Crown

Board: Porsche Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    From Edmunds.com (web page)

    Quote:
    STUTTGART, Germany - A visit to the Porsche factory by German chancellor Gerhard Schroeder this week could give the company an ideal opportunity to launch its fifth model, believed to be a four-door super-sedan called Panamera.

    Porsche CEO Wendelin Wiedeking could bring forward the announcement to this week, according to the German Frankfurter Allgemeine newspaper - he had been expected to wait until the Frankfurt Motor Show in September to disclose details of the car. However, ongoing talks with Porsche trade unions about job security could quash the early announcement plan.

    The emerging super-sedan sector combines virtues of a traditional sedan with a coupe. Mercedes-Benz's CLS model, a low-roof derivative of the company's E-Class, kick-started the sector. Volkswagen is believed to be looking at a similar car, based on the Passat, and VW could hold the key to the Porsche Panamera.

    Porsche sources suggest the car will be a second collaborative venture with Volkswagen. The Cayenne shares its platform and many mechanical parts with VW's Touareg; the Panamera - Porsche registered the name earlier this year - might in a similar way use the VW Phaeton luxury sedan platform, a move that would cut development costs significantly. The new model will join the Cayenne, 911, Boxster and Cayman ranges in the Porsche portfolio.

    What this means to you: The super-sedan sector is another kind of crossover - and judging by the positive response to the Mercedes CLS, it's a good idea. Porsche's Midas touch should mean it's on to another winner.





    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    Good find Gary, thanks

    However the news are quite disturbing for me, I new it was going to happen but... a Porsche Sedan ... second collaborative venture with Volkswagen

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    Yes, particularly the second collaborative venture with Volkswagen. You would think they had learned their lesson with the Cayenne. But it's not unexpected really. Porsche and VW have a long history of collaboration and there are still many stockholder and management connections between the two companies. And really, the Cayenne collaboration went pretty well up to a point. With Porsche doing the bulk of the design and engineering, the vehicle is great in that regard. There is no great problem with the VW assembly either. The problems seem to be with quality control of the third party suppliers, which I assume VW is controlling (or maybe not controlling ). I wonder if Porsche may try to solve the problem by turning this product over to a third party assembler, like BMW does with the X-3.

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    Good points Gary.

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    If they did use the Phaeton's chassis as a base for the car it would be the same chassis as the Bentley GT and now the new GT based 4 door.

    Good chassis, and with a 500bhp V8 turbo from the Cayenne probably not a bad car. AS LONG AS IT IS EASY ON THE EYES!!!

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    Good find Gary thanks!
    didn't know that the collaboration Porsche/ VW went pair shaped along the line.
    Thought it was doint well.
    Judging by the number of Cayennes I've seen for the past two weeks in Houston at least.
    It's just amazing!
    Far more than X5, ML and RR seriously!
    A majority of V6 and S and a few Turbo, very nice!
    Now about the Panamera, this is great news! Should be an awesome car!
    And also judging by the number of CLS I saw in Houston, should be a garrantied success.
    Should try to convert the old man to that from the S600.
    Will be hard though, not exactly the same kind of car but will try.

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    The Phaeton is a VERY heavy car - I think close to 5,000 lbs. Even with some expensive lightweight components, this is totally unsuitable for an agile or nimble coupe/sedan

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    Thanks Gary .

    I still don't fully understand this new segment. i.e. where does CLS fall between E and S? How many different 4-door sedan a company needs? May be I'm missing something .

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    lol this post is full of moderators i'll add some flavour to the mix :P

    Ron: like i said in a previous post, when manufacters see sales starting to slow down - they create a "new market" segment by just add/removing of doors....

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    If Porsche is to use an existing chassis to save developement costs, why not the A8? It is super strong and very light in terms weight. It seems that would be the better platform to build from.

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    Quote:
    Stephen said:
    If Porsche is to use an existing chassis to save developement costs, why not the A8? It is super strong and very light in terms weight. It seems that would be the better platform to build from.



