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    Re: Frankfurt Show

    reginos:

    The new RSR will dominate next season when it will be fully honed and the motorsport department will have its hands free from the P1 commitment.

    Reginos - You and I see eye to eye on most things, but this is one where we differ in opinion. The RSR will not dominate next season because if by some miracle the car becomes really competitive , BOP will make sure that it does not dominate.  This is exactly the issue that I have with GTE.Smiley


    Re: Frankfurt Show

    Spyderidol and Reginos, a few additional thoughts:

    1. WEC and ACO clearly have lost the plot, hence Porsche's withdrawal from LMP1. As fascinating as the technology (and racing action) may be, which is at least on a par with F1, the marketing of the racing series (except for LM) has been underwhelming to say the least.

    2. Porsche management decided to align their motorsports activities with the brand road car product strategy going forward. With Mission E and other EVs in the pipeline for launch starting in 2019, entering Formula E at that time is designed to sharpen their profile in this space.

    3. Potentially entering F1 in 2021 as engine supplier with advanced turbo and hybrid tech would serve a similar purpose.

    4. Focusing on GT car racing in general, and GTE in particular, is meant to protect their 911 based sports car image, despite the fact that Porsche derives at least 75% of its sales from non-sports cars.

    5. Regarding the RSR, I would guess that given the increased focus on GT racing, that Walliser will be under tremendous pressure to make this 911 silhouette platform competitive based on the current configuration, or else...


    Re: Frankfurt Show

    Spyderidol:
    reginos:

    The new RSR will dominate next season when it will be fully honed and the motorsport department will have its hands free from the P1 commitment.

    Reginos - You and I see eye to eye on most things, but this is one where we differ in opinion. The RSR will not dominate next season because if by some miracle the car becomes really competitive , BOP will make sure that it does not dominate.  This is exactly the issue that I have with GTE.Smiley

    Dominate might be an exaggeration but this car could win the possible titles. What do you think?


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Frankfurt Show

    olli:

    Spyderidol and Reginos, a few additional thoughts:

    1. WEC and ACO clearly have lost the plot, hence Porsche's withdrawal from LMP1. As fascinating as the technology (and racing action) may be, which is at least on a par with F1, the marketing of the racing series (except for LM) has been underwhelming to say the least.

    1.      Few have been more critical of the ACO than I . All this was foreseeable given their penchant for constant rule changes and adjustments coupled with an almost quixotic pursuit for cost control. They make the rules (badly) and then spend the next few years making adjustments often based on unnecessarily draconian safety standards or political pressures to reduce costs from some (read French) manufacturers with an obscure promise that if the costs are reduced enough to levels that would barely afford a competitive ride in some developing world GT series (I’m exaggerating to illustrate a point), they will join the series. I am always flummoxed that so much time and energy is wasted on discussing the cost side of the budget, and never any real effort or discussion surrounding the revenue side. Unfortunately I predict this madness will continue (and it is madness by definition: They have done this over and over again, and always expect a different result)

    Porsche leaving the series however, has really put it into a tail spin.

    I understand why they are leaving. I don’t think it was done in a proper fashion. It is never good to burn bridges, and Porsche may have done that by the way that they are managing their exit. I hope not.

    2. Porsche management decided to align their motorsports activities with the brand road car product strategy going forward. With Mission E and other EVs in the pipeline for launch starting in 2019, entering Formula E at that time is designed to sharpen their profile in this space.

    Do you think FE is at a level that will provide sharpness to anything? It most certainly is not now, and there had better be some very big advancements (and far less spec parts) if it will do what is expected.

    3. Potentially entering F1 in 2021 as engine supplier with advanced turbo and hybrid tech would serve a similar purpose.

    ....If successful.

    4. Focusing on GT car racing in general, and GTE in particular, is meant to protect their 911 based sports car image, despite the fact that Porsche derives at least 75% of its sales from non-sports cars.

    Maybe they could enter truck racing?

    5. Regarding the RSR, I would guess that given the increased focus on GT racing, that Walliser will be under tremendous pressure to make this 911 silhouette platform competitive based on the current configuration, or else...

    Yes, I would not like to be in his shoes.

     


    Re: Frankfurt Show

    Now if this is true, then it would shed a different light on things:

    http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/porsche-poised-red-bull-buyout

    Perhaps we need a new thread just for this.


