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    60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    60th Anniversary Mobil 1 Twelve Hours of Sebring

    http://www.americanlemans.com/races/60th-anniversary-mobil-1-twelve-hours-sebring

    Follow the 2012 911 RSR in action!

     

     


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    The 2012 RSR is showing itself  incapable of keeping up with the opposition. Very sad to see Porsche allow this to happen.


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    Old model at the end of its racing career. Should Porsche take a year off until the 991 racer comes? I'm not sure if that would have been better.

    Nevertheless, I expect it spring some surprises in 2012.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    Yeah. The "problem" is that they are "selling" the RSR as a "new" car , when it is really just the same 997 based car in wolf's clothing.

    Sure they have made some changes, but the base is still from the same model.

    They simply don't have a GT motorsport product that is competitive (from the word go) and it is loosing Porsche motorsport many sales.

    It is important to remember that the current RSR is already running with 0.3mm bigger restrictors and less 25Kg than the 458 and it simply is "miles" behind in lap times ( this based on lap times so far).

    Incidentally: It is the only GT car (along with the Aston) that has not managed to get into the flat 2:00 time zone.

    Very frustrating indeed!


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    So just to prove that I'm wrong, Richard Lietz  put in the fastest lap in the last pracrtice befor qualifying. The RSR is also the first car to break the 2:00 barrier.

    This is very good to see (although it is only one of the RSR's), but I'm still concerned . It is normal to sandbag during the Sebring practices, so I suspect that the Vettes, BMW's and 458 will still have some more in them to give.

    keep your fingers crossed.


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    So they haven´t been in qualifying yet? Maybe they focussed on long-run performance in practice, am also very curious if the extensive modifications have helped. I don´t think Porsche´d be able to sell any cars at reasonable price if they wouldn´t have stepped up.


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    Qualy is at 8:35 CET.

    I really hope that Lietz's time was not the max the car can do. I suspect the opposition has a few tricks up their sleeves.

    Coincidentally : the 1:59.9 that Richard did was the first time ever that a GT car has gotten below the 2:00 barrier at Sebring.

     


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    As suspected. The 911RSR was roundly beaten by the F458"s, Vettes and BMW.

    On to the race. It is going to be a long, long race.


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    It seems there is no chance for Porsche in this race... 2 secs from leader - too much. The only chance - reliability... Race is long, will see...


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    Reliability now a days is so good, that it is almost not an issue.

    Porsche has only one way to go: Bring on the 961 ASAP!


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    Reliability...not always good. BMW had problems sometimes, ferrari 458 last year ... Sebring is not an easy track for suspension also... Will see.

    Yes, the main problem - old chassis. 

    But anyway, in Porsche we trust)))


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    Yes Sebring is a tough track, but relying on your oppositions reliability (or lack there of) is not a good way to go racing. (i was actually referring to the championship as a whole)

    A really embarrassing day for Porsche. I hope some good comes from the utter humiliation.

    The writing has been on the wall for a couple of years now. They need to recognize it and move on.


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    ...and to add insult to injury, the #17 Falken Porsche stopped on track after warm-up with smoke coming out of the engine. A "mature" racing car?1331988421258headache.gif


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

     


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    Finished 6th in class behind BMW, Vette, and F458.

    Who would have thought we would see the day that Porsche would be at the back of the field?banghead.gif


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    The Porsche GT car is out of date in the face of 3 manufacturer competition. At least BMW won instead of Ferrari!

    Look at the bright side that last year's RSR won the GT-AM class blush


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    The writing has been on the wall for some time. 

    Unfortunately we are going to see something similar in the Blanclain  series (GT3) with the McLarens dominating.

     


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    reginos I would have though that losing from Ferrari would have been preferable then losing to a waiver wagon :)

     


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    Porsche like to look at the bright side of things. They saw a successful debut surprise

    http://www.porsche.com/uk/motorsportandevents/motorsport/news/?pool=motorsport&id=fc215e6d-dc33-4ff8-9205-e3afd3506b6e&l...

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    My word! I suspect that in the old days the excrement would have it the fan back in Weissach.1332160541008hitsfan.gif

    I' m surprised at Hartmut's comment regarding BoP. The F458 is the only car that has not had any restrictor or weight breaks (it had some waivers to do with width I think), so there really isn't much to investigate. That car should be the benchmark.

    Forget the Vettes, and the BMW. One has had quite a few BoP breaks, and the BMW is just a waiver mobile.

