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    re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

    FYI - According to my OPC mechanic there is a technical info release out about 2 weeks ago which says that if you are on the track the centre locking bolt should be tightened to 560Nm (not 500Nm -as per normal road use / what the book says)


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    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

       CL pg1.pdf

    CL pg2[2]

    1286981428560CL pg3[1].pdf

    CL pg4[1].pdf

     


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    Bye!


    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

    Indeed both locking force and correct position of the locking pin have been pointed out again. It surprises me that the service bulletin even states 600 Nm plus 30 Nm variation.

    Here it is in one document: Porsche bulletin 1.pdf


    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

    This confusion could lead to a serious accident. Porsche should address all their dealers to contact centre locking wheels customers to make clear what the requirements are (street, track, correct position of locking pin). I bet that there are some centre locking wheels customers driving around in their cars without even knowing that there might be something wrong. 


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

    I think this was a big mistake for Porsche to introduce CL for its road cars.  One of the biggest issues is that it's no longer possible for one person to change his own wheels.  Porsche recommends that the car be off the ground when tightening the nut now and that is only possible for the front wheel if someone is inside the car pressing the brake pedal while another person turns the nut.  5-lug may be slightly heavier, but it is far more practical.


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    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

    Grant:

    I think this was a big mistake for Porsche to introduce CL for its road cars.  One of the biggest issues is that it's no longer possible for one person to change his own wheels.  Porsche recommends that the car be off the ground when tightening the nut now and that is only possible for the front wheel if someone is inside the car pressing the brake pedal while another person turns the nut.  5-lug may be slightly heavier, but it is far more practical.

     Correct. And that is why many people who track their 911 do not take this option .

    Anyway, it makes it also nearly impossible to do a wheel change yourself, as you need the proper tool


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     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

    Conny997:
    Gnil:
    Grant:

    I think this was a big mistake for Porsche to introduce CL for its road cars.  One of the biggest issues is that it's no longer possible for one person to change his own wheels.  Porsche recommends that the car be off the ground when tightening the nut now and that is only possible for the front wheel if someone is inside the car pressing the brake pedal while another person turns the nut.  5-lug may be slightly heavier, but it is far more practical.

     Correct. And that is why many people who track their 911 do not take this option .

    Anyway, it makes it also nearly impossible to do a wheel change yourself, as you need the proper tool

     

    Just one question: You wonna do a wheel CHANGE by yourself? Where do you have the spare wheel in an 911? If you have a slight defect you repair it with the spray and the compressor tool. In all other cases you need to bring the car in. Correct?

    Uncorrect !  I do change my wheels myself when I put my track rims on and when  I put my 'normal' rims back on... Is that  abnormal Smiley


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

    Gnil:
    Conny997:
    Gnil:
    Grant:

    I think this was a big mistake for Porsche to introduce CL for its road cars.  One of the biggest issues is that it's no longer possible for one person to change his own wheels.  Porsche recommends that the car be off the ground when tightening the nut now and that is only possible for the front wheel if someone is inside the car pressing the brake pedal while another person turns the nut.  5-lug may be slightly heavier, but it is far more practical.

     Correct. And that is why many people who track their 911 do not take this option .

    Anyway, it makes it also nearly impossible to do a wheel change yourself, as you need the proper tool

     

    Just one question: You wonna do a wheel CHANGE by yourself? Where do you have the spare wheel in an 911? If you have a slight defect you repair it with the spray and the compressor tool. In all other cases you need to bring the car in. Correct?

    Uncorrect !  I do change my wheels myself when I put my track rims on and when  I put my 'normal' rims back on... Is that  abnormal Smiley


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     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

    Exactly, and I like to rotate my wheels (left side to right side) after each day at the track (mostly right turns).
     


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    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

    this centerlock thing is trouble.  I got the torque wrench, breaker bar, extra set of wheels, but still haven't remove the CL wheels myself yet as I cannot handle them by myself.


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    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe #13;  2011 Panamera 4


    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

    RC:

    This confusion could lead to a serious accident. Porsche should address all their dealers to contact centre locking wheels customers to make clear what the requirements are (street, track, correct position of locking pin). I bet that there are some centre locking wheels customers driving around in their cars without even knowing that there might be something wrong. 

