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    UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    Hi guys

    I recently organzied a Porsche Club drive around the Reading area:

    http://www.rennteam.com/forum/thread/20104209/Porsche_Club_GB_997_register_run_today_PICS/index.html

    This seemed to be VERY well received by all (even the wives!) so I thought I'd offer to repeat the trip for the Rennteam crew.

    Any Rennteamer with a supercar is welcome but I may have to cap the numbers due to restaurant capacity.  If you are interested then please indicate on this thread below.  I will need to know:

    1) Preference of dates in July/Aug (and Sat vs Sun preference)

    2) If you will be +1 (for lunch purposes)

    3) Your chosen car for the event

    If we get more Porsches than other marques then I may be able to request again the use of OPC Reading as the starting point.

    Cheers,

    -Alex


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    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    The plan for the day would be the following:

     

    10:00am         

    Arrive at OPC Reading (M4 Jn12)

    The Porsche Center will provide us with tea/coffee before we start our journey.

    10:30am

    Part I Drive (approx 71 miles and 2hrs)

    12:30pm

    Lunch

    The Leatherne Bottel restaurant in Goring

    3:00pm

    Part II Drive (approx 53 miles and 1hr 30 mins)

    4:30pm

    Finish point

    The George and the Dragon in Wargrave

     

    I've managed to get some really fun roads in the planned routes.

    Lunch venue pics from the Leatherne Bottel pics in Goring:









    Final destination pics from the St. George & Dragon pub in Wargrave:



    Pic from one of the morning route roads:



    Other useful information:

    • Please note the smart-casual dress code for lunch (no jeans and t-shirts)
    • If you have walkie-talkies then please bring these too
    • Map printouts will be supplied on the day.  If you really want a copy before the day though PM me and I can send you the latest GoogleMaps routes.
    • I would say you need at least 3/4 tank of fuel to start the drive.

     

     


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    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    @Alex_997TT: I'd like to come

    Dates: prefer Sat over Sun and, so far, I have no plans for:

    July: 25&26
    Aug: 1&2, 8&9, 15&16, 22&23

    +1 (for lunch)

    997.1 C2S

     


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    Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    Good stuff Easy - I will start compiling a spreadsheet of everyone's prefered dates


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    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    I'd love to as well but alas I don't think a Ford Ka (my temporary steed) counts as a supercar, even enthusiastically piloted


    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    I think it should be 'sportscars' and not 'supercars'. Otherwise, in its proper sense, that would just be cars like a Zonda, Carrera GT, Enzo, Veyron etc


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    Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    easy_rider911:

    I think it should be 'sportscars' and not 'supercars'. Otherwise, in its proper sense, that would just be cars like a Zonda, Carrera GT, Enzo, Veyron etc

    Those you listed Easy I would term as 'hyper-cars' not supercars.  Normally a supercar is a usually anything between a Porsche 911 up to a Ferrari Scuderia.

    In order to keep pace with my routes you would need a car that does at least 0-60 in under 5.5s and is very nimble around corners.  Otherwise we will need to keep going back and look for people!

    My Audi S3 for example has 250 bhp and could qualify for the 0-60 time but would never keep up around the bends so would be lost after the first 20 mins or so.  So a  Boxster S driven well could just about keep pace with me going at a fair rate in the lead. Keeping all together is important as normally the leader would be the only person knowing the route.

    ***Note that this is not racing and not doing huge top speeds, just a 'spirited' drive down some empty and open back roads - safety is paramount***  The last run with the 997 register with me leading was pretty tame compared to normal pace we do on club runs.


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    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    Alex and Easy, would love to join provided you accept overseas Rennteamers...hopefully I let you know as soon as you'll have finalized the schedule.

    BTW, which category does my car fall into?

