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    audio options

    Hi all, I have been going over my c2s option card and am on the fence as to what I should do with the audio system. How good is the upgraded system from porsche? My boxster had the upgraded bose system and quite frankly it was pretty bad. The question is should I get the standard stereo and lose a speaker when I get it overhauled with aftermarket speakers/amp etc. or just spend that same 1300 or so on the porsche bose system? Thanks!

    Re: audio options

    if you want better sound, save your money and do it aftermarket, but that will really bring down the value of your car, most things that aren't OEM will always bring down the value of the car.

    Re: audio options

    GO BOSE SYSTEM

    Re: audio options

    Quote:
    ctm said:
    GO BOSE SYSTEM



    yup... it's worth it.

    Clarity when the top is up or down [if you're in cab] although for the me the sound at 4500rpms is still better than any system.


    Re: audio options

    I am very happy with my Bose system. It gets the job done, and my new Audioslave CD cranks in it. It's good enough. The standard system is whimpy, good for all those free-form Jazz geeks and Boxcar Willy fans out there. I'm satisfied with my Bose system, and I listed fairly LLOOUD.

    Re: audio options

    I'm happy with the Bose, its sounds great for an OEM system. Plus the peace of mind about not worrying about someone hacking up the electronics is priceless.

    Re: audio options

    All highs...no lows...thats BOSE
    after working in the retail high-end home audio segment, i can confidently say that Bose pales in comparison compared to the quality you could get from an aftermarket system. If anything, keep all the OEM components and have them reinstalled when selling the car. And as far as hacking up your precious porsche...any reputable shop will have a collection of installs that they've completed. As long as you go to a reputable shop that has good references...then i wouldn't worry about it

    Re: audio options

    My Bose has some great sounding lows, not giant house rattling bass, but who wants that in a Porsche?

    Re: audio options

    Quote:
    sdy284 said:
    All highs...no lows...thats BOSE


    Not to be too much of an elitist snob, but I agree. However, not everyone is looking for the audiophile experience, as witnessed by BOSE Corp. sales numbers. I think a lot of people want the best factory sound they can get and are traumatized by the thought of having the interior of their car disassembled. I have had insane systems installed in several cars; it is PAINFUL to see the car in the middle of the process.

    That being said, if anyone in California wants a system done I have a perfectionist friend who is the best of the best; he does amazing systems and is a Porsche owner. He used his own 996 as a show car; this car probably had at least $60-75K in electronics and installation.

    Despite that I ordered the BOSE system on my car, as I consider the stereo in a 997 to be for occasional background noise and NAV system commands. PSE will be the primary sound system in my car...

    Re: audio options

    Quote:
    Texas911 said:
    My Bose has some great sounding lows, not giant house rattling bass, but who wants that in a Porsche?



    but i guarantee you some nice aftermarket stuff would sound 100% better..how much is the bose option out of curiosity

    Re: audio options

    I'm not an audiophile. In fact I RARELY listen to radio or CD's when driving (except on VERY long trips). How bad is the stock (non Bose) stereo? I normally listen to classical most of the time...

    Re: audio options

    get the bose anyway at if you need the sound you have it!

    Re: audio options

    Dave, "bad" is a relative term. For me, the stock system is horrendous. For occassional not-so-loud classical, you'll be fine with it. When I want to relax, it's Steely Dan or Neil Young, in which case I'm still cranking the volume. I feel that my Bose system serves up enough low-punch to suit my tastes. I've been in and around high-end aftermarket systems, and I know they can sound amazing. But as others here have said, not at the expense of tearing all my interior out, no matter how expert the expert. For a factory system, it's just fine. Sometimes, and call me crazy, over-clarity is like fingernails on a chalkboard. Too piercing. This is a shot in the dark theory, but it's not impossible to believe that the Bose system is engineered with INTENTIONAL compromises to enhance listening pleasure, and not optimize precise sound reproducion. I've got to believe that sound engineering is part art, part science. Some audiophiles are heavy on the science side, and others lean toward the other. Different concert venues come to mind, when the room creates an incredibly soothing sound, although the sound is hardly accurate to what is emmitting from the instruments and electronics. Hope I haven't opened up a can of worms.