     

    seems it happened (track crash) to someone:   http://www.rennteam.com/forum/thread/20168897/My_2011_GT3_Factory_collection_story_Lots_of_pics/page2.html  (Sep 20, 2010 8:46:59 PM post)

    Porsche should proactively contact all owners as too many people would track their RS's and be at risk.

     


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    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

    I agree with Grant on this issue.

    Its ridiculous engineering that there has be such questions about tightening the wheels on a street car!

    Porsche dealerships arent all created equal when it comes to the quality of people in their service departments either...

     And what happens if you have a flat and have to use a non Porsche trained tech to change a tire and wheel ? I dont see the utility or usefulness in Porsche CL wheels for the real world. Wait till these cars hit the used car market.Smiley

    For now why not reccomend to tighten to 600nm for both street and track?.  And the locking pin should have had visible symbosl to indicate that it is locked correctly.

    CL wheels are half baked marketing gimmicks for a street car.

     

     

     

     


    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

    Sadly, Ferrari is following suit in their 458 Challenger. I agree, it's mostly useless really. I would want the manual tool in my garage though, it must be super cool. The rims look good, but little different to the normal 5 lug setup... It's just exclusivity i guess.


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    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

    I think it's only a matter of time until we will seee more centre locking wheels. Remember when carbon-ceramic-brakes were brand new? Everybody was moaning how difficult it will be to change wheels and not damage those brake discs, I think it's the same with the centre locking wheels. All will get used to them quite quickly, the more cars you will see with them. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

    Rossi:

    I think it's only a matter of time until we will seee more centre locking wheels. Remember when carbon-ceramic-brakes were brand new? Everybody was moaning how difficult it will be to change wheels and not damage those brake discs, I think it's the same with the centre locking wheels. All will get used to them quite quickly, the more cars you will see with them. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

     

    According to our sources at Porsche, the center lock wheel issues are actually a thing of the past, all dealers are informed and mechanics trained to deal with these wheels accordingly. 

    It is also not necessary to buy the torque wrench necessary to change the wheels (removing is possible through the wrench inside the car) because, especially in Europe, every Porsche dealer has one available. This could however be a problem in areas with only few Porsche dealers, like for example in the US where buying such a torque wrench may be a wise thing to do to have it handy when a tire change is necessary.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

     The wheels on my car were tightened up to 600nm last October for a track day. I was advised by my OPC just to leave them set at that value. 

    To me the the other annoying thing is that all four wheels use a right hand thread. Why did they just not use the Carrera GT CL technology ? Most of the OPCs should be familar with that tech, and also carry the tools to remove/ refit wheels. My OPC had to borrow a torque wrench from the BMW dealer next door as theirs did not go upto 600nm.

     


    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

    cdixon:

     The wheels on my car were tightened up to 600nm last October for a track day. I was advised by my OPC just to leave them set at that value. 

    To me the the other annoying thing is that all four wheels use a right hand thread. Why did they just not use the Carrera GT CL technology ? Most of the OPCs should be familar with that tech, and also carry the tools to remove/ refit wheels. My OPC had to borrow a torque wrench from the BMW dealer next door as theirs did not go upto 600nm.

     

     

    According to our information, you need to go back to the initial (street) value after a track day. There seems to be a reason for that but I didn't get the necessary details.

    Maybe somebody knows more about this and has the necessary explanation?


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

    RC:
    cdixon:

     The wheels on my car were tightened up to 600nm last October for a track day. I was advised by my OPC just to leave them set at that value. 

    To me the the other annoying thing is that all four wheels use a right hand thread. Why did they just not use the Carrera GT CL technology ? Most of the OPCs should be familar with that tech, and also carry the tools to remove/ refit wheels. My OPC had to borrow a torque wrench from the BMW dealer next door as theirs did not go upto 600nm.

     

     

    According to our information, you need to go back to the initial (street) value after a track day. There seems to be a reason for that but I didn't get the necessary details.

    Maybe somebody knows more about this and has the necessary explanation?

    I have the same information that the center lock should be loosened back to the initial value (500nm) after a track day. However, I have not received an explanation as to why that should be done. I will ask them the next time I'm at the dealer.


