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    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    Funny, they used the same GPS unit from Garmin WE used to use to measure top speed.
    Now we switched to the Magellan Roadmate 700.

    The 10.7 accel. time from 0-125 mph for the SLR and Carrera GT are highly disappointing. The GT2 Mk2 does 0-125 mph in 11.7-12.1 seconds (three different tests). Even the 10.3 sec time of the Enzo disappoints a little bit.
    But nethertheless...impressive beasts, I would love to own them ALL.

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    speaking of "world of it's own", here are the results from the AMS conducted track test post their Nardo high speed test:

    Carrera GT 53.86
    Enzo 54.98
    Lambo (Merci) 55.82
    SLR 57.45

    One clearly was built to abuse the rest in the twisties (where I play) and some of that downforce and other technology employed to do does seem to hurt it at higher speeds (which are irrelevant to me).

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    That article is fuming with biased BS.

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    It was only a rumour, but I'd heard that tehre was a chance the CGT was running a more downforce than usual or the Enzo was running less. It would explain the remarkable difference in straightline speed and no less remarkable difference at the track.

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    Is this a NEW Nardo test? Or just the old one, republished?

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    Old one

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    Those are good times (though a little disappointing) Still they are nothing compaired to this car...

    0-60mph - 2.7secs
    0-100mph - 5.5secs
    0-150mph - 11.8secs
    30-70mph - 2.0secs
    0-100mph-0 - 10.3secs
    100mph-0 Braking - 3.9secs
    Standing 1/4 mile - 10.5secs @ 140mph terminal
    Speed Achieved - 204mph on the Bruntingthorpe straight
    Top Speed - 231mph est. (gearing limited)

    And you could buy about 5 or 6 of them for the price of an Enzo... The Ultima GTR.

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    Quote:
    Mithras said:
    Those are good times (though a little disappointing) Still they are nothing compaired to this car...

    0-60mph - 2.7secs
    0-100mph - 5.5secs
    0-150mph - 11.8secs
    30-70mph - 2.0secs
    0-100mph-0 - 10.3secs
    100mph-0 Braking - 3.9secs
    Standing 1/4 mile - 10.5secs @ 140mph terminal
    Speed Achieved - 204mph on the Bruntingthorpe straight
    Top Speed - 231mph est. (gearing limited)

    And you could buy about 5 or 6 of them for the price of an Enzo... The Ultima GTR.



    With what engine?

    Also another amazing car is the dauer 962LM but I dont want to go off topic

    basically 962 > ultima GTR

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    Why is anyone surprised by these results? The Enzo has 40hp more and is lighter than the CGT. It was a foregone conclusion.

    Ben, this is no different than your CGT outpowering 99.9% of the cars on the road. Why would anyone think they can stay with you in a speed test?

    Regarding twisties, none of these supercars can claim any prize. Consider the lap times at the Ring of cars designed specifically for that purpose. They all were blown away.

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Why is anyone surprised by these results? The Enzo has 40hp more and is lighter than the CGT. It was a foregone conclusion.

    Ben, this is no different than your CGT outpowering 99.9% of the cars on the road. Why would anyone think they can stay with you in a speed test?

    Regarding twisties, none of these supercars can claim any prize. Consider the lap times at the Ring of cars designed specifically for that purpose. They all were blown away.



    all i know is there is only one track test of the CGT vs. the Enzo on the same day in the same conditions and the CGT embarassed the Enzo by as much or more than the Enzo embarassed the CGT in a straight line. the top gear test was on different days. the reason the Enzo works the CGT in a straight line is probably the same reason the CGT works the Enzo on the track - difference in downforce. doesn't much matter though because besides very similar performance, i get to row my own gears and enjoy the convertible experience in the CGT - with nothing but an oil change once/year.

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    Other than a comment by Rohrl I've heard nothing that indicates the CGT has more downforce. Better through the twisties perhaps, but all published numbers indicate the Enzo is running quite a bit more.

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    ahhh....the SLR

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Why is anyone surprised by these results? The Enzo has 40hp more and is lighter than the CGT. It was a foregone conclusion.




    btw, it looks like ferrari's growing nose has struck again. the real curb weight in independent magazine tests has showed the enzo to weigh 200 lbs more than ferrari's claims or nearly a 200 lb heavier (3230) than the base similarly equipped CGT and 100 lb heavier than a CGT equipped with the no cost optional nav,a/c,stereo. no wonder the spankings are administered to it by the CGT on the track despite the power diff (if that power claim is more accurate than it is on the stradale that is).