    Re: audio options

    Quote:
    sdy284 said:
    but i guarantee you some nice aftermarket stuff would sound 100% better..how much is the bose option out of curiosity



    The Bose is $1390.00

    Phil

    Re: audio options

    Quote:
    Dave_986S said:
    I'm not an audiophile. In fact I RARELY listen to radio or CD's when driving (except on VERY long trips). How bad is the stock (non Bose) stereo? I normally listen to classical most of the time...



    For me the included system was fine. I know I will be accused of having a tin ear, but in my 997S cab the standard system suits my needs. It is much better than the High Fi option in previous Porsches. I do know and appreciate good sound, my home system cost over $30k.

    I have not heard the Bose system so I cannot comment on it. I suspect some of the Bose owners who are knocking the standard system have not heard it either.

    The cab is not the ideal place to listen to music. I have my top down whenever possible. The sound system is used primarily as background sound. With the top down while driving if I have it loud enough to hear it with some degree of fidelity, it would be loud enough for everyone within 300 feet to hear it also.

    I enjoy the sound from the engine so much that I tend to keep the radio volume low. When I do have the top up and I'm going down the highway and am ready for some sounds, the standard system is pretty decent. Honestly, it sounds as good as the Bose system in my wife's S class Mercedes.

    Phil

    Re: audio options

    FWIW, I have been a high end audio nut for 23 years (including selling it for a number of years while in college, graduate and law schools), my current home system costs every penny as much as my 997S, and I hate Bose home audio. Having said that, I think the Bose system is pretty decent for a car where the audio system is not the focus of the car. It is certainly light years ahead of the premium audio system in my old 1999 996, which just sucked. In fact, it does have reasonably extended and pretty tight low end, its just that unless the car is moving slowly, it gets lost in the noise floor, which is pretty high. To overcome that problem would probably require significant acoustic insulation or unnaturally loud bass. One could no doubt achieve improved sound, but as others have noted, it would involve a fair amount of modification to your new car. I prefer not to do that to my new porsche.

    Re: audio options

    The Bose system is one of the better OEM systems out there, but you can do MUCH better after-market. I was considering doing this in a Boxster, but it makes more sense in a 911. If you wanted top of the line, pick up an Alpine F1 DVD-Audio Head Unit, the accompanying F1 DSP (or for you home audio fans, the pre-amp), the F1 Amplifier, and an integrated Alpine screen. Pair this with Focal Utopia Be drivers or Dynaudio drivers and you will have a system that no one can mess with. For those of you that don't know these brands - they are some of the best speaker manufacturers in the world - they manufacture their own drivers, and just to give you an idea, their home speakers can range into the 100,000+ range (Dynaudio Evidence in particular). This will blow away the "BLOSE" stock OEM set-up. Bose has always had a problem with exaggerated midrange, muted highs, and average bass (they don't call anything they have subwoofers, always "bass modules" since they don't truly reach the low end (on their acoustimass home systems, they usually cut off at 55 Hz, which is way too high a cut off for a subwoofer).

    If you are interested in the AudioPilot feature, keep in mind that Alpine has a real-time EQ feature (F1 motorized screen only), and also Alpine Navi kills the PCM system. If you are worried about ruining the OEM look. you need a proven specialist such as my personal favorite here in NY, AI Design (www.aidesign.com). Many celebrities and CEO's send their vehicles here cause they really do know how to do installations. Check their website for proof.

    Re: audio options

    Quote:
    sdy284 said:
    Quote:
    Texas911 said:
    My Bose has some great sounding lows, not giant house rattling bass, but who wants that in a Porsche?



    but i guarantee you some nice aftermarket stuff would sound 100% better..how much is the bose option out of curiosity



    The improved sound clarity would not be appreciated when at the same time your looking at butcher marks on the interior , these fitters dont give a t##s..

    Not recommended..

    throt.

    Re: audio options

    BOSE is a good factory sound system, but its stilt that, a "factory" system which are substandard compared to the aftermarket level. I have been a fan of car audio for long and will be upgrading my 997's stereo system just like I did with my 996. Once you get used to higher end aftermarket systems the factory ones have too many flaws and deficits its irritating. Never had a factory stereo for long in any of my cars. If you have not listened to aftermarket systems, the BOSE will sound flawless becuase you have no reference to compare with. Also the factory systems are overproced for the sound they offer. So it depends on the person wether the BOSE is good enough or not.

