Crown

Board: Other Sports Cars Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    A point well made in a Motor Trend article

    which we often lose sight of in our quest for hp and speed. In the article they were comparing a Soltice with a Miata. They then threw in the Z06 and Viper. Here is a scan of what they wrote. We often forget the fun factor.

    Re: A point well made in a Motor Trend article

    Sorry for the poor quality of the scan. Basically they wrote that they had more fun driving the Miata and Soltice because it allow the drivers to experiment on the track without fear of killing themselves. The Z06 and Viper were too powerful and the slightest mistake could lead to lost of contrl and serious injury.

    Re: A point well made in a Motor Trend article

    The key seems to be buying something that is approachable to your skill level, when on the track. Cars like the Miata tend to stay on your side and are more forgiving of mistakes. Handling is more than just skipad numbers.

    I suppose this is why RC suggests those with less skill, deciding between a 911 Turbo and GT3, to go for the former.

    - J

    Re: A point well made in a Motor Trend article

    Hey Nick, after reading your completely rational and straightforward comments in the 997 TT thread today, and now this, I find I am in agreement with you on both counts.

    Yes, the 997 TT and Z06 are awesome performance machines, but that is not necessarily the point for everyone.

    A question I ask myself is: Which is more important: Having the current ultimate performance benchmark car that is maybe 1 sec. faster around the 'Ring then the next best supercar, or, a car that has a great balance of decent performance, great precision in all driver inputs etc.? Well, the answer is different depending on who you are... I know what my answer is.

    Something like a Cayman (with PASM) is more than enough for me performance-wise.

    Re: A point well made in a Motor Trend article

    Much more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slowly. It's no accident that Spec Miata racing is so popular. Driving a responsive (if underpowered) car at the limit with great competition among other similar cars is a blast.

    I think driving an underpowered car can be less forgiving than a fast one - you need to carry speed through the corners and any small mistake in braking or cornerning is amplified down the next straight (no power to help you make up that time).

    Go karts (especially shifter karts) are a great track tool as well...

    Re: A point well made in a Motor Trend article

    Very good point indeed, I think its something everyone can agree on.

    Just make sure you check the box that says "LSD". I found out this week that it really really sucks not having one Its like running with one leg while dragging the other.....no fun at all in the twisties. Its almost as intrusive as traction control.

    Re: A point well made in a Motor Trend article

    Hey Ryan
    Does your car have af front anti-roll bar? You can try using a stiffer one up front or drilling the ends of the stock unit. This might keep the rear a bit more planted, but the tradeoff could be some understeer. Might want to check with an authority on your model for ways to reduce it short of buying an LSD.

    - J

    Re: A point well made in a Motor Trend article

    Quote:
    Ryan in SD said:
    Very good point indeed, I think its something everyone can agree on.

    Just make sure you check the box that says "LSD". I found out this week that it really really sucks not having one Its like running with one leg while dragging the other.....no fun at all in the twisties. Its almost as intrusive as traction control.


    Yeah, the 951 needs an LSD big time - should've been standard (like it was on the 951S)...

    If you can find a good used 6-spd LSD box from the 968, that's the ticket - less lag from the closer ratios as well as the LSD. Second best option is finding a used 951S box (those all had LSD and oil cooler).

    There are aftermarket LSD's you can add (including Quaife), but by the time you do all the parts & labor, it makes more sense to buy a new box and sell yours...

    Re: A point well made in a Motor Trend article

    Quote:
    Justin said:
    Hey Ryan
    Does your car have af front anti-roll bar? You can try using a stiffer one up front or drilling the ends of the stock unit. This might keep the rear a bit more planted, but the tradeoff could be some understeer. Might want to check with an authority on your model for ways to reduce it short of buying an LSD.

    - J



    The problem is that I want to use the throttle to hold a slide and not lose power. It just spins one wheel and "drags" the other. It makes sideways driving impossible in some situations. In other words, its boring not having an lsd. Today I was able to get the back end out but I had to use more momentum than what should be necessary. With my 6er which must of had an lsd....I can just hammer the throttle to keep the back end out. I cant really do that anymore. If you want, the next time I see you, I can give a ride in it to really illustrate my point.

    Re: A point well made in a Motor Trend article

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    Ryan in SD said:
    Very good point indeed, I think its something everyone can agree on.