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    Ben thats ridiculous, 200lbs!? if true, its pathetic... they lied about the real HP output of their F360SC, the F430 turns out to be 150lbs heavier than what they say, now the Enzo is really 200lbs heavier? not very trust inspireing if you ask me.

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    btw, it looks like ferrari's growing nose has struck again. the real curb weight in independent magazine tests has showed the enzo to weigh 200 lbs more than ferrari's claims or nearly a 200 lb heavier (3230) than the base similarly equipped CGT .....



    Hmmm, it's a shame independent magazine tests don't include a dyno test of true engine power measured at the flywheel. The results could be interesting!

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    I thought the CGT was lighter than the enzo, I was pretty sure I red it in a mag.
    But anyways, niether of the two are as light ast they should be, why cant they be lighter like the mclaren f1?

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    Quote:
    dsts6 said:
    I thought the CGT was lighter than the enzo, I was pretty sure I red it in a mag.
    But anyways, niether of the two are as light ast they should be, why cant they be lighter like the mclaren f1?



    yes, the loaded CGT is 100 lbs lighter and the similarly equipped one to the Enzo is 200 lbs lighter.

    the MC F1 is an older car without power steering, ABS, power brakes, air bags, and the littany of other required safety stuff in cars today. as well the CGT has FOUR catalytic convertors. also, i believe the CGT has a bigger fuel capacity than the MC which would also negatively affect curb weight. that said, there is 650 extra lbs on a CGT equipped similarly to the F1 (a/c, stereo/CD, Nav, etc) and 750 extra lbs on an Enzo (which is stripped compared to the CGT and Enzo). this is obviously a LOT. however, i just don't know how porsche could have made it any lighter. ferrari was also able to build a less safe, non emmission compliant to todays standards, no power brakes and steering F40 which weighed in with the MC, but that time has no passed with new laws and regulations.

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:

    the F430 turns out to be 150lbs heavier than what they say,



    But, it will still be 300-400lbs. lighter than a 997tt. Pity, when the 430 beats the 997tt in a comparison test... the extra weight will be its only Achilles' heel.

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:

    the F430 turns out to be 150lbs heavier than what they say,



    But, it will still be 300-400lbs. lighter than a 997tt.



    the 430 number i saw the other day - and keep in mind it's a ferrari "stated" number was 3352. porsche will drop a few notches in my mind if they produce a 997Ttt which is 150 to 250 lbs heavier than the 996 tt whose weight has been confirmed numerous times via corner balancing by owners who actually drive them w/ a need for corner balancing.

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:

    the F430 turns out to be 150lbs heavier than what they say,



    But, it will still be 300-400lbs. lighter than a 997tt. Pity, when the 430 beats the 997tt in a comparison test... the extra weight will be its only Achilles' heel.



    I haven't heard the 997TT's weight yet to be able to come to such a conclusion of a 3750-3850lbs 997TT. But, judging by the 997C2 vs 996C2, and the 996TTS' weight it should be around 200lbs difference than the F430, not 300-400lbs, but who knows maybe we will get a surprise for better or for worse. Also the 996TT's extra weight didn't seem to hurt its handling compared to the F360 either, so if they keep the weight "similar" to the 996TT, then it should be a problem.

    But thats not what I was reffering to, my point is why they always have to lie about and hide their real weight and HP figures, even in the Enzo now, do they think we won't find out... kind of lame.

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Ben thats ridiculous, 200lbs!? if true, its pathetic... they lied about the real HP output of their F360SC, the F430 turns out to be 150lbs heavier than what they say, now the Enzo is really 200lbs heavier? not very trust inspireing if you ask me.



    It seems Ferrari are always heavier than what the factory states.
    I read in one RC's port lately that it seems to also be the case for the 997S tested by AMS.
    They state over 1460 kgs and that car had the 20mm chassis and PCCB, so as light as it gets, Porsche states 1420 kgs!
    Go figure...
    Same for the 996 Turbo.
    Between the year it was launched (2000) I think and now, the car has gained about 100 kgs! Figures from Porsche website.
    And not much has changed really between the 2000 model and now.
    Maybe the glovebox is extremely heavy?