    The problem now is the fiber optic MOST bus of the 997, you cannot change the head unit, so you are limited to the stock one. However I'm hoping that installing an amplifier is posible with the 997, and then will install Focal drivers doors and dash, with a pair of 10" subwoofers in a sealed enclosure made of MDF and fiberglass for a custom and discrete fit behind the rear seats. Tomorrow I will be going over to my audio installer and see what we can do, especially if the amp is posible.

    As always, if you go aftermarket, you need to make sure the installer is a pro! I can't enforce enough how important that is. I'm lucky I have one I know for years now that is a genius with his ears and also with his hands (flawless quality, the way the custom work is done, the way the cabeling is done, never a scratch or anything, etc). He has won many prizes and is now a judge in competitions.

    Re: audio options

    Thank you all for your ideas, I am in La Jolla, CA and have heard great things about the guys at La Jolla audio, ie that they work on $$cars and are sensitive to that. When I spoke with them, they actually said that I could use a different head unit that also incorporated a DVD/GPS system, but once the head unit is changed it definately looses the OEM look and I dont think that I want to do that. Besides, how can you watch a dvd going Mach2 with your hair on fire! I think that I will stick with the upgraded Bose system and if it makes my ears bleed then I will revisit the issue. Thanks!

    Re: audio options

    I have seen many set-ups on the 997 with non-OEM head units. As I mentioned above, Alpine F1 Status seems to be the head-unit of choice for the 911's at AI Design. They do a damn good job making all your equipment look factory standard. Then again, they also charge $125 an hour for labor. If you want a new head-unit in yours, I suggest you give them a ring (website posted above on my previous post). When I buy my 911, I'll probably bring it to them as I will with my 987. :-D

    Re: audio options

    How did they manage to plug the aftremarket head unit to the fiber optics bus? Porsche post-2002 911's ("MOST" cars) don't even have a compatible iPod connection.

    Re: audio options

    I do not know how, I didn't really ask. All I know is that they have created amazing set-ups for 997s, especially the Alpine F1 set-ups, they truly are stunning. I don't think you can get anything that would allow an iPod connection with the standard head unit, but you can definitely do it on most Alpines (and other brands as well).

    I may just keep the Bose system in my 987 and spend the money elsewhere, like an Revo ECU upgrade, and the cloaking package AI does for you for $4000 all inclusive of labor...integrated Valentine One in the rear view mirror (including the indicators), and K40 laser jammers for the front and rear. Oh, and of course the 3M Scotchgard clear coat.

    I suggest you call them up and ask them (I know you're in Spain, but still). As you see from their site, they know what they are doing and not even MOST can keep them from making our custom high-end electronics dreams come true...
    :-D

    Re: audio options

    thanks, will check it out

    Re: audio options

    Frankly, and I note at the outset that this is just my opinion and reasonable men can differ on this stuff, I agree with PS CA above and think the stock system is fine. With the beautious noise coming from the engine, who cares about the sound system. I am not an audiophile, and the basic system in my 997C2S coupe is fine, music sounds good with the windows closed. Open the windows and the sunroof, and the music becomes secondary and no system, no matter how high end, is going to sound good over the wind noise. My advice is save the money on the audio system and get some real "go fast" performance options instead, adaptive seats or something.

    have fun.

    Re: audio options

    Stereo sound and exhaust sound and not substitutes of one another. One has nothing to do with the other. When you are enjoying the car driving spiritedly on a mountain road or highway you turn down/off the stereo and listen to the car. When you are stuck in a traffic jam who wants to listen to the engine idle? instead of relaxing to a classical o blues CD? ... or in a cogested highway sector, who enjoys the monotonous sound of the engine at constant speeds instead of enjoying your favorite driving music? thats what the stereo is for, they are not mutually exclusive. There is a time and place for each. If we were talking about a track car then it would be logical, but not for daily driver cars like these then its comical to try to substitute the exhaust for the stereo. You can make the same argument about auto-tranny option, convertible tops, PASM suspension, cruise control, etc.

    And precicely for the reason that the acoustics of the car when in motion are far form ideal, its were a better sound system is able to overcome the enviromental noise much more decently than factory systems and are more needed if you like to listen to music. We can't make the car sound like our living room but we can make them sound fairly decent in most situations we encounter in our cars, for the same reason we buy >300HP cars with stiff suspensions for street driving when we can't make them go as fast as in a track, but even though we can't take them to the limit we do at the btrack we can still enjoy them in the street. Same with the car stereo. Most people don't know how good a stereo in a car can sound. But in the end it depends on how demanding the ear of the driver is wether its worthwhile or not to go factory or aftermarket or how much you like to listen to music, some people just listen to talk radio for which a stock stereo would be fine.
    I got the Porsche Sport Exhaust for when I'm "driving" and will upgrade to an aftermarket stereo for whem I'm not. The best of both worlds, but I can see why others can be just as happy from a factory stereo and would better spend the money on another option.

