Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Boxster Residual Values - A Joke! - Page1

Nov 26, 2007 6:02:58 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8804, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004

Boxster Residual Values - A Joke!

I've been tyre kicking, as one does from time to time, yesterday dropped into the BMW dealer in Portsmouth, half interested in the new 123d Coupe. Got to looking at trade in values for the Boxster (which cost new Pounds51k barely a year ago) to be quoted Pounds33k with 8,000 miles up. I thought this was a typical dealer rip-off so when I got home checked with the usualy optimistic Glass's Guide on-line (the trade bible). To my horror found out the dealer was spot on - Pounds33,750 with all the options taken into account and assuming excellent condition. Pounds18k loss in one year!

Monthly drop is currently Pounds650!

If I needed any confirmation that this will be my last expensive car I have received it. So much for the days when Porsche were renowned for their residual values, particularly here in the UK where discounts new are unheard of.

Just as well I have no serious plans or need to sell, so consoled myself by planning a French break touring the Loire chateau followed by a week in our beloved Brittany again, in April after my winter ship-refit-marathon ends

NBerry, you were right after all.

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Nov 26, 2007 7:15:06 PM

ISUK: Rennteam Master; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 4206, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Boxster Residual Values - A Joke!

Dreamcar,

The drop in residuals is affecting ALL high end marques not just Porsche. Scant consolation I know but the media spun credit crunch has made the market go quiet. On top of that you are asking for a trade value on a soft top at absolutely the worst time of year to sell as we go into winter. New car sales are down and I was told there was a senior level Porsche UK dealer network meeting the other week to discuss the high levels of unsold stock both new and used. If you watch OPC used stock listings you'll see that prices have fallen significantly in recent weeks. The Ferrari network is also "realigning" used pricing and even once bullet proof F430s have had around Pounds5k wiped off their value in the last fortnight or so.

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Nov 26, 2007 7:25:14 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8804, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: ISUK

Re: Boxster Residual Values - A Joke!

Quote:
ISUK said:
Dreamcar,

The drop in residuals is affecting ALL high end marques not just Porsche. Scant consolation I know but the media spun credit crunch has made the market go quiet. On top of that you are asking for a trade value on a soft top at absolutely the worst time of year to sell as we go into winter. New car sales are down and I was told there was a senior level Porsche UK dealer network meeting the other week to discuss the high levels of unsold stock both new and used. If you watch OPC used stock listings you'll see that prices have fallen significantly in recent weeks. The Ferrari network is also "realigning" used pricing and even once bullet proof F430s have had around Pounds5k wiped off their value in the last fortnight or so.

At an earlier "tyre kicking" session three months ago I looked at an Audi RS4, half seriously, after a test drive I wasn't overly impressed, very very quick but tank like after my Boxster. I was quoted Pounds40k p/x then and the salesman told me then that there was a serious oversupply of Boxsters. The car has dropped Pounds6.5k since then, that's over Pounds2k a month! My grievance is that the previously carefully Porsche managed supply and demand balance seems to have been overtaken by greed.

Obviously going into winter is the worst time for selling a sports car, I was merely tyre kicking. I'd better stop before I give myself a coronary!

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Nov 26, 2007 8:06:34 PM

percymon: Senior; Loc: Chester; Posts: 765, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 23, 2005; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Boxster Residual Values - A Joke!

There is a 500 mile old loaded 3.4 on ebay currently at Pounds41k with no bids - cost new Pounds51k

The delaer will market your car for Pounds42k, sell for Pounds40k - the winter isn't the best time for tyre kicking !

If you really want a BMW then get hold of Pat lawless at www.carfile.net and bag yourself 9% off list - still pay and collect from the dealer.

Sell the Boxster privately

BMW dealers have barely used z4m for Pounds30k - thats Pounds14k drop on retail to retail !

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Nov 26, 2007 8:12:17 PM

ISUK: Rennteam Master; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 4206, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Boxster Residual Values - A Joke!

If it's any consolation UK allocations for next year have been cut back to help restore residuals so if there are interest rate cuts as predicted and confidence comes back then we may see prices recovering a little in the spring. It's all relative though. I just traded my girlfriend's 2 year old 987 2.7 in for an 8 month old S which was far more cost effective than going for a new car. Although I was spanked on the value of my car, I negotiated a healthy reduction on the S due to slow sales so the cost to change worked out fairly advantageously

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Nov 26, 2007 8:19:32 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8804, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: percymon

Re: Boxster Residual Values - A Joke!