    Just make sure you check the box that says "LSD". I found out this week that it really really sucks not having one Its like running with one leg while dragging the other.....no fun at all in the twisties. Its almost as intrusive as traction control.


    Yeah, the 951 needs an LSD big time - should've been standard (like it was on the 951S)...

    If you can find a good used 6-spd LSD box from the 968, that's the ticket - less lag from the closer ratios as well as the LSD. Second best option is finding a used 951S box (those all had LSD and oil cooler).

    There are aftermarket LSD's you can add (including Quaife), but by the time you do all the parts & labor, it makes more sense to buy a new box and sell yours...



    Yeah Im actually thinking about going with the quaife. Not having an lsd is almost as bad as not having manual tranny.


    -- oops sorry for hijacking thread

    Re: A point well made in a Motor Trend article

    What a great article - points well made indeed.

    I traded my 996 TT for a Honda S2000 (and a huge check - was really funny) and drove away thinking "wow - this car is a lot of fun!" I wasn't worried about it on the street, in the parking lot or on the track, and I could push its limits in relative safety. Driving in the Rockies, if I wanted to go through a switchback hairpin turn with the tail out, I could, and did not feel like I was risking my life or endangering other motorists.

    Good to remember. Thanks for the great post nberry!

    PS - The only thing that surprises me is that this came from Motortrend. Motortrend used to be the dregs of car magazines with constant "8000 HP Shootouts" and test times that no other magazine could replicate. But they have gotten pretty good lately. I normally expect this kind of sane stuff coming from Road&Track.

    Re: A point well made in a Motor Trend article

    I think this article is more consumer geared.

    I have friends who race cars and what happens to them is they slowly become desensitized to slower cars.

    Its like a drug addiction, they need to keep bumping up.

    I think often times the threshold is crossed when one seriously tracks a car. My friend was driving Formula 3000 cars that have only 135 hp (granted 935 lbs) but after that, he was never the same in terms of demands from a car.

    For some people, speed is a fancy. For others its an addiction.

    Re: A point well made in a Motor Trend article

    Well that's my point - we are consumers as opposed to pro race drivers. Can't recall who said it above, but that old addage of "it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow" is true in my book.

    Yeah the speed is addictive, but as you point out, the thrill wears off. Soon the TT is no longer quite the same rush - then what...

    Cheers,

    Ptm

    Re: A point well made in a Motor Trend article

    Quote:
    PTM said:
    Soon the TT is no longer quite the same rush - then what...

    Cheers,

    Ptm



    The TTS.

    Re: A point well made in a Motor Trend article

    Quote:
    PTM said:
    Well that's my point - we are consumers as opposed to pro race drivers. Can't recall who said it above, but that old addage of "it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow" is true in my book.




    Check out my new toy, pushing it to it's limits within the city speed limits

    Re: A point well made in a Motor Trend article

    Be careful with that thing. It's a monster in the paralell parking department

    Re: A point well made in a Motor Trend article

    Quote:
    PTM said:
    Well that's my point - we are consumers as opposed to pro race drivers. Can't recall who said it above, but that old addage of "it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow" is true in my book.

    Yeah the speed is addictive, but as you point out, the thrill wears off. Soon the TT is no longer quite the same rush - then what...

    Cheers,

    Ptm



    I agree with you Ptm, that's why I bought a Mini Cooper . Just showing the other side of the argument

    Re: A point well made in a Motor Trend article

    Seems like conflicting opinions in the same magazine, in the same issue. Now looking at the other comparo article:

    Quote:

    We've always assumed that road
    inhalers like the Viper and Vette quickly
    lose their luster when they're not out on a
    track generating numbers. And we proved
    it. Both of these bruisers are about eight
    inches wider than the Miata, and those
    eight inches take up every bit of available
    back-road run-off room. So we ended up
    driving the big dogs at far below their
    potential, realizing that full speed in these
    cars would have posed too great a risk for
    innocents in the vicinity. Sure, you could
    push it, but then you'd be a jackass that we
    wouldn't care to know.
    At the track, though, the brutes provided
    a greater level of fun and challenges
    than the little guys. The cornering and
    straight-line speeds are faster, and that in
    itself is a kick. Also, the Miata and the Solstice
    are underpowered enough that in
    most cases, any time you're on the gas, you
    have the throttles pinned to the floor. It's
    the opposite for the 500-hp cars, where
    sloppy throttle work will send you spinning.
    Both are fun, but getting the most out
    of the fast cars simply takes more concentration,
    so when you get it right, you thump
    your chest a little harder.