    (pixz to follow)


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    ------- MY07 997.1 GT3 White, CS, PCCB, Full Leather/Alcantara in Black

    ------- MY07 997C2S --GONE


    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    Please indicate category for the following P-car Smiley

     

    1244580181566100_0028.JPG

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    ------- MY07 997.1 GT3 White, CS, PCCB, Full Leather/Alcantara in Black

    ------- MY07 997C2S --GONE


    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    Another pixz that might set the lowest upper limit of the category bracket Smiley100_0031.JPG


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    ------- MY07 997.1 GT3 White, CS, PCCB, Full Leather/Alcantara in Black

    ------- MY07 997C2S --GONE


    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    Georges I would love to have you join us. Your car would easily keep pace and I am sure you would actually be right up behind me trying to make me go faster! The only issue you may have is overtaking slow traffic in that it will be hard to see down the road unless you have a passenger lookout..  We had a similar issue with our RHD cars when we did the Swiss trip last year.
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    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    By the way - Gary stayed at a nice hotel the night before the last run so as not to have a huge journey first thing in the morning:

    http://www.millenniumhotels.co.uk/copthornereading/index.html

    He said it was very good value for money!


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    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    Alex_997TT:
    easy_rider911:

    I think it should be 'sportscars' and not 'supercars'. Otherwise, in its proper sense, that would just be cars like a Zonda, Carrera GT, Enzo, Veyron etc

    Those you listed Easy I would term as 'hyper-cars' not supercars.  Normally a supercar is a usually anything between a Porsche 911 up to a Ferrari Scuderia.
     


    I fully respect your viewpoint but I can't say I share it.

    The fact is that there is no precise definition as to what the terms 'sportscar' and 'supercar' mean. Everyone has their own subjective views on this.

    You've adopted certain performance-based criteria to establish certain boundaries. I can understand your rationale for doing this but I also think that the criteria you have chosen are to a certain extent arbitrary.

    Moreover, I am not saying this is necessarily the case in your individual case, however - trying to be objective here - there can be a tendency (subconsciously even) for people more generally to pick the criteria that yields a desired result (e.g. 0-62mph in 5.5 secs). This neatly separates Boxster/Cayman performance from 911 performance.

    IMHO there are many factors (not just performance based) that determine whether a car falls into the 'sportscar' or 'supercar' categories. Examples might be: performance, price, exclusivity, production numbers, practicality, design, desirability, general 'outrageousness' etc etc.

    So, I come at this question from a viewpoint that places a much higher threshold to satisfy in order to qualify for 'supercar' status.

    As for the term 'hypercar', with all due respect, I really think this term is wholly inappropriate for any road-going production car (even a Veyron which excels at bhp and top speed only).

    So, I believe that all Boxsters, Caymans and 911s fall into the 'sportscar' category. By contrast, I think the 959 and CGT genuinely fall into the 'supercar' category.

    Equally, IMHO Ferrari F430s, Lamborghini Gallardos & Murcielagos are also 'sportscars'.

    If I had to sum up my approach to what constitutes a 'supercar', it would be this: you know it when you see it Smiley

    But, like I said, there are no right or wrong answers - just differing viewpoints Smiley

    And, in any case, this is just an interesting distraction from the main aim of your thread which is to gather fellow enthusiasts together for a good day out Smiley
     

    Alex_997TT:


    In order to keep pace with my routes you would need a car that does at least 0-60 in under 5.5s and is very nimble around corners.  Otherwise we will need to keep going back and look for people!

    My Audi S3 .... could qualify for the 0-60 time but would never keep up around the bends so would be lost after the first 20 mins or so.  So a  Boxster S driven well could just about keep pace with me going at a fair rate in the lead.       [...]

    ***Note that this is not racing and not doing huge top speeds, just a 'spirited' drive down some empty and open back roads - safety is paramount***  The last run with the 997 register with me leading was pretty tame compared to normal pace we do on club runs.
     


     I fully appreciate that this isn't racing or doing huge top speeds, but it does seem a little hard to see how an Audi S3 would never keep up around the bends or a Boxster S would just about keep pace if the legal speed limits are being respected on public roads Smiley 
     

    Alex_997TT:


    ... normally the leader would be the only person knowing the route...


    Just wondering - I thought you intend to follow a certain route so that people can programme it into their satnavs Smiley

    Cheers,
    Easy Smiley


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    Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    Easy

    A "sports-car" includes cars like an Audi S3, Golf GTi or a sporty Renault!  If you want to organize yourself a cruise with these types of cars then you are welcome to do so. 