    Re: audio options

    Carlos,

    I can only speak for myself and my situation. I have a cab. A cab is not a good environment in which to enjoy fine sounds. While it is fairly quiet for a convertible, it is a little noisy inside at highway speeds. Between the road noise and noise that filters in through the cloth top it is a less than perfect listening environment. And since I live in California I have the top down most of the time. No system can sound good at highway speeds with the top down. With the top down, if I have it loud enough to enjoy high fidelity sounds when driving on city streets, everyone within 300 feet of me will also be listening to my music.

    If I had a coupe I would have ordered the Bose system. I just didn't see the reason to buy it with a cab.

    Phil

    Re: audio options

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Stereo sound and exhaust sound and not substitutes of one another. One has nothing to do with the other. When you are enjoying the car driving spiritedly on a mountain road or highway you turn down/off the stereo and listen to the car. When you are stuck in a traffic jam who wants to listen to the engine idle? instead of relaxing to a classical o blues CD? ... or in a cogested highway sector, who enjoys the monotonous sound of the engine at constant speeds instead of enjoying your favorite driving music? thats what the stereo is for, they are not mutually exclusive. There is a time and place for each. If we were talking about a track car then it would be logical, but not for daily driver cars like these then its comical to try to substitute the exhaust for the stereo. You can make the same argument about auto-tranny option, convertible tops, PASM suspension, cruise control, etc.

    And precicely for the reason that the acoustics of the car when in motion are far form ideal, its were a better sound system is able to overcome the enviromental noise much more decently than factory systems and are more needed if you like to listen to music. We can't make the car sound like our living room but we can make them sound fairly decent in most situations we encounter in our cars, for the same reason we buy >300HP cars with stiff suspensions for street driving when we can't make them go as fast as in a track, but even though we can't take them to the limit we do at the btrack we can still enjoy them in the street. Same with the car stereo. Most people don't know how good a stereo in a car can sound. But in the end it depends on how demanding the ear of the driver is wether its worthwhile or not to go factory or aftermarket or how much you like to listen to music, some people just listen to talk radio for which a stock stereo would be fine.
    I got the Porsche Sport Exhaust for when I'm "driving" and will upgrade to an aftermarket stereo for whem I'm not. The best of both worlds, but I can see why others can be just as happy from a factory stereo and would better spend the money on another option.



    Carlos sets the record straight... AGAIN!!


    Re: audio options

    Quote:
    Most people don't know how good a stereo in a car can sound.



    Actually most people do, but don't want to mess up their fragile electronics for some Frankenstiened system that uses high gain inputs (speaker level) from the amplified headunit, since its impossible to connect to the stock head unit digitally. So unless you rip out all of the sound system (and I've yet to see one) and start from scratch (an do away with PCM), you audiofiles are hearing compromised sounds from the source. That's what I find ironic.

    Re: audio options

    PS CA, a cab is a diffrent matter, I agree, the enviromental noise with the top down is just too much at higher speeds.
    But I had a cab (M3) that may have surprised you, it had over 500RMS Watts of power (can't remember the exact figure, just that is was more then 500) and 14 speakers incluiding from subwoofers to tweeters even with the top down you could enjoy the music (of course not as much as the top down) at the expense of tremendous volume levels


    Quote:
    Texas911 said:
    Quote:
    Most people don't know how good a stereo in a car can sound.



    Actually most people do, but don't want to mess up their fragile electronics for some Frankenstiened system that uses high gain inputs (speaker level) from the amplified headunit, since its impossible to connect to the stock head unit digitally. So unless you rip out all of the sound system (and I've yet to see one) and start from scratch (an do away with PCM), you audiofiles are hearing compromised sounds from the source. That's what I find ironic.



    OK, I can refrase it: most people don't know how good the sound system of the 911 can sound without changing the headunit. Replacing the speakers with decent ones, adding a better and more powerful amplification, and adding an adecuate subwoofer enclosure, can already make a world of difference, literally.

     
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