    Later in the article they mention that on a bumpy track, teh Z06 is a handful and average drivers should leave the aids on. By comparison the Viper was easy to drive and scored better marks in handling.

    - J

    Re: A point well made in a Motor Trend article

    Quote:
    Justin said:
    The key seems to be buying something that is approachable to your skill level, when on the track. Cars like the Miata tend to stay on your side and are more forgiving of mistakes. Handling is more than just skipad numbers.



    I agree completely. Unfortunately, many drivers do not understand this and will attempt to skip a few steps. The situation is getting worse as cars become more powerful and society richer so that younger, less experienced drivers are able to buy faster, more powerful cars.

    I'm generalising, of course. Some drivers just learn quicker than others so some young drivers are excellent drivers of some very high performance cars.

    Stephen

    Re: A point well made in a Motor Trend article

    Quote:
    Motor trend said:
    Both of these bruisers are about eight
    inches wider than the Miata, and those
    eight inches take up every bit of available
    back-road run-off room. So we ended up
    driving the big dogs at far below their
    potential, realizing that full speed in these
    cars would have posed too great a risk for
    innocents in the vicinity. Sure, you could
    push it, but then you'd be a jackass that we
    wouldn't care to know.



    Disagree. I've driven the 996 Turbo on some very tight European roads. It is all about knowing your car. Then the margins become much tighter. These cars are wider but not that much wider. Maybe the fact that they are reporters testing cars that they aren't completely familiar with yet?

    Stephen

     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 5/15/24 8:44 AM
    art.italy
    819619 1808
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 4/7/24 11:48 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    455505 565
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 3/12/24 8:28 AM
    DJM48
    277961 323
    Porsche Sticky The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche 1/30/24 9:18 AM
    RCA
    93732 45
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift 3/15/24 1:23 PM
    CGX car nut
    11385 50
    Porsche 992 GT3 7/23/23 7:01 PM
    Grant
    979403 3868
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 2/1/24 7:01 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    897416 1364
    Porsche GT4RS 4/21/24 11:50 AM
    mcdelaug
    413907 1454
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 2/10/24 4:43 PM
    nberry
    408015 1526
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 12/13/23 2:48 PM
    CGX car nut
    395553 2401
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 5/12/24 6:23 PM
    blueflame
    296337 669
    Porsche Collected my 997 GTS today 10/19/23 7:06 PM
    CGX car nut
     
     
     
     
     
    272434 812
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/30/23 6:59 PM
    mcdelaug
    246108 346
    Others Corvette C8 10/16/23 3:24 PM
    Enmanuel
    224561 488
    Others Gordon Murray - T.50 11/22/23 10:27 AM
    mcdelaug
    175523 387
    Motor Sp. 2023 Formula One 12/19/23 5:38 AM
    WhoopsyM
    126146 685
    BMW M 2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now 12/29/23 9:04 AM
    RCA
    125766 303
    Porsche 2022 992 Safari Model 3/7/24 4:22 PM
    WhoopsyM
    88432 239
    AMG Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758 2/23/24 10:03 PM
    blueflame
    78088 297
    Porsche 992 GT3 RS 3/3/24 7:22 PM
    WhoopsyM
    57559 314
    Motor Sp. Porsche 963 5/18/24 9:44 PM
    Wonderbar
    29805 249
    Ferrari Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6) 1/21/24 4:29 PM
    GT-Boy
    23639 103
    BMW M 2022 BMW M5 CS 4/8/24 1:43 PM
    Ferdie
    22505 140
    AMG G63 sold out 9/15/23 7:38 PM
    Nico997
    18354 120
    AMG [2022] Mercedes-AMG SL 4/23/24 1:24 PM
    RCA
    17778 225
    Porsche Porsche Mission X Hypercar 12/3/23 8:52 AM
    996FourEss
    12877 63
    Porsche 911 S/T 10/10/23 8:53 AM
    RCA
    11526 55
    Motor Sp. Formula 1 2024!! 6/15/24 11:25 AM
    Anderson
    10482 217
    Others Tesla thread N°3 5/1/24 11:09 PM
    CGX car nut
    10462 93
    Porsche Macan EV 1/25/24 9:10 AM
    RCA
    9545 28
    102 items found, displaying 1 to 30.