    The only reason I can think of as to why he is making this comment is because I suppose that Porsche intends on asking the ACO for further performance breaks. If true, then this is a great shame, and it really is no way of being competitive. (Keep in mind that Porsche has already received a 0.3mm restricor break and is running 25Kg less than the F458)

    If Ferrari can build a fast GT car, then surely Porsche can too. (or have they lost the knack and only know how to produce SUV's now a days? angry)

     


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    Spyderidol:

    If Ferrari can build a fast GT car, then surely Porsche can too. (or have they lost the knack and only know how to produce SUV's now a days? angry)

    Careful now, no making fun of SUVs - that could get you shot on this forum!  Smiley

    A sad say for Porsche motorsport.  Hopefully this is just a temporary situation and we'll see Porsche back to its glory days by 2014 at the latest (I'm trying to find a silver lining).  Smiley


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    Right now I'm not sure that the LMP1 project should not be put back two or three years.

    The GT products are real money makers for Porsche Motorsport. As things stand, it is quite clear that Porsche does not have a GT product that is competitive out of the box and does not need artificial stimulus in order to be victorious.

    I'm wondering if they should not first concentrate in getting the GT products under control and competitive , before embarking on their LMP1 project.

    Their regretful performance this past week-end has really shaken my confidence in their current abilities. Yes the car is "new", and yes we know that they will find some more speed from the car, but to be almost 2 seconds off the pace (both qualifying and racing pace) is just plainly outrageous (for Porsche). It did nothing to enhance the Porsche image, and in spite of all the "positive"  PR nonsense that is being excreted by  some, I sincerely hope that there are some tough meetings being held in Weissach. Reality needs to be faced, and plans need to be made. Fast !


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    Do you think that the 991 platform will be a better basis for a successful car?

    Also, given the extra wheelbase of the 991, could Porsche manage to get a waiver to move the engine forward to a more M-E position?


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    I think it may be an improvement. The question I cannot answer (yet) is whether it will  be enough of an improvement. Is the bare (sans electronic gizmos) 991chassis much better than the current 997?. If so then there will be a marked improvement, if not, then bring on the 961  ASAP. (It is my understanding that one of the main issues (there are others) with the rear engine layout is getting the balance of the car right).

    The other problem is engine. Can the Porsche flat six compete with the 458 V8? . It should be Porsche's objective to have an engine that can compete with the 458's engine without  resorting to BoP in order to make it competitive,

    I am sure Porsche could eventually get a waiver to move the engine, but that really defeats the purpose of racing in the GT class. These cars are supposed to be based on the road going versions of the same car. Porsche likes this type of racing, precisely because it is so closely associated to their road going products. (although I sometimes wonder about its effectiveness. Just look and see how many on this forum (mostly 911 owners) take any interest in sportscar racing)

    There really is no point in taking the BMW route and racing what is essentially a prototype against other GT cars.

    Lets see how this evolves - Unfortunately we will never know what is really going on (and what the thinking is ) behind the scenes.

     


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    Any chance of turbo engines being allowed again, since motorsport authorities want to appear stressing  fuel efficiency and downsizing? The real V8 competitor from Porsche is the turbo F6 not the n/a F6.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    not really a level playing field using a 4l turbo vs a 4.5l N/A....2l turbos are alowed btw

    also the reason no one is using the 2l turbos is Because they are strangled...whitch is best I guess, since there is no way to balance NA and turbos in the same class.

    Dont think porsche problem i the engine size, or configurations, as much as it is how old the engine is...it is over 20 years old, even though its probably one of the best engines ever designed it still want desinged to be raced a 4l as high reving NA, but a 3.2l  low reving Turbo.. also it doesn't suport DFI.etf..I think if porsche build a next gen F6 racing engne they would be fine.(engine wise)


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    Actually regs allow 4.0petrol turbo for GT. The problem is that they regulate the boost so low that it is simply not competitive.

    Also no DFI allowed in GTE class.


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    Spyderidol:

    Actually regs allow 3.2 petrol turbo for GT. The problem is that they regulate the boost so low that it is simply not competitive. Also no DFI allowed in GTE class.

    Check the regs again, it is alowed as long as the production model has it. The racing 458 has a DFI engine.


    Re: 60th Anniversaryof the 12hours-Sebring - March 17

    Yes, the DFI has now been included.

    Also - just checked and the Turbo petrol engine has a limit of 4.0L (although else where in on the ACO site it says 3.2l)


     
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