    However, for the event I have in mind you should have either a Porsche/Aston/Ferrari/Lambo or some other exotic marque.

    These all meet the criteria I laid out above.  They all have equally good brakes if we meet a tractor down a back-road (so won't plough into the back of the car in front) and the drivers will be well within themselves to keep up.  I am sure I could indeed keep up in my Audi S3 but I'd have to trash it to do so and take more risks.  A 997 is so much more capable and therefore much safer when doing spirited driving.

    I have been on many of such events where 'sports-car' drivers with no Sat Navs have effectively ruined the day for everyone by frustratingly holding people up, falling way behind the group and getting lost.  For the drive I did the 997 register last weekend even though I gave everyone the route ahead of time, I was the ONLY person who actually put it (successfully) into their Sat Nav.  Most people like just following on these events, especially when in car Sat Nav routes can vary in their calculations.

    On pretty much all of the Porsche Club events I have been on, I have had a Carrera right up my backside throughout most of the routes.  What it loses out in straight line power to my car it makes up for in cornering speed given it's 150kg lighter than me.  I would have lost my bumper many many times over if the car behind didn't have comparable brakes to mine!

    Also throughout the run we will certainly meet slow traffic where the whole convoy will need to over-take.  I can over-take traffic very quickly and safely in my car, however for lower powered cars this time increases and therefore so does the risk.  Holding up a Scuderia right behind you when others have already overtaken slow traffic can pressure you into taking more risks than you normally would.   I have witnessed some close calls before just because of this. 

    So I think for such runs we all need to have similarly capable cars.  It's just safer that way.

    Conversely if you drive a Scuderia and choose to sit behind 30mph traffic thereby holding up everyone else behind you when there is opportunity to over-take then that is of course your prerogative.  However, we didn't have anyone like this on our last (very enjoyable) UK Rennteam meet and I am guessing that all those re-attending this time will very much want a 'spirited' drive again...

    PS: If you took myself and 9 other Porsche 997 drivers, I would certainly be the most cautious driver between them - despite all the driver training I have had now including the Police driver training I had a few weeks back where the instructor was continuously shouting at me to go "faster" on the public roads we were on!  Also, my wife normally sleeps or reads on the runs we do so I certainly can't go too fast without getting an ear full!  As I say, most the wives enjoyed last weekend's run so obviously nothing too violent!

    ----------------------------------------------------

    With regards to sports- super- and hyper- car categories I am just following the TopGear methodology here.  Supercars are about driving perfection obtainable by normal drivers, hypercars I would say are more about price (over £200k) power figures (over 600bhp) and wow-factor, with only excellent/professional drivers being able to handle them properly on their limits.


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    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    Alex_997TT:


    However, for the event I have in mind you should have either a Porsche/Aston/Ferrari/Lambo or some other exotic marque
    .

     

    Alex, it looks like you've misunderstood my intention. I'm not suggesting that you extend eligibility beyond the marques that you've chosen: Porsche, Aston Martin, Ferrari, Lamborghini or equivalent exotic marques.

    I was discussing the separate issue of merely the terms you used for car categories (purely as a fellow car enthusiast) - not the issue of whom you wish or don't wish to invite to your gathering.
     

    Alex_997TT:


    A "sports-car" includes cars like an Audi S3, Golf GTi or a sporty Renault!  If you want to organize yourself a cruise with these types of cars then you are welcome to do so. 
     

     

    Not IMO. Those cars are 'hot hatchbacks' not sportscars IMO. So the issue of inviting people who drive those cars isn't relevant IMO.

    Alex, like I said before, what people understand by 'sportscars' and 'supercars' is subjective so there are no precise definitions and no right/wrong answers. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that Smiley

    But thanks for elaborating on your point of view Alex Smiley It's always interesting to hear other people's viewpoints. But, it is just your point of view - not an objective fact - that you're expressing.
     

    Alex_997TT:


    For the drive I did the 997 register last weekend even though I gave everyone the route ahead of time, I was the ONLY person who actually put it (successfully) into their Sat Nav. 
     