    Well, one of our sources saw an A8 with PCCB in Weissach but apparently Porsche developped the new ceramic brake for Audi and this wasn't a Panamera protoype like we thought in the past. I think that Porsche has to be careful regarding the weight. Porsche will use the new direct fuel injection V8 engines in the Panamera, this is for sure. But these engines can't do miracles regarding fuel consumption. The Panamera is rumoured to have a 2000 kg maximum weight figure in the specs but I'm not sure Porsche will be able to achieve it.
    Earlier rumours indicated something around 1850 kg.

    Porsche urgently needs the Panamera because if fuel prices are rising higher and higher over the next few years, the Cayenne will suffer a lot from that. This is why there have been rumours of a Cayenne hybrid and we heard that a Porsche/VW prototype should be presented to the public sooner or later, maybe even at the IAA in Frankfurt.

    However: I still think that a Cayenne Diesel would be the better and cheaper choice. Dr. Wiedeking claimed in a recent interview that people are buying Diesel cars only because Diesel is so cheap over here in Europe compared to fuel.
    He seems to forget that a 314 HP Mercedes V8 Twin Turbodiesel with a better performance than a Cayenne S can drive around with 9 litres of Diesel per 100 km only. Even if the driver drives at peak performance, consumption shouldn't exceed 13-14 litres of Diesel per 100 km.
    My Cayenne Turbo eats up to 44 litres of 98 octane fuel when driving at full power.

    If the Panamera will be based on the super heavy weight VW Phaeton, this would be a huge mistake. People don't care too much about weight on the Cayenne but a sports limousine at 2.5 tons? I don't think so.

    And I'm also a little bit worried regarding the Panamera: look at the new Mercedes CLS and the new upcoming S class.
    Up to 614 HP and more, how can Porsche cope with that? 700 HP? I also don't see that the most important Porsche market, the US, really wants or needs a sports sedan.
    Whoever wants to move the family, buys the Cayenne, even if it eats a little bit more fuel. And whoever wants a sports car, buys the 911. Especially since the 911 can be a perfect daily driver.

    I don't know if the Panamera was the right decision. I know only one thing for sure: in my opinion, Porsche produces too many cars right now, they almost entered mass production.
    This can be good for quality and profit but this also can substantially decrease resale value (and it already did with the 996 and 986 for example) and exclusivity.

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    Quote:
    I don't know if the Panamera was the right decision. I know only one thing for sure: in my opinion, Porsche produces too many cars right now, they almost entered mass production.



    I'm not sure if this is worth posting, but I sometimes worry about Porsche

    I don't really know what to think sometimes. For instance; I'm still quite young, only the other week I was walking home and spotted a 997 on the road, and gave the driver an approving thumbs up (Seeing a 911 is still quite a special experience for me). After such occassions, I feel like I have faith in the future of Porsche.

    However, the next minute I'm hearing things like this, and other news, and then I'm not really too sure anymore. I think I may have to agree with you RC

    Does anybody else feel as though their attitude changes on quite a regular basis?

    -Luke

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    People are always telling me Porsche is so "independent" but my doubts continue to grow. I mean, Ferdinand founded Volkswagen, didnt he? And the Cayenne was co-developed and uses a VW sourced V6 in one of its models, and now this.

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    Panamera what a saga .

    Not to discredit Porsche but for sure they're entering the mass producing market and for a fact Panamera doesn't make any sense to me either .

    Porsche has always been knows (don't know about the future) for their Sports Cars and in particular the legendary 911. Why would they try to imitate MB and BMW or even AUDI for sedan segement is beyond my comprehension.

    By the time they'll introduce the new car (Panamera) the market will be floded with "Supposedly" Sports sedans by MB, BMW, AUDI, and VW, which their Pheaton seems to be a big time failure at least in the U.S..

    Porsche should have invested in a 2+2 mid engine with the V8, IMO would have been more successful.