    --

    Matt C
    2009 997 GT3 Mk2  / 1988 911 3.2 Conv.


    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

     My 2¢

    Centerlock wheels are a PIA!

    Give me 5 lugs anytime!

    But with the 997.2 GT3 your stuck


    --
    997 GT3 Guards Red

    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

    Trundle_GT3:

     My 2¢

    Centerlock wheels are a PIA!

    Give me 5 lugs anytime!

    But with the 997.2 GT3 your stuck

     

    Yes and no. If you track race a lot, it could be a PIA, right. For normal street driving, I can only see a problem when you actually have a tire puncture and there is no Porsche dealer near by.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

    RC:
    cdixon:

     The wheels on my car were tightened up to 600nm last October for a track day. I was advised by my OPC just to leave them set at that value. 

    To me the the other annoying thing is that all four wheels use a right hand thread. Why did they just not use the Carrera GT CL technology ? Most of the OPCs should be familar with that tech, and also carry the tools to remove/ refit wheels. My OPC had to borrow a torque wrench from the BMW dealer next door as theirs did not go upto 600nm.

     

     

    According to our information, you need to go back to the initial (street) value after a track day. There seems to be a reason for that but I didn't get the necessary details.

    Maybe somebody knows more about this and has the necessary explanation?

     

    I guess it is down to the possibility of seizure ? 


    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

     Found these pictures on the internet that show a strip down of the CL nuts. and also the correct posistion of the locking pins in the centre.

    Picture on left shows pin locked, picture on right shows pin not correctly locked. 

    GT3CL1-1.jpg

     

    GT3CL4-2.jpg


    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

     Got a letter from my OPC this morning stating that there is a recall on CL wheel nuts and i need to take my car in to have them replaced....

     


    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

     

    A bunch of friends had a letter to...

    (we've been discussing the subject and checking out cars the whole day at the Porsche Francorchamps Days)


    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

    When ordering my Carrera GTS yesterday, I asked the dealer about this issue - i.e. having to retorque the CL wheels before and after track use.  He said he had received a recent technical release from PAG advising that torque should be set at 600Nm for road AND track use.  As a result, they are now torquing all CL wheels to 600Nm before customer delivery.

    Has anyone else heard about this or have any further info on this issue?  Also, have ay reasons been given for the recall referred to above?


    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

    I do seem to recall that the centerlock nuts for the current rims have changed, to an extent that they even feature a different part number. It might have to do with that fact that some people had issues with these nuts getting loose under certain circumstances.


    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

     Cosmetically the new CL nuts do not have the 500nm marking on them. I also think they maybe stronger ?

    The OPC also want my car in for a week as there is also concern about the red stub nuts on the brake disk bells working loose and causing possible damage to the PCCB brake disks . This is possibly caused by the CL nut works loose !!!

    Lastly i think a new insert has to go in the drivers manual to reflect the torque change from 500nm to 600nm.

    They phoned me yesterday to ask what colour my CL nuts are as they need to order in the new replacements.

     

     


    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

    According to the german TI (technical information), the torque is 600 Nm. 

    Also very important to mention: Under no circumstances should one use the Carrera GT tool for tightening the central lock wheels on 997 models. A piece can be broken (very likely) and this damage usually happens without any visual trace. Meaning: An accident is very likely afterwards. Caution.

    Repair shops have been advised to mark their Carrera GT equipment accordingly, so there can't be any confusion.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

    Ferdie:

    I do seem to recall that the centerlock nuts for the current rims have changed, to an extent that they even feature a different part number. It might have to do with that fact that some people had issues with these nuts getting loose under certain circumstances.


    Correct Smiley Actually owners with newer cars just need to adjust to 600 Nm (o.k. for both road and track), those with early production cars will see a replacement of parts.

    Goes for GT3, GT3 RS and Turbo S

     


    --

    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

    The TI I have actually notes that owners of older cars should adjust to 600 Nm too. No word about new parts...yet but apparently the parts number changed indeed.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: re Centre Locking Wheels on the track - 560Nm not 500Nm

    This is good news, especially for owners (or would-be owners) of newer cars - at least it removes the hassle of having the wheelnuts retorqued at an OPC before and after every track outing.

    You can add the GTS to the list of cars affected.


     
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