive way to find out though, not sure what I am going to be charged as it was on the Dubai side Smiley

    Love my CTT and IMO money well spent !!!!

    Cheers,

    Mark


    --
    2008 Cayenne Turbo - 2007 BMW X5 4.8is (sold) - 2007 Landcruiser Prado - 1997 Wrangler TJ - 1957 LR

    Re: GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    I just picked up my Cayenne TTS, after its shipment from Europe.  After owning Porsches of many types over the years (still have three), I want to go on record to say this is one wonderful automobile.  Fast, solid, loaded with usable and well crafted options, luxurious, and damned distinctive in a sea of uninspired and wannabee SUVs.  Sure the new FL Cayenne will be an improvement (as it should be), and sure I am still in the early happiness bloom stage of ownership, but this is one fantastic automobile.  I am thrilled with it, and will recommend a Cayenne to anyone.  And I--crazy as I am--think this is a great time to buy either a new one (at a good negotiated discount) or a slightly used one at a fabulous (already depreciated) price.  (There is a beautiful new TTS at my dealershjp, listed at $131K, and my guess is a buyer can knock off 10-15K and walk away with a knockout piece of enjoyable engineering). 

    Where there is a will--and these great cars, there is a way...


    Re: GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    Wonderbar,

    Congratulations ! fantastic car, not sure if you posted already picturesSmiley

    We are off on Holiday to China tomorrow, cruise from Beijing to Bangkok, we are very much looking forward to it, a shame though that I have to miss my CTT till the 24th of October. Really is will miss her !!!

    Cheers,

    Mark


    --
    2008 Cayenne Turbo - 2007 BMW X5 4.8is (sold) - 2007 Landcruiser Prado - 1997 Wrangler TJ - 1957 LR

    Re: GTS - strong loss, stepping back from buying

    993Targa:

    Bought my 993 Targa at an official Porsche dealer including 3 month warranty (thanks for that)  in October 2006 sold my car 2 weeks ago at a small profit

     

     


    I remember the nice pics you showed us when you baught it. Had nice rims on it ! It was a beautifull car.

    Amazing that you made a profit Smiley

    It seems to me that the price of second hand Carreras are going up again. They are also much less on the market then 4 month ago.


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


     
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