     

    We all appreciate how much difficulty people have with using the PCM 2.0 on 997.1 cars. Partly, it's because it's not as easy to use as it should be but it's also because many people just aren't tech savvy and/or simply haven't invested the time to learn how to use it properly Smiley

     


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    Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    Blimey,

    Lighten up, guys. It's just a bit of fun!  

     

    Regards.


    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    Thanks Easy for your clarification on your previous post.  A couple of people PM'ed me to ask whether this cruise was suddenly going to include cars like the Mazda MX5 (the best selling 'sports car' of all time I do believe!).  As a result I just wanted to be crystal clear on the target audience for this event.

    I do not categorize a supercar as 0-60 at 5.5s and under.  And yes I agree it is very subjective.  That was just an indication of the straight line speed that would be needed for the cruise. 

    For the record, the new facelift Carreras with their PCM 3.0 can only programme 5 locations into each tour.  As both morning and afternoon routes have about 8 (which fits with the PCM 2.0) this would mean multiple tours for just one session.  So you can imagine why most didn't bother...


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    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    Lancerlot:

    Blimey,

    Lighten up, guys. It's just a bit of fun!  

     

    Regards.

    Ah the stresses of being the organizer! I now can begin to empathize with Gary's plight over years.  I am going grey just after 1 event!

    It would be great to have you along Clive in your Scud if you have some free time in July/August!  Always a pleasure...


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    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    Alex, relax, this is supposed to be fun - not at all stressful for you  We're just chatting - it shouldn't make your hair go grey

    Without doubt, everyone here fully appreciates the time and effort you are putting into this to make this gathering a successful event

    Dealing with this briefly, I am sure you will also appreciate that, as a Moderator, I have a responsibility to RT to help encourage an atmosphere where Rennteamers don't feel excluded  That's why I sought your clarification as to the nature of your invitation.

    (It's interesting that people were very quick off the mark to express their concern to you that someone with a Mazda MX5 might conceivably want to join you ) Still, one obviously accepts that people are naturally entitled to their preferences as to who they mix with socially - even within a community like Rennteam. 

    Incidentally, regarding the Mazda MX5, I think there are at least 2 types of 'sportscar': 'exotic sportscars' (which is how I would describe your intended audience) and 'more affordable sportscars' (like a Honda S2000, Mazda MX5 or a Nissan 350Z)... still, you've made your intentions about the event clear - and actually it turns out we have been using different words to describe the same thing - so the rest of the discussion is actually just about semantics

    BTW, I think the Tour Planning on the PCM 2.0 is hopeless. It's much simpler to store waypoints in the Destination Memory. It can hold 50 places (if I recall correctly) and enables one to specify precise waypoints to literally 'force' the satnav to adopt a certain route. That's how I do it anyway...

    Thanks again for all your efforts

    Cheers,
    Easy

     


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    Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    Lancerlot:

    Blimey,

    Lighten up, guys. It's just a bit of fun!  

     

    Regards.


    Exactly Smiley


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    Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    should be able to make that

    cant make  24-26th July for Silverstone Classic! but other than that im easy!

    Sunday would be best for me but if it ends up as a Sat then no probs

    Car will be  997.2 C2s

    oh forgot 

    +1 (for now)

     

     


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    997.2 C2S Guards Red


    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    Hello

    I'm a "Newbie". Just got my first ever Porsche (997.2 C2S manual) and am thrilled with it.

    Be fun to take it on a spirited drive along some windy roads. I can do Aug 9 or 16..


    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    easy_rider911:

    BTW, I think the Tour Planning on the PCM 2.0 is hopeless. It's much simpler to store waypoints in the Destination Memory. It can hold 50 places (if I recall correctly) and enables one to specify precise waypoints to literally 'force' the satnav to adopt a certain route. That's how I do it anyway.. 

    My morning route is spot on for the PCM 2.0 Tour Planning.  My afternoon route less so.  We actually lost 2 guys at the end of the afternoon run.  They had to wait for us for 15 mins in Henley whilst we did a final forest section.   I will work on the afternoon route more to try to get it better for the next run.