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    Wiedeking (i think) said it best: "In the future, Porsche will be known for sporty cars", not for sportscars..
    The man saved Porsche, but at the same time he might kill it

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    At least the stock market likes it...from Reuters:

    "11:02 23Jun2005 RTRS-STOCKS NEWS EUROPE-Porsche races to record on 4th model hopes

    FRANKFURT - Porsche shares <PSHG_p.DE> race to a record high of 639 euros, boosted by a German newspaper report that the luxury carmaker will build its fourth model line in Leipzig.
    "The prospect of a fourth line is helping the stock," says analyst Michael Punzet at LRP. Porsche now makes the Boxster roadster, the Cayenne offroader and the 911 premium sports car.
    UBS increases its share price target to 650 euros from 600. It says recent sales of the 911 and Boxster have been strong and expects more positive news over the next 3-6 months, keeping a "neutral" share rating.
    A trader says the market also welcomes news the firm is close to a deal with staff to secure German jobs in return for working hour concessions.
    By 0900 GMT the shares gain 1.1 percent to 633.8 euros, outperforming other German carmakers."

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    Good points, the panamera better be light and extremely cool and exotic looking to stand out from the crowd. And this rumor of collaboration with VW is very troubling regarding the above. Yesterday a very smart expert in oil was quoted on cnbc (often right) talking about $5.00/gal gas in Kalifornia.

    Performance should be derived from weight savings more than brute HP. In a couple years the cayenne will be a ball and chain on Porsche AG.

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    Quote:
    racerx said:
    $5.00/gal gas in Kalifornia.




    That would still be less to what we're paying here in eurpoe today

    Gregor

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    Quote:
    Gregor said:
    Quote:
    racerx said:
    $5.00/gal gas in Kalifornia.




    That would still be less to what we're paying here in eurpoe today

    Gregor



    Friend of mine who lives in Italy told the other day that if you convert liters to gallons it almost comes up to $14 a galon in Italy . So I never complain about the gas price anymore .

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:


    Friend of mine who lives in Italy told the other day that if you convert liters to gallons it almost comes up to $14 a galon in Italy . So I never complain about the gas price anymore .


    Don't know where your friend has got THAT number from but, according to my calculation, the price for 4.546 Liters of premium gas in Italy is about US$5.70 now. I used a $/Euro xchange rate of .8293.

    Gregor

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    Quote:
    Gregor said:
    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:


    Friend of mine who lives in Italy told the other day that if you convert liters to gallons it almost comes up to $14 a galon in Italy . So I never complain about the gas price anymore .


    Don't know where your friend has got THAT number from but, according to my calculation, the price for 4.546 Liters of premium gas in Italy is about US$5.70 now. I used a $/Euro xchange rate of .8293.

    Gregor



    That's still twice as much as we pay in the states. I agree with, Ron, Americans whine too much about gas prices.

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    don't believe the manufacturer's claims on the diesel engines either, according to VW, the touareg v10 is only supposed to consume 12lt's or so per 100km, (rough figures from memory). But is not the case, our touareg v10 consumes 15-17litres per 100km and is almost at 20lt/100km when driving flat out...

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    6$ a gallon here, I pay 45 Euro of gas every 300km (55$ every 200miles)...

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    don't believe the manufacturer's claims on the diesel engines either, according to VW, the touareg v10 is only supposed to consume 12lt's or so per 100km, (rough figures from memory). But is not the case, our touareg v10 consumes 15-17litres per 100km and is almost at 20lt/100km when driving flat out...


    That's insane! My old 80's Volvo Turbo wagon winter-beater gets 16 ltrs/100km and it's never not on full boost (I try to drive the crap out of it, but with 265,000 km's and never had a thing done to it but change the oil it just won't die...) In fact my 4.6ltr Range Rover gets better gas economy than you're getting...