Thanks for the tip - but I'm neither selling or buying. On reflection a 123d not really suitable for my needs, great car that it undeniably is. I'll use my Civic Diesel for the IoW Ferry Refit Season commute (started early this year - first one already completed on Saturday) - and the Boxster for blasts. It's in the garage now on charge-o-mat life support but had a great drive out on Sunday in the crisp winter sunshine.

Found a great long underpass under the M3 near Winchester for surround sound PSE - amazing

SWMBO finds driving a manual car more of an ordeal since her recent op, so she's now got a Honda Jazz auto, which is this year's car purchase. :

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Nov 26, 2007 8:29:06 PM

GR: Senior; Loc: S Bucks, England , United Kingdom; Posts: 779, Gallery; Registered on: May 17, 2005; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Boxster Residual Values - A Joke!

There's a 6 month old Cayman S at Hatfield, with nearly Pounds18k worth of options, up for Pounds53k and I bet they'll negotiate. Bearing in mind the difference between trade and retail, someone took a huge hit (although not too surprising with all those options).

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Nov 26, 2007 8:55:36 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8804, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: GR

Re: Boxster Residual Values - A Joke!

Quote:
GR said:
There's a 6 month old Cayman S at Hatfield, with nearly Pounds18k worth of options, up for Pounds53k and I bet they'll negotiate. Bearing in mind the difference between trade and retail, someone took a huge hit (although not too surprising with all those options).

That's undeniably what's hit my car, as I ticked a lot of boxes

Just looked that car up - huge spec as you say including PCCB - which indicates to me it may be an ex Porsche car.

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Nov 26, 2007 9:01:10 PM

The Groom: Expert; Loc: EU; Posts: 1779, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 23, 2005; Reply to: GR

Re: Boxster Residual Values - A Joke!

I'm sorry to hear that. Unfortunately, Porsche resale values have always been a myth, because of the option policy.

A Pounds33k Boxster needs about Pounds5k in "must-have" options. Let's say that Pounds38k Boxster sells for Pounds28k after a year.

So, we have a situation where most Boxsters sell for Pounds28k (because the original buyers know that without those options, their car won't sell on the used market).

Then people look at the Pounds33k sticker price and think: "The Boxster is great, it only lost Pounds5k in its first year!" - conveniently forgetting the extra Pounds5k in options.

Only the 911 Turbo is not affected, since it's good enough in stock form (bar SC and LSD, which are pretty cheap).

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Nov 26, 2007 9:10:18 PM

The Groom: Expert; Loc: EU; Posts: 1779, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 23, 2005; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Boxster Residual Values - A Joke!

Quote:
dreamcar said:
That's undeniably what's hit my car, as I ticked a lot of boxes Just looked that car up - huge spec as you say including PCCB - which indicates to me it may be an ex Porsche car.

I'd stay clear from those options. It was probably a former press car, which was abused to no end by journalists...

On the German used car site, it's often quite a challenge to find out which car is a former press car, and which car is a former employee car. The latter is a great buy, the former is not.

The proof is in the pudding, or rather in the length of the option list. PCCB on a Boxster is often a dead giveaway, especially if there are several cars with the very same spec for sale at the same time.

Of course, it's an easier guess in the UK, since there are no RHD employee cars.

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Nov 26, 2007 9:17:50 PM

GR: Senior; Loc: S Bucks, England , United Kingdom; Posts: 779, Gallery; Registered on: May 17, 2005; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Boxster Residual Values - A Joke!

Quote:
dreamcar said:
Quote:
GR said:
There's a 6 month old Cayman S at Hatfield, with nearly Pounds18k worth of options, up for Pounds53k and I bet they'll negotiate. Bearing in mind the difference between trade and retail, someone took a huge hit (although not too surprising with all those options).

That's undeniably what's hit my car, as I ticked a lot of boxes Just looked that car up - huge spec as you say including PCCB - which indicates to me it may be an ex Porsche car.

Quite possibly but Cobalt and Black doesn't seem a safe bet, which the Porsche GB cars usually are. There's another Cayman S with PCCB in Lapis Blue (up at Newcastle I think) and I have to say it looks stunning.

Although I'm not ready to replace my old 986, I have been talking to the salesmen at various OPCs and the consensus seems to be that PCCB on a 987 is equivalent to backing at 3 legged asthmatic nag at 5349 to 1. Unless of course you plan to keep your car for years when savings in discs and pads might offset some of the outlay.

The really odd part though is the varying advice on "essential" options. None of the salesmen agree and I think there is a great deal of regional variation. The only consensus seems to be keep it simple for maximum residuals.

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Nov 26, 2007 9:35:45 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8804, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: GR

Re: Boxster Residual Values - A Joke!