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    Are you sure Francois? the 996TT is curently 1590Kg, and I don't think it was ever under 1500kg when introduced, if I remember correctly it awas around 200kg heavier than the 996C2 of the time making it more around 1545kg

    About the -20mm 997S, I have been wondering how much the rear differential of the -20mm weighed towards having any influence if any the kerb weight of the 997S. How much can a rear mechanical LSD weigh? anybody

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Are you sure Francois? the 996TT is curently 1590Kg, and I don't think it was ever under 1500kg when introduced, if I remember correctly it awas around 200kg heavier than the 996C2 of the time making it more around 1545kg




    If I remember correctly, when the 996 Turbo was introduced, its weight was advertised at 1540 kgs. So not quite 100 kgs difference with you today you're right, but somewhere along the line, the Turbo has gained 50 kgs in its production life...

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    About the -20mm 997S, I have been wondering how much the rear differential of the -20mm weighed towards having any influence if any the kerb weight of the 997S. How much can a rear mechanical LSD weigh? anybody


    I think it's probably around 25 pounds (12kg), based on this info for the 915 gearbox:

    http://wevo.com/wevo915spool.htm

    The 997's use a beefier LSD than the one on the 915 gearbox (on all 911's between 1972 and 1986) when the max power was just over 230hp - 997(S) makes over 100hp more, so I imagine it's heavier and stronger. The Turbo used a separate stronger 4-speed gearbox.

    Carlos, I think the LSD will more than make up for the weight penalty with extra performance in the corners (said to be entire seconds/lap) in the attached article:

    http://www.guardtransmission.com/velocity.htm

    Can't wait to hear how you like it

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    Quote:
    Fanch said:but somewhere along the line, the Turbo has gained 50 kgs in its production life...



    I'm curious as to were those 50Kgs went... stiffer chasis revisions like in the 2002 facelift 996 carrera?



    Quote:
    Grant said:
    I think it's probably around 25 pounds (12kg), based on this info for the 915 gearbox...

    ...Carlos, I think the LSD will more than make up for the weight penalty with extra performance in the corners (said to be entire seconds/lap) in the attached article:

    http://www.guardtransmission.com/velocity.htm




    Thanks Grant, I didn't know how much a diff weighed aprox
    I completely agree that it will make up for it, seems like the LSD plays a very impotant role in the -20mm suspension setup, the Supertest Hockenheim times are incredible.
    Great article BTW, thanks!

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    why is the 911 turbo so heavy? what stops them from making it lighter

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:


    I haven't heard the 997TT's weight yet to be able to come to such a conclusion of a 3750-3850lbs 997TT. But, judging by the 997C2 vs 996C2, and the 996TTS' weight it should be around 200lbs difference than the F430, not 300-400lbs, but who knows maybe we will get a surprise for better or for worse. Also the 996TT's extra weight didn't seem to hurt its handling compared to the F360 either, so if they keep the weight "similar" to the 996TT, then it should be a problem.





    I've read the f430 is about 3300lbs. The 997tt is guaranteed to be heavier than a 996tt. I'm estimating it to weigh more than 3600lbs.

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    Quote:
    dsts6 said:
    why is the 911 turbo so heavy? what stops them from making it lighter



    AWD + 50 lbs in back seats alone. these two differences alone probably account for a large portion of the delta between the F360 and the 996TT. note the GT2 w/out these two items weighs less than a 360 despite the lack of any advanced materials like the aluminum used extensively in the 360. the question should probably be why does the 360 weigh so much given all the aluminum.

    Re: V Max: Enzo, CGT, Murci, SLR & others

    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:


    I haven't heard the 997TT's weight yet to be able to come to such a conclusion of a 3750-3850lbs 997TT. But, judging by the 997C2 vs 996C2, and the 996TTS' weight it should be around 200lbs difference than the F430, not 300-400lbs, but who knows maybe we will get a surprise for better or for worse. Also the 996TT's extra weight didn't seem to hurt its handling compared to the F360 either, so if they keep the weight "similar" to the 996TT, then it should be a problem.





    I've read the f430 is about 3300lbs. The 997tt is guaranteed to be heavier than a 996tt. I'm estimating it to weigh more than 3600lbs.



    3352, but again that is ferrari's "stated" weight and we know how valid that usually is.

     
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