Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Truth about PDK - Page2

Aug 2, 2007 4:53:37 AM

WBH: Expert; Loc: CA; Posts: 1963, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: Truth about PDK

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
Alex (UK) said:
Already told by Porsche that PDK will replace Tip, not manual.

Absolutely correct. "PDK" replaces Tiptronic, not manual. Porsche can finally end the "ordeal" to use a major drivetrain part from one of their toughest competitors.

Presumably PDK is at least 1 yr away on 997TT....and presumably chassis tech (smarter, more networked computers for stab ctrls/gearing/brakes, etc) of 997TT will advance in that period....

Would observe that F hasn't been able to develop a properly functioning Luddite manual gearbox that is compatible w/the chassis tech of 599 (the archaic 430 apparently seemed acceptable w/a Luddite manual, but chassis tech has evolved in subsequent ?2 yrs since 430 launch).....my guess is that archaic manuals are incompatible w/latest/greatest chassis tech......

And I would speculate that as chassis tech further evolves in next 1-2 yrs w/faster/smarter computers, even PDK w/human input re: gear selection may be slower/more destabilizing vs letting the various computers sort out the situation w/o human interference, except for steering/throttle/brakes....and, most importantly, savvy (human) risk/reward judgment.....

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Aug 2, 2007 6:36:57 AM

Ziggy: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1590, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 27, 2004; Reply to: WBH

Re: Truth about PDK

Quote:
WBH said:

And I would speculate that as chassis tech further evolves in next 1-2 yrs w/faster/smarter computers, even PDK w/human input re: gear selection may be slower/more destabilizing vs letting the various computers sort out the situation w/o human interference, except for steering/throttle/brakes....and, most importantly, savvy (human) risk/reward judgment.....

As an engineer with a background in systems simulation, electronic and electrical engineering, I agree here.

Also let us not forget that in 2004 the F1 drivers used the opportunity to let the automated gearbox operate on its own.
I remember M.Schumacher stating several times he completely supports fully automated systems as they make him faster.

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Aug 2, 2007 6:50:30 AM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: WBH

Re: Truth about PDK

Quote:
WBH said:... I would speculate that as chassis tech further evolves in next 1-2 yrs w/faster/smarter computers, even PDK w/human input re: gear selection may be slower/more destabilizing vs letting the various computers sort out the situation w/o human interference, except for steering/throttle/brakes....and, most importantly, savvy (human) risk/reward judgment.....

What do you mean by that? Chassis tech? PAG has one of the best chassis designs ever. Active suspension is just an add-on - that's what PASM is. BTW the luxo-GT F-cars, e.g., 599, simply use GM's magna ride - and it's nothing special. The F430 you consider obsolete is a far better platform than the 599 for sure.

The computer, networking, integration you are talking about is a bunch of buzzwords - and I'm not a Luddite and I'm inside the industry - an if you paid any notice that tech integration by F-cars and PAG is suffering growing pains. Witness the dissatisfaction some serious 997TT owners have re the "networked" drivetrain.

I'm not arguing that a good auto tranny or double-clutch design (PDK) is not a good choice. I think it is. I'm also for PASM, but within reason. But that has nothing to do with the electronic gimmickry that is invading cars these days and transforming the driving experience completely.

I've been hearing you prasing the SL-XX AMGs and today I wandered by a MB dealer. I was shocked with the amount of gizmos (garbage really) MB piles onto those cars (AMGs and most o their regular line cars). They are not sports cars, they are polished playstation dens on wheels. I do not want such a car. When I escaped out of the MB dealer my 911 never felt so good.

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Aug 3, 2007 2:50:58 AM

Ksurg: Junior; Loc: SF Bay Area, CA; Posts: 77, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 15, 2007; Reply to: ADias

Re: Truth about PDK

ADias,
Here's P's official response:

Hello Ksurg

This is an excerpt from the information I have found on PCNA source -
Remember the persistent rumor on the largest Porsche-specific chatboard claiming that all sports-car models would soon use a PDK clutchless-manual transmission rather than a Tiptronic design? This rumor originated way back in 1999, and has resurfaced periodically since. That's eight years of "inside information"-- all obviously false.