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    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    Johnmonkey:

    should be able to make that

    cant make  24-26th July for Silverstone Classic! but other than that im easy!

    Sunday would be best for me but if it ends up as a Sat then no probs

    Car will be  997.2 C2s

    oh forgot 

    +1 (for now)

    Excellent John.  Looks like an early weekend in Aug may be best thus far

     


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    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    rocky:

    Hello

    I'm a "Newbie". Just got my first ever Porsche (997.2 C2S manual) and am thrilled with it.

    Be fun to take it on a spirited drive along some windy roads. I can do Aug 9 or 16..

    Welcome to Rennteam!  We would be happy for you to join us. 

    Just let me know if you would be +1. 

    Aug should give you a little time in the meantime to get use to the unique driving characteristics of the Porsche 911. Slow in - bloody fast out!


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    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    Indeed!

    +1


    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

     Great thread, very entertaining. Too bad no bridge yet, sounds like an awesome plan, my kind of ride and you are recruiting new rennteamers too. Should be a monthly thing in your limited nice season.

    Don't vanquish owners ever drive? Oh and bring some nice cameras. Relax and enjoy your great cars and countryside.Smiley


    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    Have to say Alex that I was initially up for it, based on the thread title, but reading your plan it seemed you had in mind a more elite group rather than remaining accommodating to the performance differences of the range of Rennteam owned cars. Seemed like the objective was more about showing off than being sociable. So that put me off a bit.

    I've been on a fair few of these runs now, and in my opinion on a drive like this you're not just battling HP and handling differences when trying to keep the group together -

    Lights, roundabouts, junctions all can potentially put big gaps and slow traffic between cars in the group.

    Some people may know the roads better than others, so be more confident of speed and overtake zones.

    The more cars you have, the harder it is to get them all past a slow vehicle together. An overtake zone can only take so many passes before it ends or there is an oncoming car. The last car to chance it is put under pressure to quickly trade off the safety of the move with the stigma of being left behind or fear of getting lost.

    In my opinion, it would work best to split the group into sections of three or maybe four cars, each with a lead that knows the route. They can then watch out for each other, have fun with similar HP, and not feel they are being left behind, and are less likely to take risks. That way the run is more relaxed and more inclusive.

     


    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    wtsnet:


    Have to say Alex that I was initially up for it, based on the thread title, but reading your plan it seemed you had in mind a more elite group rather than remaining accommodating to the performance differences of the range of Rennteam owned cars. Seemed like the objective was more about showing off than being sociable. So that put me off a bit.

     

    This was exactly the reaction I was fearing might result Smiley

    I really do appreciate the time and effort that goes into organising these events and if people organise their own events privately or they are organised on other car forums then I wouldn't express any view about how selectively people were being invited since that wouldn't be any of my business.

    However, if an open invitation is made on the public boards on Rennteam - which is a 'Sports Car Community' (as stated on our main entry page) - then IMHO it should be extended to all Rennteam members (subject to availability only) and not just to 'Rennteamers with supercars'. If that is unacceptable, then the event shouldn't be organised using an open invitation on the public boards. Simple as that.

    Picking and choosing people on Rennteam based on the car they drive is cliquey but, more significantly for RT, it's divisive because, quite understandably, it makes some Rennteamers feel excluded. We are one community where everyone is respected and should feel equally welcome and valued.

    In my case, I enjoy meeting Rennteamers simply because we share a common passion for cars. For me, it has nothing to do with how flashy the cars might be or how much money people may have.

    I really take no pleasure in writing what I have written above but, as a Moderator, I have a responsibility to help encourage an atmosphere where no Rennteamers feel unwanted or excluded.


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    Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: UK Rennteamers meet and drive? Thread Closed

    easy_rider911:
    This was exactly the reaction I was fearing might result Smiley

    I'd like to add that I don't really believe that Alex was trying to be elitist, but the way the first post was phrased did put me off a bit. Organising stuff is tough, and it should be welcomed that someone is willing to take a lead. Thanks Alex! Smiley


     


     
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