    As for the panemara, I agree, light would be nice, but the M5 isn't light and it's still really really fast. That kind of performance is what is needed.

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    Gregor, in America, everything is bigger... so, maybe his friend calculated with a bigger gallon?
    -Joost-

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    hahaha thats funny

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Good find Gary, thanks

    However the news are quite disturbing for me, I new it was going to happen but... a Porsche Sedan ... second collaborative venture with Volkswagen

    agreed...Porsche...sedan? Doesn't go together

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    6$ a gallon here, I pay 45 Euro of gas every 300km (55$ every 200miles)...

    WOW its about 2.00 here in Texas sometimes more and sometimes less...

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    Quote:
    Joost said:
    Gregor, in America, everything is bigger... so, maybe his friend calculated with a bigger gallon?
    -Joost-



    Maybe its a "Texas Style" Gallon :grin

    Re: Porsche Could Announce Panamera Super-Sedan This Week

    Quote:
    Maybe its a "Texas Style" Gallon




    Well yes, very possibly so, but a "Texas Style" Gallon is actually smaller than the ROW gallon.

    Evidence the Texas "Ten Gallon Hat" which would actually hold no more than 4 ROW gallons.

     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 5/15/24 8:44 AM
    art.italy
    818608 1808
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 4/7/24 11:48 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    455118 565
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 3/12/24 8:28 AM
    DJM48
    276090 323
    Porsche Sticky The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche 1/30/24 9:18 AM
    RCA
    93508 45
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift 3/15/24 1:23 PM
    CGX car nut
    11114 50
    Porsche 992 GT3 7/23/23 7:01 PM
    Grant
    977890 3868
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 2/1/24 7:01 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    896758 1364
    Porsche GT4RS 4/21/24 11:50 AM
    mcdelaug
    413084 1454
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 2/10/24 4:43 PM
    nberry
    407436 1526
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 12/13/23 2:48 PM
    CGX car nut
    394381 2401
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 5/12/24 6:23 PM
    blueflame
    296103 669
    Porsche Collected my 997 GTS today 10/19/23 7:06 PM
    CGX car nut
     
     
     
     
     
    272092 812
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/30/23 6:59 PM
    mcdelaug
    245990 346
    Others Corvette C8 10/16/23 3:24 PM
    Enmanuel
    224450 488
    Others Gordon Murray - T.50 11/22/23 10:27 AM
    mcdelaug
    175374 387
    Motor Sp. 2023 Formula One 12/19/23 5:38 AM
    WhoopsyM
    125799 685
    BMW M 2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now 12/29/23 9:04 AM
    RCA
    125632 303
    Porsche 2022 992 Safari Model 3/7/24 4:22 PM
    WhoopsyM
    88052 239
    AMG Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758 2/23/24 10:03 PM
    blueflame
    77764 297
    Porsche 992 GT3 RS 3/3/24 7:22 PM
    WhoopsyM
    57473 314
    Motor Sp. Porsche 963 5/18/24 9:44 PM
    Wonderbar
    29704 249
    Ferrari Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6) 1/21/24 4:29 PM
    GT-Boy
    23550 103
    BMW M 2022 BMW M5 CS 4/8/24 1:43 PM
    Ferdie
    22283 140
    AMG G63 sold out 9/15/23 7:38 PM
    Nico997
    18317 120
    AMG [2022] Mercedes-AMG SL 4/23/24 1:24 PM
    RCA
    17683 225
    Porsche Porsche Mission X Hypercar 12/3/23 8:52 AM
    996FourEss
    12680 63
    Porsche 911 S/T 10/10/23 8:53 AM
    RCA
    11477 55
    Others Tesla thread N°3 5/1/24 11:09 PM
    CGX car nut
    10156 93
    Motor Sp. Formula 1 2024!! 6/15/24 11:25 AM
    Anderson
    10053 217
    Porsche Macan EV 1/25/24 9:10 AM
    RCA
    8879 28
    102 items found, displaying 1 to 30.