This is all that I have found regarding PDK transmissions in Porsche. The above information was posted on the Porsche information site today, so it is not outdated information. From my guess- No- Porsche has no intention on offering a PDK transmission in the 997 turbo or any other vehicle.

Have you found anything that says otherwise? I'd love to see if it is one of those "false-inside information" sites.
Regards,
Jolene

And then I gave her a link to this thread and the response:

Ksurg,
I did read the messages, however, Porsche will not, and has not released any official information regarding PDK other than it is a rumor. I wish I could give you some better insight so you could decide when to place your order. I agree that it would be hard to swallow, if the car you just received delivery on, was released with PDK months after, but I do need to stand by the Porsche way and say that the "inside information" is false information and not from an inside source. Porsche has the tightest security policies when it comes to future ideas and models. Many of the pre released pictures are purely 'photoshopped' by competitors or enthustiasts. Please feel free to contact me again, if you have any other questions or concerns!
Have a great day.
Warm regards,
Jolene
Porsche General Response Team
(800) Porsche, Option 5

So I guess business as usual and we won't know when PDK will be an option until we see it in the showroom!

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Aug 3, 2007 3:28:49 AM

turbonator: Newbie; Loc: NY, USA; Posts: 23, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 19, 2006; Reply to: Ksurg

Re: Truth about PDK

Fearing that people are going to delay purchases, Porsche probably wouldn't say anything unless PDK was within a few months of release. Their silence does not bode well at this point. Using Apple as an example, they are super secretive when it comes to new products, yet rumors (most proven to be correct later on) abound. Put another way, if a new gadget or technoogy was being worked on actively, then information leaks are inevitable.

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Aug 3, 2007 4:11:43 AM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: turbonator

Re: Truth about PDK

Ksurg:

PCNA could not state otherwise. There is no question that PDK will come and soon. Will it be an '08 '09 or '10 MY I do not know, but they will have one to replace tiptronic. I'm 100% certain that PCNA will deny PDK will come on the eve of its announcement. Standard corporate policy of never commenting on announced products and even denying them.

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Aug 3, 2007 5:34:54 AM

Ksurg: Junior; Loc: SF Bay Area, CA; Posts: 77, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 15, 2007; Reply to: turbonator

Re: Truth about PDK

Quote:
turbonator said:
Fearing that people are going to delay purchases, Porsche probably wouldn't say anything unless PDK was within a few months of release. Their silence does not bode well at this point. Using Apple as an example, they are super secretive when it comes to new products, yet rumors (most proven to be correct later on) abound. Put another way, if a new gadget or technoogy was being worked on actively, then information leaks are inevitable.

Turbonator...I get it! Remember I live in Silicon Valley. But somehow the leaks definitely happen.

ADias, I agree that P will deny PDK until its actual release. However, you would think that it would have to correspond with a new MY. Otherwise how would they deal with orders?

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Aug 3, 2007 7:17:55 AM

ray911: Co-Pilot; Loc: NRW, Germany; Posts: 152, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 26, 2003; Reply to: Ksurg

Re: Truth about PDK

Quote:
Ksurg said:
ADias, I agree that P will deny PDK until its actual release. However, you would think that it would have to correspond with a new MY. Otherwise how would they deal with orders?

That is not a real problem. Either it comes with a new MY or you have it in the order guides but it has a remark like "available from 02/09" or something. There were many introductions in which certain options were only available later in a MY.

Currently it seems unclear whether PDK is available in spring 2008 with the facelift as MY09 for base 997s. It will surely not be available for TTs or GT*s at that time.

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Aug 3, 2007 8:56:02 AM

Joost: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Dordrecht , Netherlands; Posts: 8037, Gallery; Registered on: May 3, 2004; Reply to: ray911

Re: Truth about PDK

I think that this:

Quote:
but I do need to stand by the Porsche way and say that the "inside information" is false information and not from an inside source.

says enough. There is something in the pipeline definately, but she is just not allowed to say anything, and she is certainly not going to do it in any written form.
-Joost-

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Aug 3, 2007 10:45:29 PM

Moogle: Rennteam Master; Loc: Bay Area , United States; Posts: 5019, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 9, 2003; Reply to: Joost

Re: Truth about PDK

The power handling issues are probably an excuse, I mean, it HAS been 25 years since Porsche invented the system.

It's up to the marketing division to decide when to release it now

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