    Re: Frankfurt Show

    Interesting!


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: Frankfurt Show

    A few pictures from Frankfurt. 

    The princess:

    Porsche 991.2 GT3 with Touring Package

    The daddy:

    Porsche 991.2 GT2 RS Yellow

    The people mover:

    Porsche Cayenne Turbo


    --

    997 GT3 - 550M - 355 GTS F1 - Prius - Audi S5 Sportback


    Re: Frankfurt Show

    GT2 RS looks quite good in yellow... 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Frankfurt Show

    RC:

    GT2 RS looks quite good in yellow... 

    Because of black rims smiley


    --


    Re: Frankfurt Show

    Surprised how many no-show companies there are at Frankfurt... the industry is clearly counting pennies.  


    --

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: Frankfurt Show

    zeshark : Thanks for the pics     Any photo of the diffusor on the GT3 T ?

    The yellow RS looks good on this photo .  Black rims are a must to make it less fussy .


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: Frankfurt Show

    4trac:

    Surprised how many no-show companies there are at Frankfurt... the industry is clearly counting pennies.  

    Between a second european show and attending either

    - boutique events such as Villa d'Este or Pebble Beach for premium brands, which are incomparably cheaper

    - a 2nd or 3rd tier auto show in a 10m people city in China for mainstream brands

    ... the choice is apparently not that difficult to make. So yes, the industry is counting its millions.


    --

    997 GT3 - 550M - 355 GTS F1 - Prius - Audi S5 Sportback


    Re: Frankfurt Show

    Gnil:

    zeshark : Thanks for the pics     Any photo of the diffusor on the GT3 T ?

    The yellow RS looks good on this photo .  Black rims are a must to make it less fussy .

    Most welcome ! Not sure what you mean by diffuser on the GT3 Touring Package ? 


    --

    997 GT3 - 550M - 355 GTS F1 - Prius - Audi S5 Sportback


    Re: Frankfurt Show

    zeshark:

    Most welcome ! Not sure what you mean by diffuser on the GT3 Touring Package ? 

    The back diffusor under the engine . It is supposed to be slightly different then the one on the regular GT3 or on the R 

     


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: Frankfurt Show

    Ah no sorry, did not think about looking underneath.


    --

    997 GT3 - 550M - 355 GTS F1 - Prius - Audi S5 Sportback


    Re: Frankfurt Show

    Lol, that Cayenne looks MASSIVE! The rear is such a big vertical piece of real estate, and by adding the reflector strip and other horizontal design curves, they are stressing the width of the car. The result; one big ugly huge lump of car.

    I understand that a car manufacturer needs to sell cars to be profitable, but jeez, I could never love the cayenne like I love the 911... whát an uninspired piece of soccer mommy greyness, especially from this angle.
     


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: Frankfurt Show

    SportCarGroup:
    RC:

    GT2 RS looks quite good in yellow... 

    Because of black rims smiley

    Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Frankfurt Show

    ...and the fact that you can't see the bonnet or roof..


    --

    2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1


    Re: Frankfurt Show

    DaveGordon:

    ...and the fact that you can't see the bonnet or roof..

    Bingo! Now that makes this particular GT2RS look good. Nice catch kiss


    --


    Re: Frankfurt Show

    Mate, the choice is not that difficult. 2nd and 3rd tier 10m people cities in china follow what is led in the West, not the other way around. Frankfurt trumps all of these and look how the main German brands treat it,


    Re: Frankfurt Show

    I don't follow your logic, neither how you explain the no shows. Mainstream volume brands are deserting Frankfurt just like they deserted Paris, so are some premium brands like Aston who was "in town" with a side event but not present at the show.

    And if you look at what actually sells in China, no model in the top 15 sells in Europe. They are all China-specific. For a Nissan, Peugeot/DS, FCA, Volvo and the other no-shows, it is the second european autoshow that is simply not worth it. 

    The reason why BMW & Mercedes maintain their investment in their Frankfurt booth is quite obvious, but Volkswagen Group brans were all packed in hall 3 this year, and many other brands do not carry as much surface as they do in Geneva.

    So yes, mate, for mainstream brands, shifting investments where market growth actually is located is a real question and clear decisions have been made.


    --

    997 GT3 - 550M - 355 GTS F1 - 225xe - Audi RS6 Performance


     
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