Quote:
GR said:
The really odd part though is the varying advice on "essential" options. None of the salesmen agree and I think there is a great deal of regional variation. The only consensus seems to be keep it simple for maximum residuals.

Glass's Guide valuation (from the dealer's book) assumes righty or wrongly PASM, PCM and 19" wheels.

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Nov 26, 2007 10:28:02 PM

GR: Senior; Loc: S Bucks, England , United Kingdom; Posts: 779, Gallery; Registered on: May 17, 2005; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Boxster Residual Values - A Joke!

Quote:
dreamcar said
Glass's Guide valuation (from the dealer's book) assumes righty or wrongly PASM, PCM and 19" wheels.

That is quite a big spec and 3 things well down in my personal preference. Not that it matters for me as I've given up replacing every 2 years.

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Nov 27, 2007 6:03:00 PM

Delbox: Junior; Loc: UK; Posts: 109, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2005; Reply to: GR

Re: Boxster Residual Values - A Joke!

If I recall correctly, depreciation is NOT the difference between the original selling price and the trade in value; rather it is between the original selling price and the used retail price. Therefore, if you use the latter figures, the Boxster still stands up well.

I'm not a car dealer - and I too have lost a great deal of money trading in cars too early. Selling a new car in the first year of its life does see the owner lose a great deal of money; it's always been that way. The losses diminish with age - to a point, and are greater with expensive cars (particularly those with many options, few of which gain the seller any benefits).

Del

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Nov 27, 2007 8:56:31 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8804, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: Delbox

Re: Boxster Residual Values - A Joke!

Well I've now forgotten about depreciation and confirmed our three night hotel break in the Loire next April http://www.brittany-ferries.co.uk/index.cfm?articleid=2184
touring chateau followed by a week in Brittany again at the Holiday Property Bond's Manoir du Hilguy near Quimper http://www.hpb.co.uk/properties.html#

SWMBO very keen to visit the Black Forest and Bavaria as well at some stage - pencilled for either September 08 or spring 09.

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Nov 28, 2007 8:18:07 AM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Boxster Residual Values - A Joke!

The other thing that causes depreciation havock is high mileage. And for a sports car like the Boxster, high is compared to all the other cars on the used list. Most only see a few k miles a year, so if you use your car a lot (or normally!) they you get hit in the pants come trade-in time.

Buy used, and keep for a long time I think is the only way to go.

Mine is two and a half years old, has 34k miles, cost Pounds47k and is now about 25k trade in.

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Nov 28, 2007 9:34:46 AM

Porsche-Jeck: Rennteam Master; Loc: Rheinland , Germany; Posts: 4856, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 27, 2005; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: Boxster Residual Values - A Joke!

Quote:
wtsnet said:
The other thing that causes depreciation havock is high mileage.

Actually (at least true for the German market) high mileage (as long as not "excessive") doesn't hurt you that bad in terms of additional depreciation. Depreciation per driven mile is far better for cars with high mileage compared to garage queens. Keeping mileage low in order to optimize resale value is crazy IMHO - just like renting a holiday house for a full year while using it only for a couple of weeks

I'm convinced that it makes more economical sense to drive your P-car as much as possible (maybe different for F-car owners

) - not to talk about the added fun (priceless intangible asset)

Of course you always take a bath when selling a new car after 1 year only (whatever the mileage may be).
Re the "oversupply" argument: I think there is no oversupply in the new car market (otherwise huge discounts would be the result in a free market). However the tons of leasing cars are a problem for the used car market once the first wave of leasing-returners of a new model hit the showrooms: in case of P-cars most of the still quite young cars still are too expensive for the typical used car buyer, whereas other buyers don't care spending some more bucks in order to spec the car to their likings and to enjoy the ius prima noctae

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Nov 30, 2007 7:06:34 PM

Atzporsche: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Vancouver , Canada; Posts: 9118, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 7, 2005; Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

Re: Boxster Residual Values - A Joke!

I think its logical it looses so much in the year years because Porsche is a upper and exclusive brand with most nuyers over 40. So one who can afford the entry Porsche will most likely go to 60K -70K to get a brand new one.. the market for used Porsches in this segment considering the age group we're talking about, makes used porsches unattractive.

For me, im waiting for the day i can buy a 987!!!! in blue!

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Nov 30, 2007 7:23:12 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8804, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: Atzporsche

Re: Boxster Residual Values - A Joke!

Quote:
Atzporsche said:
For me, im waiting for the day i can buy a 987!!!! in blue!

I'm sure you will get there - trust me, it's worth the wait - our 987 S 3.4 is amazing.

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